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S2723 Revises Firearm Purchaser ID and handgun purchase permits (Sweeney, Norcross, Weinberg)

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SYNOPSIS

Revises statutes concerning firearms purchaser identification cards and handgun purchase permits; makes handgun purchase permit valid for four years.

 

Huh??? And 2x Huh? for a ton of text to read!

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SYNOPSIS

Revises statutes concerning firearms purchaser identification cards and handgun purchase permits; makes handgun purchase permit valid for four years.

 

Huh??? And 2x Huh? for a ton of text to read!

 

Seriously. 31 pages.

I am still digesting... or maybe that sound is indigestion.

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So just reading through this thing, and noticed.... 2) An embedded permit to purchase a handgun shall remain valid until the holder’s driver’s license or identification card, as the case may be, expires. At that time, the holder may apply to the issuing authority for a renewal. The issuing authority shall investigate to determine whether the applicant is still qualified for a permit to purchase a handgun. The investigation may include, at the discretion of the issuing authority, a criminal background check and other investigations required under N.J.S.2C:58-3, or any portion of those requirements.

 

Under this bill, the current paper firearms purchaser identification card (FPIC) would no longer be issued to New Jersey residents. The information contained on the card would be embedded in the holder’s driver’s license. The transition from the current paper card to having this information embedded in a person’s driver’s license would take place over a four year period, making the transition coincide with the State’s driver’s license renewal cycle.

 

Does the Red and Bold text mean that you no longer need to reapply for a handgun purchasing permit until your license expires, and that you no longer need to get a P2P for each handgun if you have the info embedded in the Drivers license?

 

The local PD's can't even get FID's and P2P's complete in 30 days. How will they ever manage to get background checks done in conjunction with folks renewing their drivers license?

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I go into DMV to renew my driver's license, which is kind of a chore.

 

They say,

- please fill out firearms application

- make appointment go get fingerprinted again.

- provide 2 references' names and addresses. Some DMV may require 4. Some may require references not be family. Some may require references to be notarized.

-mental health background check.

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SYNOPSIS

Revises statutes concerning firearms purchaser identification cards and handgun purchase permits; makes handgun purchase permit valid for four years.

 

Huh??? And 2x Huh? for a ton of text to read!

 

 

Not sure I saw that, but it looks like once you have your FID then it will become part of your license, until you become disqualified. So I don't see where you would have to subject yourself to another background check. That would also be the case for a p2p or PPH. it would remain on your id and in the system, until you become disqualified. Not sure what happens if you have an existing DL with the endorsment of a FID, and want to get a P2P or PPH. Perhaps it becomes one now.

 

Upon receipt of a notice that the applicant is qualified, the chief administrator shall issue that person a driver’s license or identification card with the appropriate information embedded therein.

e. (1) A firearms purchaser identification card shall remain valid, and the affirmation of that fact shall be embedded on a holder’s driver’s license or identification card, and each replacement or renewal thereof, until that person becomes disqualified under the provisions of N.J.S.2C:58-3.

(2) An embedded permit to purchase a handgun shall remain valid until the holder’s driver’s license or identification card, as the case may be, expires. At that time, the holder may apply to the issuing authority for a renewal. The issuing authority shall investigate to determine whether the applicant is still qualified for a permit to purchase a handgun. The investigation may include, at the discretion of the issuing authority, a criminal background check and other investigations required under N.J.S.2C:58-3, or any portion of those requirements.

The issuing authority shall notify the chief administrator whether an applicant is eligible to have an affirmation that he is the holder of a permit to purchase a handgun embedded in his new driver’s license or identification card.

The chief administrator shall issue driver’s licenses and identification cards in accordance with the determinations of the applicant’s issuing authority.

f. Nothing in this section shall be construed to alter in any manner:

(1) the regulatory provisions of N.J.S.2C:58-3 governing the qualifications or eligibility for the issuance of a firearms purchaser identification card or permit to purchase a handgun;

(2) the purposes of P.L.2009,c.186, concerning restrictions on the number of handguns a person may purchase within any 30 day period;

(3) the issuance of firearms purchaser identification cards or permits to purchase a handgun to non-residents of this State;

(4) the initial issuance of firearms purchaser identification cards and any permits to purchase a handgun to residents seeking to purchase a rifle, shotgun, or handgun, as the case may be, but who at the time of their application for a firearms purchaser identification card or permit to purchase a handgun are the holder of a valid driver’s license or identification card that is not embedded

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Tell me I read section 9 wrong. A FPID would be needed to purchase rifle and shotgun ammunition?

