S2723 Revises Firearm Purchaser ID and handgun purchase permits (Sweeney, Norcross, Weinberg)

[SW9racer 262]

So, if there isnt anything else I want to buy, and if I dont shop for ammo in nj, and I dont drive around with longguns in the car, why would I need one of these new fangled fpid cards?

[petros600 12]

What happen to the 10 round magazine bill? Did it pass?

[ifjpm 0]

I want to know also if the 10 round magazine bill was moved today. If not it will probably go on Thursday

[Plinkster5000 0]

This is what I'm worried about and others should be too, what if we get pulled over and an officer scans our license or calls it in and finds out we're gun owners, there is going to be a lot of illegal unwarranted searches just because our license says we own a firearm, police don't care if its unconstitutional they're not held accountable for illegal searches, were all going to get harassed for something as simple as a brake light out or a headlight out or whatever other reason an officer can think of to pull you over and if were on the way to the range or out of state we're going to get arrested and dragged through the legal process because a majority of cops think that if a gun is involved let the courts straighten it out

 

No need to get pulled over. The new cameras will tag you going 120+ MPH. Aloha Privacy

[Howard 538]

magazine reduction was not voted on today, it is a Thursday item.

[Arizona 0]

If your on your way to the range and asked if you have any firearms answer"yes". If you don't have any firearms invoke your 5th and 4th amendments rights. Let them get a search warrant and when they find nothing you'll be on your way. Would having an FID be probable cause to get a warrant?I wouldn't think so. Are they really going to ask everyone they pull over who has this endorsement if they have firearms with them? This may get nuts!!!!!!

[ogfarmer 138]

http://njgunforums.com/forum/index.php/topic/54284-alert-april-30th-senate-hearing-at-noon-not-10am-see-slp-comte-page/page__view__findpost__p__705035

I talked with Sweeney at one of the breaks today and he said that the driver license FID stuff would be encoded on the back and that police officers would not have access to that info during a traffic stop (so he claims). He also said he agreed with me that magazine reduction is stupid. Let's see what happens.

 

I guess we would only know when it happens

[mattio41 0]

I testified about this yesterday, and had come up with just a few while i was trying to read the bill on my phone. I am following up with a letter to senators who had sponsored. Please list what you think would be a direct effect if you had no way of proving to somebody that you are in fact a FPID holder.

 

Here is what I came up with so far.

 

 

Why a Separate FPID Card Must be Mandated

* NJ FPID’s are required to be able to purchase ammunition both in person and over the Internet. No company who is not based in New Jersey, will have the technology to decode our bar code. Nor should we expect them to have so. It will make it impossible and basically place an artificial ban on New Jersey Residents.

 

* Out of State purchases will essentially be banned. New Jersey residents will essentially be banned from purchasing any firearm, modern, historical, or collectable. It will be impossible for a New Jersey Resident to provide proof of his/her eligibility to do so.

 

* Selling or transferring ammunition amongst individuals. New Jersey Law already requires that the sale or transfer of Handgun Ammunition that the individual purchasing is required to provide a NJ FPID and Matching Drivers License. Section 9 (New) of this bill will now require the same of Rifle and Shotgun ammunition. Having an encoding on the back of the Drivers license, will once again infringe upon individuals to trade and sell amongst each other, thus creating an artificial ban of selling ammunition, and giving to licensed dealers a Monopoly.

 

*** Emergency situations *** Blackout/Hurricane Sandy Experience.

[Shawnmoore81 623]

What about a guy like me. I have a felon with the same name and birthday as me. The DMV even issued us the same dl number at one point. Now our digits are 1 number off. Yet his crap still shows up on my record. If he gets a warrant then I get arrested. Who's to say then he won't be able to get a gun by saying he's me. What if the DMV puts the endorsement on the wrong one. I already get delayed with every purchase do to him so who's to say this will fix it or make it worse.

[Shocker 150]

Do you really think that's "unintended"?

[Underdog 1,593]

Absolutely. The intentions are not to make our state safer, but to $crew those that support the Second Amendment, hinder sales, and harm that segment of our economy.

 

I am sure police cars will be outfitted to be able to sell them.

[OMGCUSTOMGUNS 0]

There is nothing "un-intentional" about it. They are simply trying to disarm us. Period.

 

Another consequence of having an FPID on your DL is it gives justifiable cause. You may get pulled over for a broken taillight and after seeing that you are an FPID holder be asked if there is a firearm in the vehicle. More cause for harassment.

 

Just my 2 cents.

 

C

[Underdog 1,593]

And, with it being included with your driver's license... If you don't comply in some fashion, they will figure out a way to revoke and/or suspend your driver's license until you comply. And, when you go to the doctor's offices with the online records, your driver's license will be read and the federal government will have it registry. Unintended consequences, yeah right. Most of the idiots voting on it won't get it, or care, but the ones orchestrating it know exactly what they are doing. Do you think with an "instant" DL background check, etc. they will get rid of the archaic and BS permit system?

[Malsua 1,422]

Every item on your bullet points are desired behaviors. You are in fact reinforcing their points for them.

[Guest]

one more reason to add to the long list of reasons to leave this state and move to a free state

[mattio41 0]

Every item on your bullet points are desired behaviors. You are in fact reinforcing their points for them.

 

If as you say is reinforcing points for them. Then I would have to believe, that would open this law up to a court challenge to be overruled.

[Candide 0]

And what if you dont have a license?

[Bowling Ball 22]

I go into DMV to renew my driver's license, which is kind of a chore.

 

They say,

- please fill out firearms application

- make appointment go get fingerprinted again.

