Recall Sweeney Logistics

[Newtonian 453]

I did not engage because I though through the many difficult steps. I've listed them so many times my fingers are blue. None of you guys ever address those points because the Kool-Aid has yet to wear off. The margin of victory for the supposedly "vulerable" senator alone should have given you pause. I pointed out 6-7 legislators who were significantly more vulnerable. If the response from the forums is any indication nobody was interested.

 

I can't blame you for being into those tasteful yellow tee-shirts.

 

There's a school of thought that says, "It's better to do something imperfectly than nothing perfectly." That totally misses the point. Working towards a counter-productive or impossible goal can't be better than doing nothing. 

 

Glenn, when you grow up you will learn the meaning of a very important aphorism: Discretion is the better part of valor. 

 

It's kind of rich that you blame me for "discouraging" forum members. Nobody here gives a fuck what I think.

 

But if by chance I convinced several individuals to spend those hot afternoons doing something enjoyable or productive instead of wasteful and harmful to NJ gun owners, then MISSION ACCOMPLISHED. 

 

P.S. Don't you dare blame me for the fact that you collected a paltry fraction of the signatures you required, just because I didn't buy into your cockamamie scheme. Blame yourselves.

[JohnnyB 4,320]

Angelo,

 

          The recall did not work. You were right!  Can we now PLEASE move on?  This is getting to be like the Mountain Lion thing!  I spent 2 Sundays in front of Sweeney's house

because I believe strongly that the PRNJ's stupid laws and Sweeney allowed Carol Bowne to die in her driveway. It got us a shower and a local ordinance prohibiting us from protesting

there again!.

 

           I recognize that you are a very intelligent and thoughful contributor here and I wish you would get rid of the "turncoat" and Benedict Arnold thing since you are not against us in any way!

You often give good advice and you should never stop playing Devil's Advocate as you sometimes do, because, in the end, your advice was good and we probably would have been better

off had we taken it to heart! The Turncoat and the avitar may, for some, set the stage against you before you have posted a single word. AK deserved the title "Turncoat" and the avitar. Please,

paisano, you deserve better! Per piacere, basta adesso!

[gleninjersey 2,139]

I did not engage because I though through the many difficult steps. I've listed them so many times my fingers are blue. None of you guys ever address those points because the Kool-Aid has yet to wear off. The margin of victory for the supposedly "vulerable" senator alone should have given you pause. I pointed out 6-7 legislators who were significantly more vulnerable. If the response from the forums is any indication nobody was interested.

 

I can't blame you for being into those tasteful yellow tee-shirts.

 

There's a school of thought that says, "It's better to do something imperfectly than nothing perfectly." That totally misses the point. Working towards a counter-productive or impossible goal can't be better than doing nothing. 

 

Glenn, when you grow up you will learn the meaning of a very important aphorism: Discretion is the better part of valor. 

 

It's kind of rich that you blame me for "discouraging" forum members. Nobody here gives a fuck what I think.

 

But if by chance I convinced several individuals to spend those hot afternoons doing something enjoyable or productive instead of wasteful and harmful to NJ gun owners, then MISSION ACCOMPLISHED. 

 

P.S. Don't you dare blame me for the fact that you collected a paltry fraction of the signatures you required, just because I didn't buy into your cockamamie scheme. Blame yourselves.

 

 

I don't blame you for the failure of the recall.  The majority of that failure falls upon the leaders who did not properly organize or provide direction to the volunteers.  I've said this several times.

 

I DO blame you of being one of the most negative, idea bashing and being one of the most anti pro-2nd Amendment supporters who is proud of the fact that their negativity possibly lead others NOT to take action to change things.

 

The mods should change you screen name to "Jane Fonda" and dedicate a thread of your posts to demonstrate how NOT to help or provide support.

 

I can appreciate constructive criticism but you do nothing put provide destructive criticism.  You are proud and gloating that your actions possible led to less support being provided to change the status quo?  Really?  Seriously? 

 

Thank God you weren't around to help and provide support during the American Revolution.

 

Why you continue to troll these forums is beyond me.

 

IMHO you are no friend to this cause.

[bhunted 887]

I thought AK held that position. {shrug}

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Newtonian 453]

I don't blame you for the failure of the recall.  The majority of that failure falls upon the leaders who did not properly organize or provide direction to the volunteers.  I've said this several times.

 

I DO blame you of being one of the most negative, idea bashing and being one of the most anti pro-2nd Amendment supporters who is proud of the fact that their negativity possibly lead others NOT to take action to change things.

 

The mods should change you screen name to "Jane Fonda" and dedicate a thread of your posts to demonstrate how NOT to help or provide support.