 

I think you did. You could have any of the following: the holder of and possesses a valid firearms purchaser identification card, a valid copy of a permit to purchase a handgun, a valid permit to carry a handgun, a valid New Jersey hunting license, or a valid New Jersey driver’s license or identification card embedded with information affirming that the person is the holder of a firearms purchaser identification card or permit to purchase a handgun

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RE. the handgun purchase permit quantity to be embedded..

 

anyone care to take a crack at deciphering this (you can string search it for its location in the doc):

 

i. Restriction on number of firearms person may purchase. Only one handgun shall be purchased or delivered on each paper permit [and no] issued pursuant to this section. No more than one handgun shall be purchased within any 30-day period, regardless of whether the purchaser presents a paper permit or an embedded driver’s license or identification card to the seller or transferor, but this limitation shall not apply to:

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Here's what I took away from all this:

 

Not sure the sponsors realize that the application process for a FPIC or a PPH are the same. As the bill reads - an embedded FPIC would still be good for life (same $5 initial fee). An embedded PPH would only be good for the term of the DL (4 years) and you would need to reapply when renewing the DL (same $2 fee). I do not think that you would be making application through the MVC - it would still be through your local entity and either they would contact and authorize embedding of the FPIC and PPH, or they would give the applicant some form of proof to turn in with their DL renewal.

 

Yes, under this bill an FPIC or PPH would be needed to purchase any type of ammunition. It appears that there is no prohibition on Internet ammo purchases other than it must be shipped to the address of record for the FPIC/PPH. I did find one glitch in that there is still a provision that the FPIC/PPH must be exhibited to the ammunition seller. Easy to do with a paper document - not so much with a magnetically encoded strip - that needs to be changed.

 

There is a training requirement in order to obtain an initial FPIC/PPH with this bill. Written like most states that require training to obtain a CCW.

 

One other glitch that may raise its head - there is a statutorily mandated fee for firearm transfers, as this bill now requires that all firearms transactions go through an FFL. This eliminates FTF sales as a NICS check is now required. I'm sure the intent here was to bring FTF sales to the same level as a transaction undertaken with an FFL on an inventory item. The allowed transfer fee ($15 + NICS) does no specify that it applies only to private transactions - so dealers may be required to charge the $15 + NICS on all sales, unless this is rewritten. This also takes away a dealer's freedom to set his own fees for transfers - not something I'd be happy with as a dealer and may impact interstate sales.

 

There's more, but these are the highpoints.

 

Adios,

 

Pizza Bob

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Can't even sell .22 or give (handgun ammo) except through a dealer

With no visible way to demonstrate you have an "FID," I think online places that now require an FID will just stop selling to us.

 

Also, looks like our current FIDs become invalid when our DLs expire and we then have to reapply. So there's going to be a huge spike in FID applications and many of us will be sitting around, unable to purchase guns or ammo, until the state decides to invest heavily in resources for the process. I. E., never

I can see the lawsuits already. Time for another check to NJ2AS.

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Yes, under this bill an FPIC or PPH would be needed to purchase any type of ammunition. It appears that there is no prohibition on Internet ammo purchases other than it must be shipped to the address of record for the FPIC/PPH. I did find one glitch in that there is still a provision that the FPIC/PPH must be exhibited to the ammunition seller. Easy to do with a paper document - not so much with a magnetically encoded strip - that needs to be changed.

 

Sadly, I don't think that's a bug, it's a "feature."

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I think you did. You could have any of the following: the holder of and possesses a valid firearms purchaser identification card, a valid copy of a permit to purchase a handgun, a valid permit to carry a handgun, a valid New Jersey hunting license, or a valid New Jersey driver’s license or identification card embedded with information affirming that the person is the holder of a firearms purchaser identification card or permit to purchase a handgun

 

Yeah so FPID or hunting license

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Here's what I took away from all this:

 

Not sure the sponsors realize that the application process for a FPIC or a PPH are the same. As the bill reads - an embedded FPIC would still be good for life (same $5 initial fee). An embedded PPH would only be good for the term of the DL (4 years) and you would need to reapply when renewing the DL (same $2 fee). I do not think that you would be making application through the MVC - it would still be through your local entity and either they would contact and authorize embedding of the FPIC and PPH, or they would give the applicant some form of proof to turn in with their DL renewal.

