Civilian, Non-Law Enforcement Carry Permit Aplication Help

[halbautomatisch 60]

My best friend went through that one a few years ago.  The process is pretty simple. You just need to be hired and receive a letter of need from your job.  Then you take that to your local PD and the chief signs off and passes it off to the judge, and voila you have a restricted permit good for 2 years.

 

That's all in theory.  However, my buddy was delayed for 3 months by the chief, then another month by the judge.  When he finally received the permit, he got a letter from the judge saying something to the effect of "I don't do this normally.  I hate doing this.  Don't f up.  If you f up, I will nail your balls to the wall and make an example out of you."

You may also need to attend a hearing depending on what county you live in. There is usually only one judge in each county that signs off on carry and state firearms retailers licenses, some of these judges insist on having you show up for a hearing and give testimony on why you need the license.

[Sixtytwo327 14]

Why so vague? Why do you need one? What makes you more special, deserving, or desperate than the thousands of others who have been denied?

[mickeyduck 0]

Bang the neighbors wife, get the husband to try to kill you and be persistent with attempting it and walah....... justified cause.

 

Sent from my SCH-I605 using Tapatalk 4

 

LOL, you are one sicko! I love it.

[mickeyduck 0]

Why so vague? Why do you need one? What makes you more special, deserving, or desperate than the thousands of others who have been denied?

 

If you live in trenton or newark, you must qualify for one, no?

[mickeyduck 0]

How hard is it to get one as a security guard? I know it is heavily restricted but I'm curious about that process.

 

I would guess you need to be a real security guard, one that works for a armor transport company. 

[ryan_j 0]

I would guess you need to be a real security guard, one that works for a armor transport company. 

 

Actually no. You don't have to work for an armored car company. You just have to be a security guard. But you also have to go through all the other stuff like SORA and training. And when that's all said and done, most times you get a restricted permit. 

[Se9 0]

Since when is it the police job to protect...

Very hard to protect when you show. Up after the crime has been committed. There was a time when the criminal element in this country was afraid of the police now they confront them when ever the situation need be. Look what happened in Trenton when the police showed up to break up a fight between 2 girls. The whole block was involved in the assault on police

[Sixtytwo327 14]

If you live in trenton or newark, you must qualify for one, no?

 

Unfortunately, you do not not. Larger point was, if an anonymous poster on a pro-gun forum can't string together a coherent argument to convince people who already support CC, there is little chance. Never hurts to try, though.

 

I'm genuinely curious as to what his or her circumstances are - but OP has been silent.

[Newtonian 453]

Curious what people think: say hypothetically that someone had 50k to spend towards obtaining a nj ccp. Could one find a connected lawyer offer to pay him for his time for help with the application and agree to pay a 50k bonus if the application is granted. Let the lawyer worry about how it happens. I'm obviously not looking for suggestions but am curious as to whether people think such a thing might work in this wonderful state.

If that wealthy contractor couldn't get a permit, I fail to see how someone with $50k to burn could obtain one. Get real. This is a fantasy thread. I'm surprised it's gone on for this long.

[ryan_j 0]

But what I do know is that there ARE a few people who aren't LEO/retired LEO, or security guards/armored car and who have permits. Who are they and how did they get their permits?

 

What's even more bizarro is that some judges have said that they can't get one, nor members of the NJ legislature. But others apparently can.

 

So what do those with carry permits have to do to get them? Apart from Jeff Muller who basically had be beaten, kidnapped and file a federal lawsuit. What is their justifiable need, and how is it better than a judge or member of the legislature?

 

In NYC it is quite clear who gets and who doesn't. Wealthy people like Donald Trump and Ivan Seidberg (Verizon CEO) can get a permit. Celebrities such as A-Rod and Steven Tyler can get one. But apparently in NJ nobody knows who gets one. 

[Newtonian 453]

I see what you're getting at. Intriguing.

 

Do you suppose invoking the Freedom of Information Act might work to get some kind of list? The permit holders would probably object, as they did when a newspaper published their locations in NY state.

 

Is there any chance that this could be a regional/geographic phenomenon? That certain judges grant permits?

