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First gun for short fingers, 9mm, low muzzle flip


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#1 boo

boo
  • LocationDelaware County, PA
  • Home Range:Targetmaster

Posted 24 July 2013 - 12:28 PM

Having just put in my FFID application this week, I guess I have a lot of time to think about it lol. Gun will be for range and HD. CC isn't a concern.

 

1. Decided on a 9mm: sounds like it's the best balance of having some stopping power for HD, but still manageable for someone new, and reasonable ammo cost.

 

2. I have REALLY short fingers. On men's small size gloves, I'm generally not able to fully fill out the fingers, though my palm is more like a medium.

 

3. Low muzzle flip. My understanding is that this will come from "full size" guns with 4+ inch barrels.

 

I think I've narrowed it down to either a Springfield XD9 Service or a Sig Sauer SP2022.

 

XD9: Sounds like it's small hand friendly, great overall reviews. I like the idea of all the safeties and physical loaded chamber indicator.

 

SP2022: Grip is replaceable to a smaller size, great overall reviews, and my understanding is that the DA/SA trigger lends itself well to HD because it makes it that much harder for to let out an unintended first shot. "Stock" magazines are 15 rounds, just making the NJ limit. Browsing around on the net for the XD9 it seems like they usually come with 16rd mags and I've have to buy 10 rd mags separately.

 

And more importantly, I love how both these guns look ;)

 

Other brands I've considered:

Glock: Somewhat curious about the Glock 17/19. Though I never seem to see those guns cited in searches from people with similar requirements as me.

Beretta: grips are supposed to be too big

HK or other SIGs: don't want to mortgage my house to pay for the gun (as if I had any equity in my home!)

Revolvers: fired them years ago and hated it! Stil something I'd be willing to revisit at some point.

Browning Hi-Power: Supposed to be a blast to shoot and has short reach to trigger. Unfortunately, I'm not that keen on the look. Still, the reviews seem favorable enough that I should try it out at some point.

 

Probably planning on a Ruger SR22 as a second gun, FWIW.

 

Any thoughts between the XD9 and SP2022? Any other suggestions?

 

 


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#2 tj462nj

tj462nj
  • LocationBayville
  • Home Range:Garden State Shooting Center

Posted 24 July 2013 - 12:35 PM

did you try the SW M&P 9, with the small backstrap it sounds like it might fit your hand



#3 glennp

glennp
  • LocationPort Murray
  • Home Range:My back yard

Posted 24 July 2013 - 12:53 PM

S&W 5906, cheap, heavy (no recoil).  Or a 9mm 1911, not as cheap but will also be heavy with barely any recoil.  1911s are slim, so usually small hands are actually OK with them


Silent souls leave .308 holes

#4 colnar

colnar
  • LocationLindenwold, NJ
  • Home Range:Bob's Little Sports Shop

Posted 24 July 2013 - 12:54 PM

I second the M&P9. It has adjustable backstraps and low muzzle lift. My wife has small hands and the smallest handstrap fits her fine.


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#5 Shocker

Shocker
  • LocationSomerset, NJ
  • Home Range:SCFGPA

Posted 24 July 2013 - 01:02 PM

The 2022 has a pretty high bore axis, it's going to jump around quite a bit. That's why I sold mine. Got an M&P and never looked back.

 

EDIT: my 2022 was a .40, it may be a non-issue in 9mm


-Dave

#6 mcbethr

mcbethr
  • LocationCherry Hill
  • Home Range:Ft. Dix Range 14 / Firing Line Philadelphia

Posted 24 July 2013 - 01:02 PM

Muzzle flip doesn't necessarily come from the size of the barrel, it comes from the position of the barrel and the weight of the gun.  There is also a difference between "recoil" and "felt recoil."

 

Two different guns of the same weight will recoil exactly the same, but the higher the barrel is above the frame, the more "flip" back because the gun is not recoiling straight back in your hand.  You can see this in the Chiappa Rhino revolver where the barrel accepts cartridges from the lower cylinder, not the upper one.  Compare a Chiappa Rhino .357 to a standard revolver and the difference is noticeable.  The recoil is the same, but because more of the gun is recoiling back into the meat of your hand, the "felt" recoil is different.

