Internatioanl Assignment - Where to store handguns

[SXD9_4891 0]

So I have just accepted an international assignment and will be moving out of the country for 2 years and I’m struggling to figure out what to do with the two hand guns I own. (I don’t currently have any plans to take them with me nor do I think I would be able to.)

 

Currently my FID card has my apartment’s address that I will be moving out of. For anything I would need an US address for I plan to use my parents house which is also in NJ, but a different town.

 

So I’m assuming that if I apply for a change of address to their house I could potentially just keep them locked up there. The challenge with this is I leave in little under 60 days so I’m worked about the paperwork being processed fast enough. The second issue is, I can obviously sign a lease with my parents if I need to, but would that count as my residence if I’m really living out of the country?

 

I’ve also been wondering if it would just make sense to transfer ownership of them to a friend and transfer it back when I get home. I could potentially do this with someone who lives out of state, or with my parents who live in NJ and both have an FID card.

 

I’m not opposed to just safely storing them somewhere without doing the paperwork, as I’m sure it won’t be a problem. However, I really would prefer not to have to worry about something stupid happening.

 

So please let me know what you all think from the legal and practical aspect.

Thanks.

[Sandy 44]

Well , anyone you sell or transfer them to here in NJ would have to have and be willing to use 2 Pistol permits. They would also have to file an exemption to the One Gun A Month law. If they do not have permits handy , it could easily take more than 60 days for them to aquire them..then the wait for the exemption. Nothing is easy in this state.

 

Or have each of your parents apply for PPs ASAP ( if they do not have them ) and sell one gun to each of your parents. Even then , cutting it close if they do not have permits..Some towns take months and months.

 

I don't know about the residence and all of that..hope someone has helpful advice for you!

 

Are the guns irreplaceable or sentimental to you? if not , you could probably sell them here , then just go through the process again and get new handguns when you move back to the States.

[Zed's_Dead 16]

If you sign a lease with your parents that would be for all intents and purposes your domicile, or permanent home. You intend to return to it when you come back from being out of country so there should be no problem leaving your guns there with your parents. There is a longer, more detailed legal discussion of domicile versus residence, but it's probably not necessary to get into at this point.

[Sandy 44]

Oh and if you sell them to someone out of state they have to go through a dealer in that person's state.

[dtown223 12]

safe deposit box?

[Sigman 41]

I would get a change of address at the post office to your parents house and safely store them there. That way your mail goes there. When you come back, just get a change of address to your new address. I don't think you physically need to be there for a legal place of residence. Your place of residence will be your parents house. I don't see a need for a lease. A lot of people move back with their parents with no lease signed.

[mcbethr 42]

I would think that an out of state storage unit would be best. You are going to have to put some of your stuff in storage anyway, and by doing it in PA, you are skirting the transport problems that would be incurred by not transferring your guns to a home, business or gun range.

[mcbethr 42]

safe deposit box?

 

See, one would think so. It would make sense, but a safe deposit box in New Jersey isn't a home, business or gun range. You could probably do it at a bank in PA, but not in New Jersey.

[Melgamatic 66]

I would think that an out of state storage unit would be best.

 

I'm not sure how legal this one is, but it's the one that I'd probably use.

[Zed's_Dead 16]

Out of state storage is a bad idea. What's the legal basis for transporting the guns out of state? If he moves out of his apartment and into his parents house with the intention of returning there from out of the country when his job assignment ends, that's the end of the story. It's legally his domicile in NJ and the guns can stay there. Once he gets a new place to live on his own, the guns can then be moved legally back there.

[Qel Hoth 33]

Out of state storage is a bad idea. What's the legal basis for transporting the guns out of state?

 

FOPA. Firearms are legally possessed at his house (start of journey) and legally possessed at storage unit (end of journey).

[GRIZ 3,369]

It seems to me some people are overthinking this.

 

I would get a change of address at the post office to your parents house and safely store them there. That way your mail goes there. When you come back, just get a change of address to your new address. I don't think you physically need to be there for a legal place of residence. Your place of residence will be your parents house. I don't see a need for a lease. A lot of people move back with their parents with no lease signed.