[Se9 0]

That's the direction I was leaning towards myself the freedom of info act

We don't need a list of personal info just the number of permits issued and by what judges

[carguy3j 0]

That's the direction I was leaning towards myself the freedom of info act

We don't need a list of personal info just the number of permits issued and by what judges

Aahhh, but "they" will surely argue, and with some degree of truth, that revealing which judges are "gun-friendly" will jeopardize their safety, what with all the angry non-violent anti-gun people around (apparently including some who wish for children to be murdered, to prove their point). Or, they could argue that they don't want "gun nutz" knowing which judges are against them, lest they, and their independently sentient evil black rifles, go on a judge killing spree.

Not only that, "outing" which judges are "on our side" could cause them to get into trouble, or at least make their lives very difficult, or even ruin their careers. 

 

I'm just saying, there maybe unintended consequences, some detrimental to the "cause".

[Se9 0]

There's always united consequences I would never want to jeopardize any ones life career

[Newtonian 453]

So it comes down to the identities of the judges who issue permits. Who are they? 

 

Wouldn't it be weird if no judge in this state was sufficiently gun-friendly to issue carry permits routinely? Is it really up to the judge, or is the judge forced to follow some rule(s)?

 

Funny how in NY individuals of good character will be issued some kind of carry permit UNLESS they say it's for protection. The mantra there is "for all legal purposes." I believe CT is the same.

 

 

[ryan_j 0]

Total number is available. Specific judges, probably not. 

[ryan_j 0]

So it comes down to the identities of the judges who issue permits. Who are they? 

 

Wouldn't it be weird if no judge in this state was sufficiently gun-friendly to issue carry permits routinely? Is it really up to the judge, or is the judge forced to follow some rule(s)?

 

Funny how in NY individuals of good character will be issued some kind of carry permit UNLESS they say it's for protection. The mantra there is "for all legal purposes." I believe CT is the same.

 

CT is shall issue in practice. 

[ryan_j 0]

And to be clear, I wasn't really looking for a list of judges. What I want to know is what constitutes justifiable need to issue a permit. The 800 or so permits per year can't all be security guards. Some must have justifiable need. 

 

I doubt that judges would vary regionally because Muller from Sussex County was denied by a Morris County judge, and Morris County and Sussex County are pro 2nd amendment. 

[Newtonian 453]

And to be clear, I wasn't really looking for a list of judges. What I want to know is what constitutes justifiable need to issue a permit. The 800 or so permits per year can't all be security guards. Some must have justifiable need. 

 

I doubt that judges would vary regionally because Muller from Sussex County was denied by a Morris County judge, and Morris County and Sussex County are pro 2nd amendment. 

"Justifiable need" is a poorly defined term that NJ judges apparently interpret as they like. Don't even bother figuring it out because if a wealthy guy who carries tons of cash around can't demonstrate it, you are very unlikely to convince the same judge who turned him down. Yet (you said) 800 permits are granted yearly , and these can't all be security guards. 

 

So the question of what constitutes need is irrelevant, mooter than moot. 

 

The burning issue is whether different judges, in other NJ jurisdictions, are more lenient. This must be the answer to this thread, not what constitutes "justifiable need."

[GRIZ 3,369]

Finding out which judges issue the most permits really wouldn't show the whole pcture. I would hazard a guess most permits are issued in places like Camden or Newark as there is more need for armed security guards there. You would need to know permits issued for reasons other than employment.

[halbautomatisch 60]

The hearings for these carry permits work like this:

 

The prosecutor asks leading questions to the applicant, such as:

 

Q) who do you work for? 

A) XYZ security company

 

Q) What do you do for this company?

A) I carry money and other valuables - or - I refill ATM machines with money - etc.

 

Q) What areas do you work in?

A) (fill in whatever cities/towns you want here because the answer doesn't matter - towns such as Chester, Parsippany, Hackettstown and Dover get mentioned along with some actual high crime locations).

 

Q)Are these dangerous locations where there Is a great risk of you being robbed while working?

A) Yes (a necessary answer or your carry permit will be denied - they will ask you the same question over again if you answer it wrong until you get the answer correct).

 

The prosecutor then asks questions about what weapon they will carry, and if they have the required training. The the prosecutor will present the "letter of need" from the employer to the judge. If everything is in order, the prosecutor will "recommend" (as thought this wasn't all predetermined)  that the judge grant the license. The judge rubber stamps the paperwork.