 

Note that there are exceptions to the rule.  The Beretta Px4 and Stoger Cougar have a rotating barrel that bleeds off the recoil, but there are disadvantages to the rotating barrel as well - namely lubrication and maintenance. 

 

Now that we have that out of the way, my suggestion is to look at single-stack 9mm guns.  Any double-stack 9mm will probably be too big for you.  I'm at work, so I'm going from memory here, but I believe the Glock 17/19 has a pistol grip width of 1.18 inches and the Beretta 92FS has a width of 1.26 inches.  The Glock is a little smaller, but essentially the same.  The XD is about the same size as the Glock.  If you are that concerned about grip width, no double-stack 9mm will be comfortable, whether it has a changable backstrap or not.

 

So my suggestions:

 

Look at the Kahr T9 - this is an all-metal single-stack gun with a 26 ounce weight.  Remember, heavier = less recoil.  This is a very, very nice gun.

 

Look at the HK P7 - I don't believe this is being made any more, but you can find them used.  I believe its width is 1.10 inches and around 27 ounces.  As a bonus, it's the same gun Hans Gruber used in Die Hard.

 

Finally, look at the single-stack 1911's.  They will be around 26 ounces.  Their grip width will be around the same as the Beretta, but you can buy slimline Alumagrips for about $60 that will reduce the with to a little over an inch.

 

Best of luck and welcome to the forum.


Unless we stand as one, we are just a bunch of guys screaming at the internet.

#7 mikeyjones

mikeyjones

Posted 24 July 2013 - 01:13 PM

I don't think anyone has mentioned it yet so I'll put in my 2 c.

I would consider the glock 17c for lower muzzle rise. It's ported out of the top so gasses keep the muzzle from rising too much. I like mine although I'm really not sure how much the porting really helps. I have both a stock and ported barrel and I shoot slightly better with the ported.

#8 seabasstard

seabasstard
  • Home Range:Woodland Park

Posted 24 July 2013 - 01:25 PM

+1 for what mcbethr wrote.

 

I was in the middle of writing up pretty much the same thing. I have fairly small hands and shoot both a Beretta 92fs and a 1911 in .45. The single stack frame of the 1911 is narrower and fits my hand much better than the 92. I would also say that even though it's a .45, the felt recoil of the 1911 is about the same as the Beretta (IMHO) and I seem to control it a lot better. 



#9 Pythagoras

Pythagoras

Posted 24 July 2013 - 01:31 PM

Look at the HK P7 - I don't believe this is being made any more, but you can find them used.  I believe its width is 1.10 inches and around 27 ounces.  As a bonus, it's the same gun Hans Gruber used in Die Hard.

 

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#10 boo

boo
  • LocationDelaware County, PA
  • Home Range:Targetmaster

Posted 24 July 2013 - 01:50 PM

Thanks all for the replies! I'm going to see if I can try handling a few of these, or better yet, renting.


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#11 vmastro87

vmastro87
  • LocationJackson, NJ
  • Home Range:CJRPC

Posted 24 July 2013 - 01:54 PM

i just got rid of my S&W Sigma 9mm for exactly this reason, i have tiny little hands and shrot fingers that are usually referred to as jimmy dean sausages lol. So i just got a glock 19, removed the backstrap and installed a 3.5 connector. it is prefect for me! i couldnt be any happier. My buddy has the 92fs (in .40) and i felt that it was very "chunky" in my hand and hated shooting in, just personal opinion. If you dont live far from jackson your more then welcome to come hold mine and i prob can get my buddy over with his Beretta for you to hold that too.   Good luck!!



#12 boo

boo
  • LocationDelaware County, PA
  • Home Range:Targetmaster

Posted 24 July 2013 - 02:25 PM

@vmastro, unfortunately I'm all the way up in Clifton, but thanks for the offer!

 

On the muzzle flip issue, I have a feeling it's something I'll just have to get used to with practice. I remembered shooting a revolver a long time ago (forget the exact gun, a .38 with a shorter barrel), and it kicked around like crazy in my hand. Totally made me uncomfortable. In contrast, i had a lot of fun with a 1911 style weapon that was probably a 9mm. I couldn't hit the broad side of a barn with it, but it was still fun to shoot! 


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#13 TheLugNutZ

TheLugNutZ
  • LocationSouthern Monmouth County
  • Home Range:Range 14

Posted 24 July 2013 - 02:26 PM

M&P all day.  The Sig def has a higher bore axis!


