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Update on Right to Carry appeals case, Almeida Vs. Sussex Co.

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Ryan i agree with the lack of support and people problem. I think a major problem with nj2as and their program was ok go out and apply. We need to get a program together where its a one stop deal. Come we help fill out paper work, do prints, training class, qualifications, notary all in one. No running to 100 different places to get it done. I think if we make it simple people will be willing to do it. And we will need some volunteers to help to keep costs minimal. I am awaiting response from anjrpc, and a local range. If you have any other contacts let me know.

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Hopefully that absolutely nonsensical response from the judge will prompt a broader discussion on CCW in NJ.  Telling a business owner to find a different job or spend money on security when he is more than capable of protecting himself is so off the charts unreasonable that it should get some attention.

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Hopefully that absolutely nonsensical response from the judge will prompt a broader discussion on CCW in NJ. Telling a business owner to find a different job or spend money on security when he is more than capable of protecting himself is so off the charts unreasonable that it should get some attention.

We will be discussing it next week on GFH radio along with some other ideas. We couldn't do today as Anthony had Darren goins from NRA on the show so we got bumped to next week. Plus it worked out good with Albert meeting Alan Gottlieb.

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Article on NJ.com this morning about the High Point School hiring armed security starting next school year.   Guess what,  yep you guessed it 2 retired state troopers,   proves my point.   You mean to tell me there is not a single qualified citizen living in Sussex County that can take these jobs who really need these jobs.  I guess the answer is yes since not one American citizen living there has been bestowed their right to carry a firearm thus keeping them out of the qualifications and keeping retired troopers in.    I guess when the judge told Almeida to hire a security firm this is what he meant .   seems like extortion to me.       By the way,  why doesn't this site let you post links?

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If we had the internet 45 years ago, I would be reading the same stuff as I read now.

 

Is your case specific to only your circumstances of being robbed and threatened or would a victory enable the general public to get ccw permits? If very limited to your circumstance, I can understand why pro gun groups would not support you with their limited funds. I guess the question they ask is if Joe Average would benefit from a win in this case or just, a few people. In any event, I wish you luck. I waited very long for ccw to come to NJ and then decided that my best option, in the face of ever increasing gun control in NJ, was to move out of State if I wanted to live my remaining days with few restrictions on my shooting hobby, personal protection and gun collecting. As they say, you got to know when to hold then and know when to fold them.

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Not trying to butt heads, just wondering: why is it different? 

 

I believe the federal lawsuit (Drake) was what is commonly referred to as a "1983" lawsuit. It was not directly challenging the application. It was a lawsuit for deprivation of civil rights. 

 

42 USC1983

 

"Every person who, under color of any statute, ordinance, regulation, custom, or usage, of any State or Territory or the District of Columbia, subjects, or causes to be subjected, any citizen of the United States or other person within the jurisdiction thereof to the deprivation of any rights, privileges, or immunities secured by the Constitution and laws, shall be liable to the party injured in an action at law, suit in equity, or other proper proceeding for redress, except that in any action brought against a judicial officer for an act or omission taken in such officer’s judicial capacity, injunctive relief shall not be granted unless a declaratory decree was violated or declaratory relief was unavailable. For the purposes of this section, any Act of Congress applicable exclusively to the District of Columbia shall be considered to be a statute of the District of Columbia."

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If we had the internet 45 years ago, I would be reading the same stuff as I read now.

 

Is your case specific to only your circumstances of being robbed and threatened or would a victory enable the general public to get ccw permits? If very limited to your circumstance, I can understand why pro gun groups would not support you with their limited funds. I guess the question they ask is if Joe Average would benefit from a win in this case or just, a few people. In any event, I wish you luck. I waited very long for ccw to come to NJ and then decided that my best option, in the face of ever increasing gun control in NJ, was to move out of State if I wanted to live my remaining days with few restrictions on my shooting hobby, personal protection and gun collecting. As they say, you got to know when to hold then and know when to fold them.

 

There were two parts of the argument as to why Almeida should get a permit. The primary was that he has a right under the 2nd amendment. The second was that he had justifiable need. 

 

This has the potential to strike down the justifiable need requirement as unconstitutional.

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Ryan i agree with the lack of support and people problem. I think a major problem with nj2as and their program was ok go out and apply. We need to get a program together where its a one stop deal. Come we help fill out paper work, do prints, training class, qualifications, notary all in one. No running to 100 different places to get it done. I think if we make it simple people will be willing to do it. And we will need some volunteers to help to keep costs minimal. I am awaiting response from anjrpc, and a local range. If you have any other contacts let me know.