 

Yes, under this bill an FPIC or PPH would be needed to purchase any type of ammunition. It appears that there is no prohibition on Internet ammo purchases other than it must be shipped to the address of record for the FPIC/PPH. I did find one glitch in that there is still a provision that the FPIC/PPH must be exhibited to the ammunition seller. Easy to do with a paper document - not so much with a magnetically encoded strip - that needs to be changed.

 

There is a training requirement in order to obtain an initial FPIC/PPH with this bill. Written like most states that require training to obtain a CCW.

 

One other glitch that may raise its head - there is a statutorily mandated fee for firearm transfers, as this bill now requires that all firearms transactions go through an FFL. This eliminates FTF sales as a NICS check is now required. I'm sure the intent here was to bring FTF sales to the same level as a transaction undertaken with an FFL on an inventory item. The allowed transfer fee ($15 + NICS) does no specify that it applies only to private transactions - so dealers may be required to charge the $15 + NICS on all sales, unless this is rewritten. This also takes away a dealer's freedom to set his own fees for transfers - not something I'd be happy with as a dealer and may impact interstate sales.

 

There's more, but these are the highpoints.

 

Adios,

 

Pizza Bob

 

Thanx for the quicky. I try to read it all but keep drifting away to a beach with palm trees and bikinis.......

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Just noticed this one, regarding dealers:

 

" (3) No firearm or imitation thereof shall be placed in any window or in any other part of the premises where it can be readily seen from the outside"

 

So, now, there needs to be a special room, like the porn section in a video store, so as not to risk offending the sensitive eyes of passers by.

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With no visible way to demonstrate you have an "FID," I think online places that now require an FID will just stop selling to us.

 

Also, looks like our current FIDs become invalid when our DLs expire and we then have to reapply. So there's going to be a huge spike in FID applications and many of us will be sitting around, unable to purchase guns or ammo, until the state decides to invest heavily in resources for the process. I. E., never

I can see the lawsuits already. Time for another check to NJ2AS.

 

Section 2 states that subsequent renewals of your DL will containd the FID until the issuing authority declares you dissqualified

 

 

Either way, can you really see MVS, NJSP, retailers, and Local PD's coming up with asystem that is integrated to the point it needs to be and actually works to where any of this piece of legislation will be effective? I like how they give the whole thing an out if they can't come up with a system. By then these fools who proposed this will be nowhere to be found, but still be patting themselves on the back for thinking they did something good. All the while, the criminals will still be getting guns illegally and using them illegally. Obtaining and using ammunition illegaly. Crime will still be just as high if not higher. What a waste of our tax money.

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Try this one on for size, you have a residence in NJ and in Florida. You have a Florida drivers license, and live in NJ in the spring-summer and in Florida in the winter, you forgot to bring ammo when you come up to NJ from Florida and need to buy ammo in NJ, how do you do that, once your NJ FID expires and you have an out of state drivers license?

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Try this one on for size, you have a residence in NJ and in Florida. You have a Florida drivers license, and live in NJ in the spring-summer and in Florida in the winter, you forgot to bring ammo when you come up to NJ from Florida and need to buy ammo in NJ, how do you do that, once your NJ FID expires and you have an out of state drivers license?

 

You get hosed.

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Drive to PA

 

Try this one on for size, you have a residence in NJ and in Florida. You have a Florida drivers license, and live in NJ in the spring-summer and in Florida in the winter, you forgot to bring ammo when you come up to NJ from Florida and need to buy ammo in NJ, how do you do that, once your NJ FID expires and you have an out of state drivers license?

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As I reflect on S2723, something occurred to me.

 

I was at the Bergen Ethical Culture Society in March when Loretta Weinberg was guest speaker. She mentioned something that stuck out as odd. Maybe someone else has a better recollection of what she said, and correct me if I recall incorrectly.

 

She said she asked some LEO, either a municipal police department or the state police, how many FIDs and permits were issued. They either told her they couldn't tell her, or wouldn't tell her, I don't recall clearly. I remember she was being rather put-off by it.