[ryan_j 0]

The hearings for these carry permits work like this:

 

The prosecutor asks leading questions to the applicant, such as:

 

Q) who do you work for? 

A) XYZ security company

 

Q) What do you do for this company?

A) I carry money and other valuables - or - I refill ATM machines with money - etc.

 

Q) What areas do you work in?

A) (fill in whatever cities/towns you want here because the answer doesn't matter - towns such as Chester, Parsippany, Hackettstown and Dover get mentioned along with some actual high crime locations).

 

Q)Are these dangerous locations where there Is a great risk of you being robbed while working?

A) Yes (a necessary answer or your carry permit will be denied - they will ask you the same question over again if you answer it wrong until you get the answer correct).

 

The prosecutor then asks questions about what weapon they will carry, and if they have the required training. The the prosecutor will present the "letter of need" from the employer to the judge. If everything is in order, the prosecutor will "recommend" (as thought this wasn't all predetermined)  that the judge grant the license. The judge rubber stamps the paperwork.

 

These are security guard permits though. Regular civilians would have something a bit different, I'd imagine without the work questions. 

 

And restocking ATMs with cash isn't necessarily a justifiable need, as plaintiff John M Drake in Drake v Filko has proven. 

[olderguy 0]

So you are better off buying a prosecutor than a judge?  Might be easier.

[vladtepes 1,060]

if you really want to rock the boat... someone should start to research on what grounds permits were issued.... are those court records available to the public...

 

meaning that if "judge smith" approved a permit for his friend under the grounds of "working in a dangerous city" 

then anyone that applies under that same judge that meets the same condition... would be just in getting the permit... 

 

and when the permit is not issued (because it wont be) then cant you go somewhere in exposing the unjust nature of the system?

like it or not.. we know who has carry permits in NJ... and IMO they are not people that don't know people in the government... it is an obvious system of favor... 

[mickeyduck 0]

And to be clear, I wasn't really looking for a list of judges. What I want to know is what constitutes justifiable need to issue a permit. The 800 or so permits per year can't all be security guards. Some must have justifiable need. 

 

I doubt that judges would vary regionally because Muller from Sussex County was denied by a Morris County judge, and Morris County and Sussex County are pro 2nd amendment. 

 

I would also guess, rich & famous body guards in Jersey get permits.

[ryan_j 0]

I would also guess, rich & famous body guards in Jersey get permits.

They fall under "security guard."

[halbautomatisch 60]

These are security guard permits though. Regular civilians would have something a bit different, I'd imagine without the work questions. 

 

And restocking ATMs with cash isn't necessarily a justifiable need, as plaintiff John M Drake in Drake v Filko has proven. 

I brought this up because I wanted to show what a farce the hearing is, the granting of these permits was predetermined because these guys all worked for an armored security company. I used to live in one the towns mentioned as "dangerous" and was thinking if they can justify giving out a permit for working there I should be able to get a permit for living there, but we all know that will never happen under current rules.

[GRIZ 3,369]

I don't think you're going to find "gun friendly" judges anywhere in NJ. If there were any I'm sure the secret would be out by now. Even if you did find one say in Cape May that wouldn't do you much good unless you live there. I'm sure you will have to have your hearing in the county you reside.

[ryan_j 0]

I don't think you're going to find "gun friendly" judges anywhere in NJ. If there were any I'm sure the secret would be out by now. Even if you did find one say in Cape May that wouldn't do you much good unless you live there. I'm sure you will have to have your hearing in the county you reside.

 

Not only that but if you have justifiable need, like Muller's kidnapping and the judge in your county is handling the case for the criminal act against you they will assign a judge from another county to make it "fair."

 

So for Muller they assigned a judge in Morris county instead of Sussex county where he lives. 

[DeerSlayer 241]

What if we all just register 24/7/365 security company business? Name yourself as soul proprietor? Then you hire yourself to protect yourself 24/7/365. There's no law im aware of that says you cant hire yourself to provide services to yourself if you own a business? I don't think its illegal to hire a security company to protect yourself either. Issue your need to carry letter to yourself? Then we can all apply for carry permits because we need them for our line of work. You can even write yourself a paycheck every week. Probably need an insurance policy im sure. Has anyone ever tried this? Or is my creative idea crazy?

 

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