New Jersey lawmakers seek mandatory training for potential gun owners.

[InFamous 311]

I haven't seen this posted but was curious what everyone thinks. 

 

 

A bill introduced into New Jersey’s state Assembly would require those applying to buy a handgun to attend mandatory training beforehand.

The legislation, introduced by Assembly Democrats, will require up to a four-hour block of firearms safety training approved by the New Jersey State Police before granting a Firearms Purchaser Identification Card, which is required for all handgun purchases in the Garden State. The measure, introduced in October, is aimed to decrease gun accidents through increased legislation says the bill’s sponsors.

“The most devastating gun accident stories are of innocent children who find unsecured firearms of relatives,” Assemblyman Tim Eustace said in a statement obtained by the Cliffview Pilot. “This legislation educates prospective gun owners on how to keep themselves and their families safe while owning a firearm.”

 

 

http://www.guns.com/2014/11/04/new-jersey-lawmakers-seek-mandatory-training-for-potential-gun-owners/

 

I see the good and the bad in it. I think all gun owners should be 100% up on gun safety, especially around children. If it's an "initial" type training I'm actually okay with it. If they make you do training every time you apply for a P2P or have to get a new FPID because you moved then that's overboard.

[ogfarmer 138]

http://njgunforums.com/forum/index.php/topic/72563-a3764-assembly-bill-requires-successful-completion-of-firearms-education-program-to-obtain-initial-firearms-purchaser-identification-card-and-permi/

[10X 3,296]

Bad idea for several reasons.    First of all, "The measure, introduced in October, is aimed to decrease gun accidents through increased legislation says the bill’s sponsors."  sets me off.   The only result, which is exactly the result they want, is to 'decrease gun ownership through increased legislation'.     Nothing ever gets better through 'increased legislation'.

 

Second, if the the safety training must be approved by the NJ State Police, and they don't get around to approving a training curriculum, no one gets issued a Firearms Purchaser Identification Card.    Think that's unlikely?   Look at what is happening in DC.  Don't give them more power to block gun ownership.

I haven't seen this posted but was curious what everyone thinks. 

 

 

 

http://www.guns.com/2014/11/04/new-jersey-lawmakers-seek-mandatory-training-for-potential-gun-owners/

 

I see the good and the bad in it. I think all gun owners should be 100% up on gun safety, especially around children. If it's an "initial" type training I'm actually okay with it. If they make you do training every time you apply for a P2P or have to get a new FPID because you moved then that's overboard.

[HBecwithFn7 296]

I trust that those that already have an FPID don't need to complete this training.... that they are "grandfathered..."    Not that it makes it any better... but...

[Midwest 28]

This sounds like what their idea from Maryland

 

https://www.mdsp.org/Organization/SupportServicesBureau/LicensingDivision/MainLicensingPage/LicensingandRegistration/Firearms/HandgunQualificationLicense.aspx

 

 

"To apply for an HQL the law requires a fingerprint based background check (click here for how). You cannot submit your application until this is completed, unless you already possess as Maryland Wear and Carry Permit.

Within 3 years prior to the submission of an HQL application, an applicant must demonstrate a satisfactory completion of a Firearms Safety Training Course. Qualified Handgun Instructors can be found online (here). The Firearms Safety Training Course must be instructed by a Qualified Handgun Instructor, and shall consist of a minimum of 4 hours of instruction and include the following minimum curricula:

(1) State Firearm Law. Overview of the State firearm laws, including discussion of what constitutes a regulated firearm, how to properly purchase or transfer a firearm, where allowed to carry or transport a firearm, when necessary to possess a carry permit, who is prohibited from possessing firearms, and state law relating to minors, permissible levels of force, and use of deadly force.

(2) Home Firearm Safety. Overview of handgun and firearm safety in the home, including discussion of access to minors, locking and storing of firearms, and use of safety devices, such as secure lock boxes.

(3) Handgun Mechanisms and Operation. Overview of the proper operation and safe handling of a handgun, including cleaning and maintenance, the loading and unloading of ammunition, and the differences between revolvers and semi-automatic handguns.

(4) Operation and Handling Demonstration. Orientation component that demonstrates the person’s safe operation and handling of a firearm, to include a “live fire” component in which the applicant safely shoots the weapon. An applicant may not be required to fire in excess of 15 yards during qualifications."
 

