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Maksim

"Legality" of flying out of JFK as a NJ resident with a handgun

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I try not to check a handgun anymore. I just mail it to myself to where i am going. Then mail it back when returning.

 

Paul, last I checked, it was illegal to mail a handgun to yourself at a hotel or what not. Correct? Or is this FFL? I can be totally wrong here.

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I am so glad I am out of the airports now. Where I am if you have a gun it's illegal..either state. Makes it easier and I don't have to worry about jamming some innocent person up because my bosses and the legal system want to err on the side of caution.

 

This is one thing people overlook in their desire to increase civilian carry. In places like PA it can be a PITA for police because just about everybody can carry a gun so the cops can't simply perform a felony stop or start shooting them because they see a gun.

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I appreciate everyone's effort to offer advice on this matter. Ultimately I decided to follow my own research.. A sincere thanks to all who offered to help...

 

I am writing this from Terminal 4 at JFK waiting to board a U.S. Airways flight. I checked in 2 handguns without issue and the whole process although cumbersome was about what I expected. I would do it again but not without double checking everything... I have no doubt if my ducks were not in order I would not have been cut any breaks.

 

For those that are interested below is a walk through and my experience...

 

I had my Ruger LCP .380 and NAA Mini .22WMR field stripped in a Nano Vault NV300. In the case also are copies of my Pistol Purchase Permit for both guns. In my wallet i have my NJ Firearms ID card, FL CCW, and the receipt from the Luk Oil Gas station down the road from my house as well and a Cash receipt from GW bridge and Throgsneck bridge ( I usually pay via EZ Pass but wanted the receipt today to show direct travel to the airport.

 

I walked up to the checkin counter at U.S. Airway and printed out my boarding pass, I handed it to the agent and said I needed to checkin an unloaded firearm. He instructed me to go to the supervisor. The supervise said the TA Police had to verify all handguns so I had to wait for them to come. While waiting I asked how often non police check in hand guns and he said only once or twice per month at his counter.

 

Officer R. Thompson Badge 813 arrived after a 15minute wait. He asked if i was LEO. When i said no his demeanor became serious. He checked my FID and drivers Lic, then asked to see the weapons and confirmed they were not loaded. He asked where I was traveling, then wrote down the make and model of my guns in his book as well as my contact information and asked for my phone number.

 

The checkin agent also viewed the firearms were not loaded and put a red label in the case before I closed it.

As I was placing the gun case back in my suitcase I asked the agent if he need to see the ammo as no one had ask about it... As I was reaching in my suite case the agent said no as long at it was packed separately. For some reason this caught the attention of officer Thompson who reached for the lid of my luggage and forced it open to take his own look....

 

Officer Thompson then handed me over to another officer and the three of us walked over to a TSA X-ray machine. My bag was to big for the machine I was escorted to a back room when my back was hand searched... They did not reopen the gun case... Once they completed TSA gave the suite case back to the checkin agent who went walking off thru the airport with my gun in tow.. I was lead to the front of the security screening checkin line before being allowed in the secure area to my gate.. The whole process was about 30 minutes.

 

TSA Searching my bag

 

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Officer Thompson

 

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I appreciate everyone's effort to offer advice on this matter. Ultimately I decided to follow my own research.. A sincere thanks to all who offered to help...

 

I am writing this from Terminal 4 at JFK waiting to board a U.S. Airways flight. I checked in 2 handguns without issue and the whole process although cumbersome was about what I expected. I would do it again but not without double checking everything... I have no doubt if my ducks were not in order I would not have been cut any breaks.

 

For those that are interested below is a walk through and my experience...

 

I had my Ruger LCP .380 and NAA Mini .22WMR field stripped in a Nano Vault NV300. In the case also are copies of my Pistol Purchase Permit for both guns. In my wallet i have my NJ Firearms ID card, FL CCW, and the receipt from the Luk Oil Gas station down the road from my house as well and a Cash receipt from GW bridge and Throgsneck bridge ( I usually pay via EZ Pass but wanted the receipt today to show direct travel to the airport.

