Question for FFL's - Senate Bill 2723 - Private FTF Transfers

[mattio41 0]

I am asking for specific responses in regards to this question. 

 

In Senate Bill. S2723 it says for the following for both Rifles/Shotguns & Pistols.

 

 

 

21.  N.J.S.2C:58-3 is amended to read as follows:

     2C:58-3. a. (1) Permit to purchase a handgun.  No person shall sell, give, transfer, assign or otherwise dispose of, nor receive, purchase, or otherwise acquire a handgun unless the purchaser, assignee, donee, receiver or holder is licensed as a dealer under this chapter or has first secured a firearms purchaser identification card and a permit to purchase a handgun as provided by this section or possesses a valid New Jersey firearms purchaser identifier embedded with information affirming that the holder is qualified and eligible to purchase a handgun.

     (2) A person shall sell, give, transfer, assign, or otherwise dispose of, or receive, purchase or otherwise acquire a handgun pursuant to the provisions of this section only if the transaction is conducted by or through a retail dealer licensed under State law or a Federal Firearms Licensee.  The provisions of this paragraph shall not apply if the transaction is:

     (a) between members of an immediate family as defined in subsection m. of this section, including a temporary transfer between a member of the military being deployed and a family member;

     (b) between law enforcement officers;

     © between collectors of firearms or ammunition as curios or relics as defined in Title 18, United States Code, section 921 (a) (13) who have in their possession a valid Collector of Curios and Relics License issued by the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms; or 

     (d) a temporary transfer pursuant to section 1 of P.L.1992, c.74 (C.2C:58-3.1) or section 1 of P.L.1997, c.375 (C.2C:58-3.2).

     (3) Before a transaction under this subsection is conducted, the licensee shall complete a National Instant Criminal Background Check of the person acquiring the handgun. In addition: 

     (a) the licensee shall submit to the Superintendant of State Police, on a form approved by the superintendant, information identifying and confirming the background check;

     (b) every licensee shall maintain a record of transactions conducted pursuant to this subsection, which shall be maintained at the address set forth on the licensee’s license for inspection by a law enforcement officer during reasonable hours;

     © in addition to any fee the person receiving the handgun is required to pay for a NICS check, a licensee may charge a fee of up to $15 for a transaction conducted pursuant to this subsection; and

     (d) any record produced pursuant to this subsection shall not be considered a public record pursuant to P.L.1963, c.73 (C.47:1A-1 et seq.) or P.L.2001, c.404 (C.47:1A-5 et al.). 

     b.  Firearms purchaser identification card. 

 

 

Question1

As a FFL, would you take the responsibility of conducting background checks for private individuals doing a FTF transfers?

 

Question 2.

If you are limited to a specific fee that you can charge for this service, would that be acceptable, or would you just not provide the service?

 

Question 3.

What dangers or pitfalls can you imagine, of performing FTF Transfers for other individuals.

 

Question 4.

If you were to agree to to background checks. What requirements would you insist on from the two parties?

 

Question 5.

Should it be your responsibility to determine if the gun is legal to be transferred.

 

Question 6. 

Has any Government representative consulted with you or your company prior to trying to make this part of the law.

 

Question 7.

What legal liability would this impose on you, if you chose to perform such actions.

 

If you have another question that should be included, please list, and i will edit the original post.  In addition, please try to keep other chatter out of the thread as much as possible. 

 

Thank you for your cooperation.

 

 

 

 

[Jon 264]

FFL's only in this thread. Any other reply will be deleted.

[mattio41 0]

The genius of the above questions is, that yesterday, I was at the senate for the vote. When the vote was over, I was able to speak with Sweeney for a moment. I had already explained several flaws in his legislation prior. But I brought up to him that the Federal requirements for any FFL that conducts a transfer, are required to maintain and warehouse those records for life. In addition, most FFL's charge a far higher rate then 15 dollars. And that the way his legislation is written, it would all nut ban private transfers between individuals, that most FFL's would not accept a FTF transfer of private individuals that they were not a party to the transaction if they were restricted by such measurements.