[InFamous 311]

http://njgunforums.com/forum/index.php/topic/72563-a3764-assembly-bill-requires-successful-completion-of-firearms-education-program-to-obtain-initial-firearms-purchaser-identification-card-and-permi/

 

I kept searching and couldn't find it. I apologize, must not have looked back far enough.

 

Edit: I didn't look under....  Suggest a Bill for discussion

[InFamous 311]

I'd assume "hehe" that your certification would be immediate upon completion of the course. Which would be a no big deal. Also, yes I'd also hope current FPID holders would be exempt.

[PeteF 1,044]

Yeah as soon as mandatory training to speak or practice a religion passes.

[302w 83]

Problem is, other than basic right infringement going on, we all know that they will find a way to screw us all over with this. Such as training is once a year in Cape May with limited class sizes.

[melrose 0]

I'm all for safety but any gun related legislation proposed by NJ Democrats automatically raises red flags and puts me on the defensive.

[n4p226r 105]

the amount of "pro gun" people on the RTSP facebook post about that were all for it disturbs and disgusts me beyond belief.  

[jackandjill 683]

That is the weakness in people psychology. Everyone thinks they are better and *others* need training, coaching or controls.  Thats why stupid sh*t like this will pass. FUDDs, Mom/Pops, Ego Maniacs - pretty much everyone who never REALLY thought about 2A will vote for this.  Then we wonder why NJ is the arm pit of America. <end of rant>

 

Remember folks, there are lot more criminals than law abiding citizens out there with handguns. And those criminals are carrying, with no regard to law, process or punishment. They dont give a f&ck about training.

[Howard 538]

the amount of "pro gun" people on the RTSP facebook post about that were all for it disturbs and disgusts me beyond belief.  

I think the majority of those people are confusing a mandate with a suggestion.  Yes it is a very good idea for anyone to get training before using a firearm, but that should be left to the user.  I know I spent about 20 hours watching YouTube training videos before touching a gun.  But to mandate it seems to violate the Constitution.  I understand there are many that would like to see the Constitution changed, but the way it stands it such a requirement (and most things done by 0bamba) violates the Constitution. 

[n4p226r 105]

I think the majority of those people are confusing a mandate with a suggestion.  Yes it is a very good idea for anyone to get training before using a firearm, but that should be left to the user.  I know I spent about 20 hours watching YouTube training videos before touching a gun.  But to mandate it seems to violate the Constitution.  I understand there are many that would like to see the Constitution changed, but the way it stands it such a requirement (and most things done by 0bamba) violates the Constitution. 

none of those people were confused.  they were 100% for it and understood what it meant.  

[Howard 538]

none of those people were confused.  they were 100% for it and understood what it meant.  

Well if that is the case it is very sad!

[Bully 749]

I think the majority of those people are confusing a mandate with a suggestion.  Yes it is a very good idea for anyone to get training before using a firearm, but that should be left to the user.  I know I spent about 20 hours watching YouTube training videos before touching a gun.  But to mandate it seems to violate the Constitution.  I understand there are many that would like to see the Constitution changed, but the way it stands it such a requirement (and most things done by 0bamba) violates the Constitution.

Thank you, Howard.

 

The problem is that folks mix up a privilege (ie: driver's license) with a right (ie: firearms ownership). To practice a privilege, training is and should be required. To practice a right, no such requirement should be present. The fact that anyone on here would even consider condoning something like this makes me realize how lost we are.

 

http://napavalleyregister.com/news/opinion/mailbag/difference-between-individual-rights-and-privileges/article_07f76ae8-4029-11e3-926c-001a4bcf887a.html

[PD2K 115]

Total BS...another infringement on our rights.

[carl_g 568]

the amount of "pro gun" people on the RTSP facebook post about that were all for it disturbs and disgusts me beyond belief.

Agreed. .I commented on that telling them they are crazy.. I want to note that same sentiment was echoed here on a similar thread a week or two ago.

[Howard 538]

Perhaps this should be the class:

 

http://www.youtube.com/embed/VpJpBWFiqPc

[DeerSlayer 241]

I haven't seen this posted but was curious what everyone thinks.

 

 

 

http://www.guns.com/2014/11/04/new-jersey-lawmakers-seek-mandatory-training-for-potential-gun-owners/

 

I see the good and the bad in it. I think all gun owners should be 100% up on gun safety, especially around children. If it's an "initial" type training I'm actually okay with it. If they make you do training every time you apply for a P2P or have to get a new FPID because you moved then that's overboard.