Wayne

#14 Dave_D

Dave_D
  • LocationNorth Jersey
  • Home Range:OBRPC

Posted 24 July 2013 - 03:35 PM

I'll echo the M&P suggestion. Have smaller hands myself and love the ergonomics of mine. You're welcome to put some rounds through it at BulletHole or Woodland Park. Just PM me if you want.
- Dave

#15 brucin

brucin
  • LocationMorris County NJ/Fulton County NY
  • Home Range:RTSP/Caroga Fish and Game Club

Posted 24 July 2013 - 03:39 PM

I have the Sig SP 2022. I like it but I manage the recoil well and don't notice the muzzle flip. My wife HATES the gun. She doesn't manage the recoil well and the spent cartridges come back and hit her in the face and head. As for grip size I switched out the grips and the difference was negligible but I have fairly large hands.

 

My wife who has small hands loves her Beretta 92F. The perceived recoil is much lighter than the Sig.

 

I also tried an M&P .40 and liked it a lot and would have gotten an M&P 9 if I could have found one but I got a great deal on the Sig.

 

My advice is rent a few guns at the range and see what you like. If you're ever out at RTSP and I'm available I would be happy to let you try the SP 2022.


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#16 ChrisJM981

ChrisJM981
  • LocationRandolph, NJ
  • Home Range:RTSP

Posted 24 July 2013 - 03:58 PM

Thanks all for the replies! I'm going to see if I can try handling a few of these, or better yet, renting.


I have small hands and short fingers as well. I purchased a Walther PPQ and couldn't be happier. I had an XD9 Service and the grip was too big. Sold it. I have an XD Subcompact which fits my hands well, but I feel the barrel is too short. As a substitute I would recommend the XDm Compact. It is basically the same size as the XD Subcompact, but has a 3.8" barrel instead of a 3".

I have a Glock 19 Gen2. It's nice, but the Gen4 (new model) fits my hand like a glove. If you want to go the route of the M&P, perhaps try a compact if they make one.
When you go for a .22lr, the Walther P22 is a nice little gun. :)
Effective gun control is a well placed shot.

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#17 GRIZ

GRIZ

Posted 24 July 2013 - 04:10 PM

I have short fingers and normal size hands. The fact is you can adapt to anything if you try. The backstrap sometimes sits on my thumb instead of the web just so I can reach the trigger on some double stack guns.

#18 mcbethr

mcbethr
  • LocationCherry Hill
  • Home Range:Ft. Dix Range 14 / Firing Line Philadelphia

Posted 24 July 2013 - 07:29 PM

Boo, if there's one thing you take away from this notice how many people offered to let you shoot their gun sight unseen.

We're family here and much different than the other gun forums you might read.

Keep that in mind as you go through this process. Once you do buy a gun it becomes your duty to be one of the good guys and spread the word about our sport.
Unless we stand as one, we are just a bunch of guys screaming at the internet.

#19 Gunsrlegal

Gunsrlegal
  • Home Range:Woodland Park Range

Posted 24 July 2013 - 07:43 PM

I'm a woman with small hands and I shoot the full-size M&P9 using the small back-strap. It fits my hands perfectly and my finger reaches the trigger at exactly the correct position. It was my very first gun and the first gun I ever shot---I was afraid of the recoil and barrel "flipping" before I took the first shot. I saw how easy the gun was to handle after just a couple of shots and I've never looked back, recoil isn't even an issue for me at this point.

 

I'm a member at the Woodland Park Range, which is right off the McBride Avenue exit on Route 46 and is very close to Clifton. If you ever want to shoot my M&P9, just let me know and I'd be happy to meet you there.

 

Good luck in your search.


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#20 Malice4you

Malice4you
  • LocationMorris County
  • Home Range:EFGA

Posted 25 July 2013 - 04:34 AM

I've got the SP2022 in 9mm.  Far as I know, the stock grips on the gun are the smallest ones available...the grip included in the box is larger.  I do not find that the gun has significantly more muzzle flip/rise than other 9mms I've shot, though I only typically shoot my P226 and SP2022 side by side, and the 226 has a bit more weight behind it, so it doesn't seem to have as much flip/rise because of that.  I have been quite happy with mine for the months I have owned it.  One thing I will say - for HD use, I'd suggest you look for a model with the night sights - usually about $50 more than the model without.