 

I plan on doing a more in depth study to this of the pitfalls and downside to report back to the senate of why the law is flawed, and should be removed.

[henrym 19]

Nick im going to shoot you a PM, I think I have some insight.

 

As far as the questions, it all depends on how its put in place. I want to see if we are obligated to collect sales tax on the transaction, since a portion of it is being conducted through the business.

[PK90 3,570]

Have you read the Federal Guidelines for private transfers? LINK

[mattio41 0]

And by the way, he was not aware of any of that information, which only confirmed to me, that they did not speak with private enterprises before writing such legislation.

 

In addition, having such extra charges would result in a "Gun Tax" per se, if you wanted to sell a private firearm.

[mattio41 0]

Have you read the Federal Guidelines for private transfers? LINK

 

I started researching this morning, and plan to read more

[nuclearheli 40]

Ok it's lunchtime, I'll bite,

 

First lets look at some of the more questionable parts of the law before I answer your question.

 

(1) Permit to purchase a handgun. This section appears to be setting the stage for elimination of the purchase permit for handguns but it is wrong right off the bat. This section seems to imply that as a dealer I can legally, personally transfer a handgun to myself without a purchase permit. That is untrue. That's right, as a dealer I don't need to subject myself to NICS and I don't need a purchase permit to put any handgun or any number of handguns in my inventory, but to simply move a ledger entry from inventory to personal possession I still need a handgun permit. That makes no sense.

 

(2) As written "through a retail dealer licensed under State law or a Federal Firearms Licensee" It would be nice if these guys knew their own laws. In this state you cannot be a FFL without being a Retail Dealer in Firearms. It's not legal. You cannot legally conduct business as an FFL without it. 

 

"the licensee shall submit to the Superintendant of State Police, on a form approved by the superintendant, information identifying and confirming the background check" This one is a beauty. Right now we don't need to submit proof of the NICS to the State Police, why must we do it for a FTF transaction. Furthermore does this make any sense? We have to provide proof to the agency that actually provided the check that we did the check. What is up with that. 

 

Lastly they are dictating to NJ businesses what they are allowed to charge for their services? There are no such requirements for a dealer transaction right now, why should there be for a FTF transaction. 

 

 

Question1

As a FFL, would you take the responsibility of conducting background checks for private individuals doing a FTF transfers?

 

SURE, Show me what the differences is between what we do now and what we will be doing for a FTF transaction.

 

Question 2.

If you are limited to a specific fee that you can charge for this service, would that be acceptable, or would you just not provide the service?

 

Not Sure, there may be a huge volume of FTF transactions, lots of personalities to deal with and lots of FTF pissed off people with the new law, not at FFL's perhaps, but that will spill over to us since we will be the only outlet. At this point I am not sure it's worth the $15 or even more than that.

 

Question 3.

What dangers or pitfalls can you imagine, of performing FTF Transfers for other individuals.

 

None in particular, same basic requirements we work under now.

 

 

Question 4.

If you were to agree to to background checks. What requirements would you insist on from the two parties?

 

Same requirements as they have now, whatever the law mandates. ID's proper paperwork etc., No difference.

 

Question 5.

Should it be your responsibility to determine if the gun is legal to be transferred.

 

Doesn't seem to be a requirement in the law and if it is not then so be it. If I choose to perform this service I will do whatever the law requires me to do.

 

Question 6. 

Has any Government representative consulted with you or your company prior to trying to make this part of the law.

 

Hell no, When have they ever?

 

Question 7.

What legal liability would this impose on you, if you chose to perform such actions.

 

No more than I have right now I suppose. 

 

 

 

 

[mattio41 0]

Potential scenario: 2 people enter your establishment to transfer a firearm. It was only day available for the two individuals schedules. NICS is down or delayed. Does seller take firearm with him until NICS comes back? Does FFL hold onto such firearm? If individuals can't arrange schedule to meet again for 2 weeks, does NICS expire after certain time?

 

You can clearly see where a burden on two individuals who have already been vetted and are legal FID holders are now forced to spend additional resources to sell an item that is ready in private hands.