Do they required you to take a training class to exercise your right to free speech? "Shall not be infringed" training is an infringement. Should gun owners be trained? Absolutely! But its not the governments place to force the issue upon the gun owners. Its your choice to make if you want training or not. Do they have a bill to make it mandatory that everyone with children take a class to learn how to keep their kitchen cabinet doors secure so kids cant drink draino? After all "its for the children". Its bullshit and goes against the bill of rights.

[RUTGERS95 890]

absolutely an infringement and will be used to the gun grabbers end means

[Guest]

training should be mandatory every 2-3 years while in school. Book, videos and some touching while in grade school and actual shooting in the upper grades. By the time they graduate they will have a full understanding of the operation and safety of all firearms.

[DaveR 42]

I trust that those that already have an FPID don't need to complete this training.... that they are "grandfathered..."    Not that it makes it any better... but...

 

Wouldn't bet on it.  When Jersey decided to require training for boat licenses there was no grandfathering.  You had to take the class and pass the test or lose your current boat license.

[WhiskeyTangoFoxtrot 358]

Training will be held on third Thursday of each month.

People whose last name begins with A-M will be allowed to attend on odd number months.

People whose last name begins with N-Z will be allowed to attend on even number months.

Limited slots.  No walk-on's will be permitted.

[jtd771 18]

One class to be held on the fifth Tuesday of February each year limited to 8 students.

[jtd771 18]

Training will be held on third Thursday of each month.

People whose last name begins with A-M will be allowed to attend on odd number months.

People whose last name begins with N-Z will be allowed to attend on even number months.

Limited slots.  No walk-on's will be permitted

Beat me to it, I was one minute behind.

[WhiskeyTangoFoxtrot 358]

Beat me to it, I was one minute behind.

 

Great minds think alike...

[HBecwithFn7 296]

Wouldn't bet on it.  When Jersey decided to require training for boat licenses there was no grandfathering.  You had to take the class and pass the test or lose your current boat license.

 

But boat licenses tended to "expire" and, thus, have a natural facility for that training. Theoretically, FPIDs do not expire. Now that doesn't mean the State might require an "endorsement" stamp of some kind, but what a bureaucratic nightmare that would become for those that issue the FPIDs.

[Babyface Finster 45]

Wouldn't bet on it.  When Jersey decided to require training for boat licenses there was no grandfathering.  You had to take the class and pass the test or lose your current boat license.

 

 

We can only hope it goes this way.  Grandfathering would be a great tactic to make sure that the more self-centered members of the gun community go along with further stripping rights from everyone else.  I guarantee that a number of our members would go along with anything as long as it doesn't affect them personally.  "I get to keep mine?  Cool.  Everyone else can go pound sand."  "If it's not a shotgun, I don't care."  "I don't have the need for more than 3 rounds of anything, so no one else should either."  And these are people who claim to be 2A supporters!  At least by subjecting everyone to the same restrictions, it may force some of these misguided individuals to take a stand. 

 

As a community, the gun owners of NJ are fragmented and the anti's know exactly how to take advantage of that. We got where we are today by generations of "reasonable" gun owners giving in to anti-gun legislation. Whether by apathy or active support, they have enabled the antis to advance to this point.  There is nothing "reasonable" about surrendering fundamental rights.  Don't give an inch!  Period. We need to fight back the existing infringements, not encourage new ones. 

 

The results of yesterday's election are less than encouraging... 

[Bully 749]

We can only hope it goes this way.  Grandfathering would be a great tactic to make sure that the more self-centered members of the gun community go along with further stripping rights from everyone else.  I guarantee that a number of our members would go along with anything as long as it doesn't affect them personally.  "I get to keep mine?  Cool.  Everyone else can go pound sand."  "If it's not a shotgun, I don't care."  "I don't have the need for more than 3 rounds of anything, so no one else should either."  And these are people who claim to be 2A supporters!  At least by subjecting everyone to the same restrictions, it may force some of these misguided individuals to take a stand. 

 

As a community, the gun owners of NJ are fragmented and the anti's know exactly how to take advantage of that. We got where we are today by generations of "reasonable" gun owners giving in to anti-gun legislation. Whether by apathy or active support, they have enabled the antis to advance to this point.  There is nothing "reasonable" about surrendering fundamental rights.  Don't give an inch!  Period. We need to fight back the existing infringements, not encourage new ones. 

 

The results of yesterday's election are less than encouraging...

 

Where's the "like" button!?!?!?