 

Something else to consider is the Sig P228 - a now discontinued model (well, M11 is current)...I've seen these used on gunbroker for ~$500.  It's a good way to get into an alloy frame Sig for not a huge investment...if you don't mind getting a used gun.  If you can find a Sig re-certified model, it might be worth looking into (red band on the pistol grip) for a little more money...

 

Glock makes some SF models, which are apparently for smaller hands.  However, I am not sure if these are available on the smaller calibers, or only on the .45ACP/10mm frames.  The Glock 17 and 19 are well respected 9mms.  I have the 23, the .40 equivalent of the 19, so I can't really compare to a 9mm.  I shoot the Glock well...

 

Whatever you get - good luck...


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#21 gunguy1960

gunguy1960

Posted 25 July 2013 - 04:42 AM

Springfield, great for small hands, super reliable, low cost.

#22 boo

boo
  • LocationDelaware County, PA
  • Home Range:Targetmaster

Posted 25 July 2013 - 05:31 AM

I think I'm definitely going to have to move M&P and Glock up higher on my list. I noticed M&P seems to have a magazine shortage problem (or at least a shortage of sub $100 magazines!)

 

 

Boo, if there's one thing you take away from this notice how many people offered to let you shoot their gun sight unseen.

We're family here and much different than the other gun forums you might read.

Keep that in mind as you go through this process. Once you do buy a gun it becomes your duty to be one of the good guys and spread the word about our sport.

 

I noticed this and was pleasantly surprised, thanks to everyone for you advice and offers :) I'm looking to do some beginner training classes in the next week or so, and a neighbor has invited out the range. I'll keep those offers in mind when I get a bit more experience under my belt. I definitely hope to be able to return the favor to newer gun owners in the future!


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#23 LorenzoS

LorenzoS

Posted 26 July 2013 - 02:58 PM

If your hands are smaller than the average then you definitely want a pistol with adjustable backstrap so that it will fit your hand.  Getting a proper grip is one of the key factors to managing recoil.

 

The S&W M&P, HK P30 and Walther PPQ are all very ergonomic and come with three sizes of backstraps.  The P30 also has three sizes of side panels.  Even Tiny Hands Man from the BK commercial can find a perfect fit.

 

The Gen4 Glocks have different backstraps but frankly this feature was more of a recent aftertthought but you should see how well it fits your hand.


Godammit New Jersey. Godammit.

#24 boo

boo
  • LocationDelaware County, PA
  • Home Range:Targetmaster

Posted 26 July 2013 - 04:53 PM

I went to Meltzer's yesterday to handle some of the guns. Tried the Sig 2022 and the handle felt really wide and awkward in my hand.  Also felt really light (which made me worry about recoil). I think there's supposed to be a smaller backstrap available not included with the gun, but I didn't see how it would help all that much and that's probably out of the mix for now. The XD9 seemed to fit really good in my hand, also noticeably heavier. They also had a bunch of Glocks I wanted to handle as well, but I figured I had taken up enough of their time and didn't want to be anymore of a bother with other potential customers in the room. Oh well, off to RTSP tomorrow morning to try some shooting.


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#25 DeerSlayer

DeerSlayer
  • LocationSussex County
  • Home Range:RTSP

Posted 26 July 2013 - 06:10 PM

I also have a small hand, I'm not a huge fan of Glock but I own a 17 in 9mm gen3 and a 27 .40 gen3. Both guns I'm fine with as far as comfortable to shoot, the problem I run into on the gen3's is my thumb is to short to reach the mag release button without adjusting my grip. The gen 4 models I've held in the store solve this problem the mag release button is farther back on the grip and it has adjustable back straps. Don't let me talk you out of a Sig though its a much better firearm in my opinion. I was at RTSP yesterday with my buddy and he let me shoot his XDM sub compact in .45 it feels a lot like a glock but the entire grip is skinnier fit my hand great and my thumb reached the mag release no prob. I wouldn't get it in .45 personally but i see myself ordering one in 9mm in the future. Just my .02 from a fellow small handed guy. Sent using Tapatalk 2

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#26 345Sire

345Sire
  • Home Range:n/a

Posted 26 April 2016 - 05:40 PM

Boo, if there's one thing you take away from this notice how many people offered to let you shoot their gun sight unseen.