 

I walked up to the checkin counter at U.S. Airway and printed out my boarding pass, I handed it to the agent and said I needed to checkin an unloaded firearm. He instructed me to go to the supervisor. The supervise said the TA Police had to verify all handguns so I had to wait for them to come. While waiting I asked how often non police check in hand guns and he said only once or twice per month at his counter.

 

Officer R. Thompson Badge 813 arrived after a 15minute wait. He asked if i was LEO. When i said no his demeanor became serious. He checked my FID and drivers Lic, then asked to see the weapons and confirmed they were not loaded. He asked where I was traveling, then wrote down the make and model of my guns in his book as well as my contact information and asked for my phone number.

 

The checkin agent also viewed the firearms were not loaded and put a red label in the case before I closed it.

As I was placing the gun case back in my suitcase I asked the agent if he need to see the ammo as no one had ask about it... As I was reaching in my suite case the agent said no as long at it was packed separately. For some reason this caught the attention of officer Thompson who reached for the lid of my luggage and forced it open to take his own look....

 

Officer Thompson then handed me over to another officer and the three of us walked over to a TSA X-ray machine. My bag was to big for the machine I was escorted to a back room when my back was hand searched... They did not reopen the gun case... Once they completed TSA gave the suite case back to the checkin agent who went walking off thru the airport with my gun in tow.. I was lead to the front of the security screening checkin line before being allowed in the secure area to my gate.. The whole process was about 30 minutes.

 

23924688.jpg

 

Seriously though, good for you and thanks for posting!

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Not sure why you would mention the ammo after you were cleared to go. What if you had done some minor thing wrong; or if Officer Thompson just was not pleased with how you had it packaged? Would have sucked being detained further (or worse) after you had already been cleared.

 

In any event, nice work. And as 67gtonut notes, you will be amazed to see how casually your check-in is handled on your return from Free America.

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Because I knew I was being taken to X-ray next with the Police in tow... I did not want any surprises.... Not to mention I had a case of the nervous blabber mouth.

 

I have two more airport checkins on my trip. One in Reno Nevada and lastly in Houston, Tx... Something tell me not police will be called unless there is an issue.

 

Sitting on Tarmac in Phonix waiting for connecting flight to take off. I hope my bag made it on... I barely made it myself...

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I just completed my last checkin in Houston, TX and yesterday flew out of Reno Nevada. Reno had me sign an unloaded vouched , the called TSA who did a very cursory check of my back in the back room and had me place the unloaded vouched nest to the locked gun safe. Never asked to see the gun. Took 5-10 minutes. Houston had me sign the unloaded vouched and then said throw it in thee bag. No TSA search... Took all of 30 seconds...

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Do you now realize what a bad decision it was to fly out of JFK? I hope that prisoner processing station is destroyed by a tsunami.

 

I would not say bad decision...I would advise It is not for the novice and extra precaution certainly needs to be made to ensure all ducks are in order as they will not give you a legal inch.. So that alone creates extra risk... I would try to fly out of anyplace else first but I would do it again...

 

I also think the "General Advice NOT to do it is a good policy".

 

But if no one does it the situation has no chance of improvement.

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I would not say bad decision...I would advise It is not for the novice and extra precaution certainly needs to be made to ensure all ducks are in order as they will not give you a legal inch.. So that alone creates extra risk... I would try to fly out of anyplace else first but I would do it again...

 

I also think the "General Advice NOT to do it is a good policy".

 

But if no one does it the situation has no chance of improvement.

 

OK, got it. I hope you don't want me to do it to provide a chance of improvement.

 

Thugs check you up and down and verify your FID, which has NOTHING to do with handguns. And, they say they only get one or two of your ass a month, so they certainly don't know what an FID is to start with. What would they do if I showed up since I don't have an FID? You admit they probably would have jacked you up if you didn't have your ducks in a row. And you kept your toll receipts just in case they put you in jail for having an unregistered handgun in NY so your lawyer might be able to use it if you go to trial. I'm sorry, but going about worried about going to prison is not my thing.

 

I'd say you indeed made a very, very bad decision flying out of JFK.

 

Would you advise me to do it? Or just..who?

 

This is insanity.