Any progress or update on this effort ?

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Appellate courts will render a decision. He won't just "get a permit."

Understood, however if the court renders a favorable decision it will only apply to the specific circumstances presented in this case.  I don't see how a favorable decision can help the rest of us as our circumstances and reasons for seeking a permit are all different.  The only way I see this working is if the court knocks out the "justifiable need" clause.  If that happens, I bet the AJ will appeal the decision to avoid issuing any permits and seeing the house of cards come tumbling down.

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The biggest mistake we are making is fighting the ENEMY on their own ground,  We are only shoveling the same pile of shit against the tide.   Any relief American citizens who for what ever reason happen to reside in this state will get will have to be fought somewhere else and by others and we will reap the benefits of that fight.   SCOTUS will have to render a favorable decision on a case or The next Congress, Senate or POTUS will have to pass a GOOD for all states National Reciprocity law that  NJ must abide by.    We will not beat the NJSC or the 3rd circuit.   Other than that a revolution.

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Understood, however if the court renders a favorable decision it will only apply to the specific circumstances presented in this case. I don't see how a favorable decision can help the rest of us as our circumstances and reasons for seeking a permit are all different. The only way I see this working is if the court knocks out the "justifiable need" clause. If that happens, I bet the AJ will appeal the decision to avoid issuing any permits and seeing the house of cards come tumbling down.

No. If they issue a decision it will apply to more than just this case. Either way I don't see him prevailing at the appellate level, they have been emboldened by Drake and it will be petitioned to NJSC or SCOTUS. SAF wouldn't be taking this case if it applied just to him.

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Understood, however if the court renders a favorable decision it will only apply to the specific circumstances presented in this case. I don't see how a favorable decision can help the rest of us as our circumstances and reasons for seeking a permit are all different. The only way I see this working is if the court knocks out the "justifiable need" clause. If that happens, I bet the AJ will appeal the decision to avoid issuing any permits and seeing the house of cards come tumbling down.

No. If they issue a decision it will apply to more than just this case. Either way I don't see him prevailing at the appellate level, they have been emboldened by Drake and it will be petitioned to NJSC or SCOTUS. SAF wouldn't be taking this case if it applied just to him.

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Any progress or update on this effort ?

yes, anjrpc basically said contact a lawyer about it. Im waiting to hear back about a course that is trying to be put together from a range. They said they would come up with something within a week or so and let me know. I will keep all informed.

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Article on NJ.com this morning about the High Point School hiring armed security starting next school year.   Guess what,  yep you guessed it 2 retired state troopers,   proves my point.   You mean to tell me there is not a single qualified citizen living in Sussex County that can take these jobs who really need these jobs.  I guess the answer is yes since not one American citizen living there has been bestowed their right to carry a firearm thus keeping them out of the qualifications and keeping retired troopers in.    I guess when the judge told Almeida to hire a security firm this is what he meant .   seems like extortion to me.       By the way,  why doesn't this site let you post links?

You have to admit that a retired state cop is infinitely more qualified than somebody you pull out of a GFH training class. The main problem is not that they hire a cop, but that the cop collects a full pension while working a second job. We wind up paying two, three, in some cases FOUR individuals for the same job.

 

The abysmal state of right to carry in NJ is a totally separate issue.

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With all due respect and admiration for those who try through the courts, the right to bear arms outside the home has been largely achieved legislatively, and to a lesser degree through the executive branch. Illinois and that recent California decision are the exceptions, by no means the rule. The PA attorney general's recent decree on Utah permits is an example of the "executive" route for changing a state's gun laws.

 

Northeast courts and even the Supreme Court have pretty much treated concealed carry as a federalist issue. In other words the 2nd Amendment is subject to state regulation; the degree and severity of that regulation has traditionally been left to the states.

 

In some ways this is a good thing. The federal government already controls enough of our lives. If they feel obligated to tell NJ they must scrap our "need" requirement they can also force Vermont to do away with constitutional carry. Or tell Kentucky that their laws regarding purchasing firearms are too lenient. Instead they stay out, even if it means erring on the side of more-restrictive government.

 

This is why I keep writing that the only way to CC in this state is to vote out those obstructing it. I have demonstrated several times how this can be done, and in fact quite easily. My real-world proposals have barely inspired a half-dozen responses. 

 

Instead you guys prefer to chase windmills, even in the face of defeat after defeat after defeat.

 

Yeah, maybe some judge is disconnected enough from the sewer that merges law, politics, and money that he or she will see the light. And also, maybe those painted pigs at the Susses Fairgrounds will come to life, and we'll have hog hunting.

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