We're family here and much different than the other gun forums you might read.

Keep that in mind as you go through this process. Once you do buy a gun it becomes your duty to be one of the good guys and spread the word about our sport.

clap, clap, clap! Well put Sir.

'Nother newbie here, but been reading up a storm.



#27 Ricky_Bobby

Ricky_Bobby

Posted 27 April 2016 - 12:20 PM

If your hands are smaller than the average then you definitely want a pistol with adjustable backstrap so that it will fit your hand.  Getting a proper grip is one of the key factors to managing recoil.

 

The S&W M&P, HK P30 and Walther PPQ are all very ergonomic and come with three sizes of backstraps.  The P30 also has three sizes of side panels.  Even Tiny Hands Man from the BK commercial can find a perfect fit.

 

The Gen4 Glocks have different backstraps but frankly this feature was more of a recent aftertthought but you should see how well it fits your hand.

 

^Agreed with this one - the Gen 4 Glocks correct me if I'm wrong but out of the box come with the smallest configuration installed (no backstrap) - I also don't have large paws and I'm a southpaw so I'm always looking for guns with adjustable backstraps and ambi-mag releases - Even with Slim grips on my 1911 if I put my gun in my right hand I can't reach the mag release button with my thumb without shifting my shooting grip for comparison, so OP, I feel your pain.

 

The Ruger American Pistol also has adjustable backstraps, Sig P320 has grip modules, etc - lots of nice options out there now for different hand sizes.



#28 Mr.Stu

Mr.Stu
  • LocationStillwater
  • Home Range:SCFGPA, EFGA

Posted 27 April 2016 - 03:55 PM

Look at a browning hi power and install a set of slim grips. There's a lady on here that has just got herself one of these and it fits like a charm. Said lady has the smallest hand I've ever seen on an adult.

#29 boo

boo
  • LocationDelaware County, PA
  • Home Range:Targetmaster

Posted 27 April 2016 - 07:14 PM

Reading this thread is like going back in a time machine, lol. My how things have changed in a few short years. As an FYI for those that are in the situation I was, I encourage you to go to somewhere like RTSP where you can rent a bunch of guns for a single gun rental fee. The following were some of my experiences:

 

XD9 - This ended up being my first purchase. Grip is short finger friendly and I'd been planning to put in a springer precision after-market trigger which would 1) move the trigger farther back, making it even easier to reach and 2) remove the pre-travel from the trigger. But I never bothered as I've since found I prefer a grip with more aggressive stippling.

 

Sig P229 with E2 grip and reduced reach trigger - The E2 grip is very important because Sigs with regular grips will be way too big. The bonus with the Sig is that the slide release is farther back compared to most guns and makes it easy to reach if you have short thumbs without having to shift your grip. I can barely tell the difference now, but newbies that I bring shooting tell me that this has the least recoil in comparison to all of my polymer guns and the most fun to shoot. Probably due to the metal frame.

 

HK VP9 (P30 will probably be the same) - This works extremely well due to the removable backstrap and side panels. Because I have short fingers, but medium palms, medium left panel combined with small backstrap and small right panel feels awesome (I'm right handed). Just in terms of hand feel, this is probably my favorite. I don't shoot it much for other reasons. But if they ever come out with a VP9SK, I'd be all over it. 

 

PPQ - Works okay with the smallest backstrap installed. But if you're a newbie and don't have a proper grip, you might find it a bit more muzzle flip in comparison to the others. I think again, I need more aggressive stippling. Granulate talon grips work great for helping to keep control, but make the grip ever so slightly larger. Also scrapes the hell out of your side if have the opportunity to carry IWB in America.

 

More recently I've become a fan of the P320 platform and mostly shoot a p320 subcompact with a size small grip nowadays. Plan on eventually getting a compact conversion kit.

 

Hope all this helps


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#30 Ricky_Bobby

Ricky_Bobby

Posted 28 April 2016 - 08:50 AM

^I'm also a fan of the P320 platform - great striker for the price point from Sig - only thing is that by the time you buy compact sized mags, compact barrel and grip module dont you almost have as much invested as a second gun?  I haven't really priced it out, just curious.






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