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You seem informed enough to make your own decision. It is not for everyone...

 

 

For some their support of 2A ends at a strongly worded message board post, for others that is where it begins... It is not for me to judge your reasons...

 

Flying out of JFK is support for the 2A? I think giving Bloomburg a foot massage is better support for the 2A.

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Not being intimidated to exercise our dwindling Gun Rights just because TSA does not like it is supporting our 2A. (Use them or loose them)

 

My trip involved a 10 hour drive thru the Nevada Desert at night by myself so being armed was well worth the concern/stress of flying out of JFK. Sure Officer Thompson had a serious demeanor and I had to wait 10-15 minutes but at no time did I feel threatened or intimidated. He was professional at all times.

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Not being intimidated to exercise our dwindling Gun Rights just because TSA does not like it is supporting our 2A. (Use them or loose them)My trip involved a 10 hour drive thru the Nevada Desert at night by myself so being armed was well worth the concern/stress of flying out of JFK. Sure Officer Thompson had a serious demeanor  and I had to wait 10-15 minutes but at no time did I feel threatened or intimidated.  He was professional at all times.
Maybe I'm missing something here, but what in the world does the TSA have to do with this entire episode,  beside checking to make sure you are not putting a loaded weapon on board? You jumped through self-imposed hoops to ensure that NY's draconian firearm laws and a potentially under-informed PA police force wouldn't throw you in the hoosegow for traveling into that state carrying a legal firearm, yet ultimately toss in the TSA as an institutional bad guy.Keep the focus on the ones who really want to take your rights away, namely Bloomberg and his cohorts in law enforcement.Sent from my Kindle Fire using Tapatalk 2

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After reading all that, it seems the most dangerous part of your trip was trying to bring a gun through JFK, not driving through the desert at night. I'd take my chances over the very low possibility of danger in the desert, than the very likely possibility of felony charges in NY.

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Maybe I'm missing something here, but what in the world does the TSA have to do with this entire episode, beside checking to make sure you are not putting a loaded weapon on board? You jumped through self-imposed hoops to ensure that NY's draconian firearm laws and a potentially under-informed PA police force wouldn't throw you in the hoosegow for traveling into that state carrying a legal firearm, yet ultimately toss in the TSA as an institutional bad guy.Keep the focus on the ones who really want to take your rights away, namely Bloomberg and his cohorts in law enforcement.Sent from my Kindle Fire using Tapatalk 2

 

Meant to say PA not TSA as in Port Authority Police..

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Not being intimidated to exercise our dwindling Gun Rights just because TSA does not like it is supporting our 2A. (Use them or loose them)

 

My trip involved a 10 hour drive thru the Nevada Desert at night by myself so being armed was well worth the concern/stress of flying out of JFK. Sure Officer Thompson had a serious demeanor and I had to wait 10-15 minutes but at no time did I feel threatened or intimidated. He was professional at all times.

 

I think the point being made is that officer Thompson should never have been involved in the first place, so his professionalism is irrelevant.

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Not being intimidated to exercise our dwindling Gun Rights just because TSA does not like it is supporting our 2A. (Use them or loose them)

 

My trip involved a 10 hour drive thru the Nevada Desert at night by myself so being armed was well worth the concern/stress of flying out of JFK. Sure Officer Thompson had a serious demeanor and I had to wait 10-15 minutes but at no time did I feel threatened or intimidated. He was professional at all times.

 

I fly all the time with firearms. It has nothing to do with being intimidated. It's just stupid to choose to fly out of JFK. That's like saying you should buy your fingerprint cards through a donation to the Brady organization to prove they can't intimidate you. Maybe I should fill out the form to voluntarily register all my firearms in NJ to prove they can't intimidate me.

 

BTW - TSA doesn't give a monkeyfuck. You were treated the way you were because you choose to give your money to NY scumbags and risk getting jacked up instead of flying out of an airport in America. Not because of TSA.

 

You got raped. And you paid them for it. And now you say it was for some sort of greater good. Maybe you liked it. Maybe this will increase your resolve to choose to do more business with the idiots at JFK.