 

You should do this and also change your driver's license to your parents address. Your parents address is your US home of record. Store them in a lockbox or small safe so your parents have no access. There is no tranfer. Hold on to your FID until you get back and then change it to your new address. This is as long as you trust your parents.

 

I would feel okay with the safe deposit box. I know its not one of the exceptions but neither is bringing a handgun home after you purchase it.

[forayzor 1]

What GRIZ said.

 

Just change your address with the post office, and if you want even on your drivers license, then leave them at your parents house.

[johnp 45]

It seems to me some people are overthinking this.

 

 

 

You should do this and also change your driver's license to your parents address. Your parents address is your US home of record. Store them in a lockbox or small safe so your parents have no access. There is no tranfer. Hold on to your FID until you get back and then change it to your new address. This is as long as you trust your parents.

 

I would feel okay with the safe deposit box. I know its not one of the exceptions but neither is bringing a handgun home after you purchase it.

 

This +1

[M4BGRINGO 139]

Do you want the guns to fell unwanted? My wife has a permit to use right now, three to follow. I have one to use in 21 days, two more after that. Transfer them to a nice home, they will have PLENTY of company, and we can take them out of the safe from time to time for some fresh air!

 

Beyond that, check with a bank about a safe deposit box and if you can store handguns in them. I'd love to see the look on their faces if you walked-in with a bag containing two handguns. Better go there first without them or call!

 

Put a safe in your parents house and stick them in there. Legal? I don't know. If they can't get to them is that an illegal transfer? Who is going to know if they can't open the safe.

 

If you run out of time and options read the first paragraph again.

[Zed's_Dead 16]

FOPA. Firearms are legally possessed at his house (start of journey) and legally possessed at storage unit (end of journey).

 

How are they legally possessed at the end of your journey if your not a state resident? Or don't have a carry permit for that state? Andy why pay 2 years worth of storage when it's much simpler and cleaner to leave them with your parents at your new domicile?

[Qel Hoth 33]

How are they legally possessed at the end of your journey if your not a state resident? Or don't have a carry permit for that state? Andy why pay 2 years worth of storage when it's much simpler and cleaner to leave them with your parents at your new domicile?

 

Because Pennsylvania is part of America. Any adult, who is not a prohibited person, in PA (and 45 or so other states) can legally possess almost any non-NFA firearm so long as it is unloaded. Also in PA, any adult, who is not a prohibited person, can open carry a handgun, rifle, or shotgun without a permit, with the exception of a city of the first class (Philadelphia county).

 

This weekend I was up in the middle of nowhere visiting family. I took both my handguns, a few thousand rounds of .22 and a few hundred of 9mm, and a holster. Walked probably 3/4 of a mile down a public road with a loaded, holstered handgun, including right in front of a PA state trooper, to a spot on public land with a decent backstop and had some fun. Nothing illegal about it once you leave the People's Republic of NJ.

[Zed's_Dead 16]

Because Pennsylvania is part of America. Any adult, who is not a prohibited person, in PA (and 45 or so other states) can legally possess almost any non-NFA firearm so long as it is unloaded. Also in PA, any adult, who is not a prohibited person, can open carry a handgun, rifle, or shotgun without a permit, with the exception of a city of the first class (Philadelphia county).

 

This weekend I was up in the middle of nowhere visiting family. I took both my handguns, a few thousand rounds of .22 and a few hundred of 9mm, and a holster. Walked probably 3/4 of a mile down a public road with a loaded, holstered handgun, including right in front of a PA state trooper, to a spot on public land with a decent backstop and had some fun. Nothing illegal about it once you leave the People's Republic of NJ.

 

Not quite sure what you're saying. Your post seems to imply that anyone who is not prohibited can open carry in PA. Can you point me to the statutory provision that allows it as I go to Pennsylvania often enough that I would consider open carrying. I'm not doubting you, I just want to read it myself before I would consider doing this.