- provide 2 references' names and addresses. Some DMV may require 4. Some may require references not be family. Some may require references to be notarized.

-mental health background check.

 

I just read the whole thread, and this post is very real.

 

THIS IS WHAT WE'RE FACING VERY SOON.

 

Also forget about us being able to renew online like the rest of the sheep population.

[Malsua 1,422]

If as you say is reinforcing points for them. Then I would have to believe, that would open this law up to a court challenge to be overruled.

 

On what grounds? As long as a reasonable alternative exists to mail order(buy local), they can ban it outright or defacto all they wish.

[Howard 538]

And what if you dont have a license?

 

Then you will need to get a motor vehicles non-driver ID -- same thing as a driver's license but you get the death penalty if you drive with it

[wooly bugger 1]

I agree that none of this is unintended, but there are senators out there with an incentive to put some vaseline on this bill. One important area I'm focusing is on safety. Emphasize that eliminating a visible identifier makes it impossible to vet someone before hunting with them or privately giving/selling them ammunition.

 

The online argument is a delicate one. Of course, some people want a de facto ban on online sales. But I think the effective message might be that they aren't going to succeed in banning interstate commerce, and, if it's going to exist, they should make it as safe as possible by working with vendors who responsibly require proof of FID.

 

Also, we need to offer suggestions. A couple of times, members of the committee thanked people for offering suggestions. Probably just good acting, but one can dream. My "centerpiece" suggestion is a Coburn-like DIY background check, which would allow me to enter my DL, SSN, and a PIN and print out a verifiable certificate, with my picture on it, good for 3 days.

 

Here's what I wrote last night to Sweeney. I'm going to send a version of it to the other committee members later today, so let me know if any suggestions.

 

Dear Senator Sweeney,

 

 

I appreciate the willingness of the Law & Public Safety Committee to consider public input on S2723. I'd like to add my thoughts to the discussion.

 

I see two easily fixed flaws in the legislation. First, an unintended consequence of the bill is that it will effectively eliminate private firearm transfers. No FFL will do a transfer for $15. This can be fixed by creating a portal, accessible by individuals, that would allow for running a background check with proper authentication. This would preserve the benefits of the legislation without imposing undue burdens on private sellers. A model of such a portal has been created by Senator Tom Coburn.

 

The second is the elimination of a readily identifiable firearm license, which would actually DECREASE safety. Without this document, it will be impossible to vet an individual before admitting him to a hunting club or lending him a shotgun while hunting. Additionally, it will make it impossible for online ammunition sellers to check the eligibility of a buyer. This is easily remediated by maintaining a separate card, which could still have all of the security features of the proposed driver license endorsement.

 

Thank you for considering my opinions.

[WVisHome 0]

What about a guy like me. I have a felon with the same name and birthday as me. The DMV even issued us the same dl number at one point. Now our digits are 1 number off. Yet his crap still shows up on my record. If he gets a warrant then I get arrested. Who's to say then he won't be able to get a gun by saying he's me. What if the DMV puts the endorsement on the wrong one. I already get delayed with every purchase do to him so who's to say this will fix it or make it worse.

 

Sounds like it's worth the hassle to legally change your name.

[Shawnmoore81 623]

Wouldn't fix it. Still would be my alias

[JTS1469 0]

Just a couple that come to mind. How bad will it become if a group of DMV workers goes bad and uses the information for some unintended reason. Along with how many criminals have fake licenses now. Can you imagine the amount on guns and ammo that will wind up on the streets. We now have a huge problem with INSTANT background checks FID's and long lines at the DMV. put them together giving DMV and Govt. more power in one place then they can handle already in separate places. There are no problems with the FID's that are issued why are they looking to change that? I thought the problem was criminals and mental health! None of which has been addressed.

[wooly bugger 1]

Just a couple that come to mind. How bad will it become if a group of DMV workers goes bad and uses the information for some unintended reason. Along with how many criminals have fake licenses now. Can you imagine the amount on guns and ammo that will wind up on the streets. We now have a huge problem with INSTANT background checks FID's and long lines at the DMV. put them together giving DMV and Govt. more power in one place then they can handle already in separate places. There are no problems with the FID's that are issued why are they looking to change that? I thought the problem was criminals and mental health! None of which has been addressed.

That's a great argument for the statists. If they want to restrict access, why give the power of granting access to a large, poorly vetted, and corruption prone organization like the DMV. This process should stay in the hands of the police.

[Pythagoras 2]

These sound like infringements to me....

[n4p226r 105]

So much for using your FPID for your 6 points at the dmv

[Glockguy1120 0]

What I still can't figure out, and call it a weeklong midnight shift delusion, is all of us who have been fid car holders for years, are we going to have to show proof of firearms training to get the new endorsement or are our existing cards proof enough? I am friggin through taking time off of work to take courses and get documentation for anymore stupid red tape bs.

[Pythagoras 2]

What I still can't figure out, and call it a weeklong midnight shift delusion, is all of us who have been fid car holders for years, are we going to have to show proof of firearms training to get the new endorsement or are our existing cards proof enough? I am friggin through taking time off of work to take courses and get documentation for anymore stupid red tape bs.

 

<rant>

 

This is what drove me crazy about some of the antis' testimonies. They said "even current holders shouldn't be exempt" - completely ignoring the fact that people have held FPID cards for 20, 30, 40 years. These freaking anti-gunners don't even know Cooper's four rules but they think they know better than SOMEONE LIKE PIZZA BOB!??? HOW DARE THEY!?

 

</rant>

 

I'm starting to get really mad at these people.

[Glockguy1120 0]

I just hope all this shit doesn't go into effect before I can get out of here next year.