 

 

 

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The point here is very simple and has gotten severely off track by outdated opinions, paranoid fears and anti Bloomberg agendas. Jersey residents are not getting thrown into jail for showing up at NY airports with handguns.

 

If you are confident in your knowledge of the laws involved and stay well inside them you can travel thru JFK safely. Period end of story.

 

If I need to travel with firearms in the future JFK is an option.

 

There has been no first hand knowledge offered on the issue here or any other forum I could find with any recent /relevant information.

 

Now you know the facts from the field. The rest can offer there arm chair opinions without me. Signing off this post..

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The point here is very simple and has gotten severely off track by outdated opinions, paranoid fears and anti Bloomberg agendas. Jersey residents are not getting thrown into jail for showing up at NY airports with handguns.

 

If you are confident in your knowledge of the laws involved and stay well inside them you can travel thru JFK safely. Period end of story.

 

If I need to travel with firearms in the future JFK is an option.

 

There has been no first hand knowledge offered on the issue here or any other forum I could find with any recent /relevant information.

 

Now you know the facts from the field. The rest can offer there arm chair opinions without me. Signing off this post..

 

I certainly appreciate your report. Especially your warning:

 

 

 

I would not say bad decision...I would advise It is not for the novice and extra precaution certainly needs to be made to ensure all ducks are in order as they will not give you a legal inch.. So that alone creates extra risk... I would try to fly out of anyplace else first but I would do it again...

 

I also think the "General Advice NOT to do it is a good policy".

 

I was simply don't agree it's somehow THE pro-2A choice to fly out of JFK.

 

In the remote hope this can be ended on good terms, thanks again for the report.

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Looks like everything went well but the one thing not considered is what if you got stopped by NYPD before you even got to the airport? A car breakdown or a traffic accident or a traffic infraction pull over in the city and if NYPD found out about the pistol you would surely be arrested and jailed no matter how much you were clear with the airport authorities. Not to say that you should not have done it but just keep that in mind. Arguing the FOPA in NYC is pretty precarious because the city court hates to concede federal preemption of their law. Even when people have charges dismissed under FOPA i hear that in the mean time their gun is usually melted down, on top of attorney costs and lost time and heartache. It is worth it to pay more for a ticket out of Newark in my opinion.

 

 

Sent from my DROID2 GLOBAL using Tapatalk 2

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You are a sick man trying this stunt! In NYC of all places! Not worth it in my opinion! Next time you might very well get arrested. If you are not licensed to have them in NYC you are breaking the law and you got away with it this time.

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He didn't break the law, the Firearm Owners Protection Act, a federal law, nullifies any contrary NYC and NYS handgun law with respect to an interstate trip under the supremacy clause of the U.S. Constitution. This is a law that was passed by congress in 1986.

 

The only risk he took here is the risk that the police and court system in New York City and the Port Authority Police would unlawfully arrest him and put him to retaining counsel to extricate himself from improper state prosecution.

 

In other words, the only risk he took was that he might be unlawfully arrested and prosecuted in direct violation of federal law which precisely dictates that he was entitled to do what he did.

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He didn't break the law, the Firearm Owners Protection Act, a federal law, nullifies any contrary NYC and NYS handgun law with respect to an interstate trip under the supremacy clause of the U.S. Constitution. This is a law that was passed by congress in 1986.

 

The only risk he took here is the risk that the police and court system in New York City and the Port Authority Police would unlawfully arrest him and put him to retaining counsel to extricate himself from improper state prosecution.

 

In other words, the only risk he took was that he might be unlawfully arrested and prosecuted in direct violation of federal law which precisely dictates that he was entitled to do what he did.

 

I guess you have not lived in the NJ/NY area long to know that the Port Authority of NJ/NY does not follow FOPA and there are numerous cases of people being arrested at the airports in NY and NJ. And that is enough reason for me not to go to NYC with a handgun.

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I guess you have not lived in the NJ/NY area long to know that the Port Authority of NJ/NY does not follow FOPA and there are numerous cases of people being arrested at the airports in NY and NJ. And that is enough reason for me not to go to NYC with a handgun.

 

Never mind...don't feel like another argument

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