 

Reading S2723, the centerpiece bill, and S2720, I wonder if she is still working off that feeling of having been rebuffed.

 

If they told her they were not allowed to release that information, because that information is not of public record, that could explain her putting in S2720.

 

If they told her no, and she suspects the municipal or state police is not saying because they don't track that kind of numbers, that could explain S2723.

 

The bill does not change the respective roles of Superintendent of State Police to set process, or the municipal Police Chief to conduct background check. But it adds a 3rd party to the process, the Chief Administrator of NJ MVC, to the process.

 

NJ MVC has annual budget of about $410 million, employing about 2400 employees. Whereas a municipal police chief or superintendent is focused on the bureaucracy of administration related to crime, NJ MVC is focused on bureaucracy of data processing. A data-centric organization like NJ MVC should be better at answering questions like "How many Firearm IDs are in XX town? How many were issued for each month of 2011, etc.."

 

The bill is about building and Information Technology system, which in section 6c the superintendent will "test drive" between the 25th month and the 73rd month following the act's passage.

 

 

If anybody ever read Brady Bill of 1993, which is in US 922 (t) (1) and led to National Instant Background Check System (NICS), it is kind of like that.

The sad part is, where as NICS applies to the whole country, Sweeney and Weinberg's bill only applies to NJ.

All this flowery language, the super-duper system, the millions of dollars they are going to spend... none of it means a thing, once you realize criminals don't have firearm ids, don't buy guns legally, and if needed buy guns out-of-state.

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As I reflect on S2723, something occurred to me.

 

I was at the Bergen Ethical Culture Society in March when Loretta Weinberg was guest speaker. She mentioned something that stuck out as odd. Maybe someone else has a better recollection of what she said, and correct me if I recall incorrectly.

 

She said she asked some LEO, either a municipal police department or the state police, how many FIDs and permits were issued. They either told her they couldn't tell her, or wouldn't tell her, I don't recall clearly. I remember she was being rather put-off by it.

 

Reading S2723, the centerpiece bill, and S2720, I wonder if she is still working off that feeling of having been rebuffed.

 

If they told her they were not allowed to release that information, because that information is not of public record, that could explain her putting in S2720.

 

If they told her no, and she suspects the municipal or state police is not saying because they don't track that kind of numbers, that could explain S2723.

 

The bill does not change the respective roles of Superintendent of State Police to set process, or the municipal Police Chief to conduct background check. But it adds a 3rd party to the process, the Chief Administrator of NJ MVC, to the process.

 

NJ MVC has annual budget of about $410 million, employing about 2400 employees. Whereas a municipal police chief or superintendent is focused on the bureaucracy of administration related to crime, NJ MVC is focused on bureaucracy of data processing. A data-centric organization like NJ MVC should be better at answering questions like "How many Firearm IDs are in XX town? How many were issued for each month of 2011, etc.."

 

The bill is about building and Information Technology system, which in section 6c the superintendent will "test drive" between the 25th month and the 73rd month following the act's passage.

 

 

If anybody ever read Brady Bill of 1993, which is in US 922 (t) (1) and led to National Instant Background Check System (NICS), it is kind of like that.

The sad part is, where as NICS applies to the whole country, Sweeney and Weinberg's bill only applies to NJ.

All this flowery language, the super-duper system, the millions of dollars they are going to spend... none of it means a thing, once you realize criminals don't have firearm ids, don't buy guns legally, and if needed buy guns out-of-state.

 

That was kind if the point i was making above. Plus, from a technology standpoint it all can be done, but from a bureaucracy and privacy standpoint it will be tough. We all know how well kids play in the sandbox and share toys. I don't see it happening. This is just a, "well we came up with a great plan but they can't work together thing, so it is not our fault blame them."

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This is what I'm worried about and others should be too, what if we get pulled over and an officer scans our license or calls it in and finds out we're gun owners, there is going to be a lot of illegal unwarranted searches just because our license says we own a firearm, police don't care if its unconstitutional they're not held accountable for illegal searches, were all going to get harassed for something as simple as a brake light out or a headlight out or whatever other reason an officer can think of to pull you over and if were on the way to the range or out of state we're going to get arrested and dragged through the legal process because a majority of cops think that if a gun is involved let the courts straighten it out

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