[Qel Hoth 33]

Will get back to you when I get back from work since I'm just on my phone now. But yes, any non prohibited person can OC anywhere in PA except for Philadelphia.

[Sandy 44]

I would like to see that too . I go to PA often. Waiting for my Fla CCW to arrive..but did not know I could OC there.

[johnp 45]

In Pennsylvania, persons 18 years of age and older whom are not prohibited by law from owning firearms may openly carry a handgun in plain sight with no license except in vehicles*, cities of the first class** (Philadelphia) and where prohibited specifically by statute.

Ref.: Title 18, ch.61, Subchapter A. Uniform Firearms Act & Commonwealth v. Ortiz

* Open carry in a vehicle requires a valid PA License to Carry Firearms (LTCF) or a carry license from ANY other state. Ref: Title 18 §6106

** Open carry in a city of the first class requires a valid PA LTCF or a carry license from a reciprocal state. Ref: Title 18 §6108, Title 18 §6106

Carrying concealed (with LTCF) or openly in establishments that serve alcohol is allowed in Pennsylvania.

There is no stipulation in neither the PA code nor case law that a PA LTCF holder must carry concealed. Furthermore, lawful open carry of a firearm is NOT grounds for revocation of a PA LTCF as it is neither an illegal nor dangerous act.

 

http://paopencarry.org/

 

Google is your friend. lol

[Sandy 44]

Cool!

[GRIZ 3,369]

 

 

Not quite sure what you're saying. Your post seems to imply that anyone who is not prohibited can open carry in PA. Can you point me to the statutory provision that allows it as I go to Pennsylvania often enough that I would consider open carrying. I'm not doubting you, I just want to read it myself before I would consider doing this.

 

State laws in almost all cases apply to anyone in that state not just citizens of that state. If you go to a state that allows open carry or concealed carry without a permit it applies to you almost all the time when you are in that state. This is the rule but you have to research for the exceptions.

[Zed's_Dead 16]

Thanks for the help, everyone.

[Qel Hoth 33]

Now that PAFOA is back up, I can finally make that post I said I would last night.

 

http://reference.pafoa.org/statutes/PA/18/II/G/61/A/uniform-firearms-act/ Anything you could ever want to know about gun law in PA.

 

In PA, a "firearm" is defined as "Any pistol or revolver with a barrel length less than 15 inches, any shotgun with a barrel length less than 18 inches or any rifle with a barrel length less than 16 inches, or any pistol, revolver, rifle or shotgun with an overall length of less than 26 inches. The barrel length of a firearm shall be determined by measuring from the muzzle of the barrel to the face of the closed action, bolt or cylinder, whichever is applicable."

 

So, any handgun, SBR, or SBS are considered "firearms" under PA law.

 

Carrying a firearm concealed (or in a car) without a LCTF or reciprocal permit in PA is a misdemeanor, if you could get a permit. If you can't get a permit it is a felony. There is no OC in a vehicle. The moment you step into a vehicle you require a LCTF or an accepted CCW permit.

 

You cannot carry a loaded rifle or shotgun (this does not include SBS or SBR as they are "firearms") in a car unless you are hunting and follow the laws pertaining to that.

 

PA actually defines "loaded," and it means "A firearm is loaded if the firing chamber, the nondetachable magazine or in the case of a revolver, any of the chambers of the cylinder contain ammunition capable of being fired. In the case of a firearm which utilizes a detachable magazine, the term shall mean a magazine suitable for use in said firearm which magazine contains such ammunition and has been inserted in the firearm or is in the same container or, where the container has multiple compartments, the same compartment thereof as the firearm."

 

Revolvers - all chambers empty.

Fixed-magazine fed - no ammo in the weapon

Detachable magazine fed - nothing in the chamber, no loaded mags in same compartment as the weapon that uses them.

 

If a state of emergency has been declared you must have an LCTF to carry open or concealed wherever the state of emergency is in effect.

 

Rifles and shotguns are not considered "firearms" for purposes of PA law, and they may be OC anywhere in PA except for Philadelphia, which requires a LCTF.

 

 

As always, IANAL.