 

I can appreciate constructive criticism but you do nothing put provide destructive criticism.  You are proud and gloating that your actions possible led to less support being provided to change the status quo?  Really?  Seriously? 

 

Thank God you weren't around to help and provide support during the American Revolution.

 

Why you continue to troll these forums is beyond me.

 

IMHO you are no friend to this cause.

Glenn you may also recall the flame war between me and A.R., which was ugly, which eventually led him to post my full contact details on the forum. "Not enough people" is a cop-out. If he could have verified progress I might have joined 2-3 days for the hell of it.

 

I'd love to sit down some day with you over a beer and discuss what really happened/

[gleninjersey 2,139]

This thread?  Yes I remember it.  Got interesting around page 11. 

 

http://www.njgunforums.com/forum/index.php/topic/76134-nj2as-initiates-sweeney-recall/

 

As far as sitting down with you over a beer.  I have much better things to do with my time.  Let me be blunt.  I, and I believe many others on this forum, find your input to be less than helpful.  In times not so long ago you would have been lucky to get off with being tarred and feathered.  Why would I want to spend any time with you?

 

You appear to be an intelligent individual.  Read through my and others various posts to see what "really" happened.

[Zeke 5,504]

Hey mods.

This horse is so dead that Grisham from the REAL CSI is collecting bugs from the carcass

[gleninjersey 2,139]

Hey mods.

This horse is so dead that Grisham from the REAL CSI is collecting bugs from the carcass

LOL.  True.

 

I'm done with him.  He's either an attention whore at best or a traitor at worst.  I'm setting him on ignore until someone can show me some positive actions he's taken.  Not ideas.  Not criticizing others.  But some real effort and action that he's contributed.

[Old Glock guy 1,127]

FWIW. I have met Newtonian and swapped a few pm's with him, and he is really not a bad guy.  As someone who is approximately my contemporary (in other words, old), I think he has seen enough over the years for him to have a hard time finding cause for optimism.  I think that is a fairly common response, to shield oneself from further disappointment by maintaining a guarded pessimism.  

 

Bottom line, I believe he is a friend to our cause, but often does not come across that way for the reasons noted above. 

[njpilot 671]

Wait..... I'm late to this. .... the recall didn't work?

 

Not a path I would have taken anyway..... this is not colorado....

 

A bad plan not thought through unless it had 100 pcnt chance of succeeding

or at least a 50% chance.

[10X 3,296]

[quote name="Nickjc" post="1031978" timestamp="1459164211

 

Not a path I would have taken anyway..... this is not colorado....

 

A bad plan not thought through unless it had 100 pcnt chance of succeeding

 

Colorado tried to recall 4 legislators and failed with two of them. The margin was very thin for one of the successful recalls, and both Republican candidates elected to fill the recalled positions were replaced by Democrats just a year later, in the next general election

 

So Colorado shouldn't have tried? They didn't have a 100% chance of succeeding.

[Zeke 5,504]

All I can do is laugh at people anymore. Lol, those with all the answers are why we have the state we have.....

[Newtonian 453]

or at least a 50% chance.

I know this is a dead horse but I have not visited the forums in a while and I deserve the right to defend myself against scurrilous accusations.

 

I would have participated had I:

 

* thought it had at least a 5% chance. My unscientific, off-the-cuff calculation handicapped this at around 2,000 to one.

* not heard certain things at a meeting up here in Newton last spring that were demonstrably 100% false and remain so

 

Call me any f*****g name you want, accuse me of anything you like if it makes you feel better. I conduct my life according to reason and the moral principles that I've adopted over the years. I arrived at those principles after almost 62 years of thinking about issues, not the least of which is our "unalienable" right to keep and bear arms. 

 

 

With all due respect to those who did venture out in the south Jersey summer haze: I am under no obligation to do something I believe is ill-advised, or a waste of my time. My many posts on the "vulnerable" assembly seats -- all supported by demographics and arithmetic -- amply demonstrate that I was willing and able to participate in voting out those incumbents. I don't sit here and call you guys names for not believing in my approach.

[Newtonian 453]

This is *MY* .02 only.... 

 

I would say that in colorado there is more of a chance at successful 2A pressure that can be applied to representatives, than in NJ.  Although, the problem with CO is the problem now starting, if not well on the way with NC, too many liberal yahoos moving in.

 

That being said, this is NJ, and whether we like it or not, we *are* outnumbered.  My personal problem with this effort has been and continues to be, that unless you are well funded, organized and have a clear shot at attaining your goal, why *POKE* this guy with a stick...and in front of his house no less.

 

What you are seeing today are battles that were lost, 20 plus years ago in this state coming to fruition now.  What you are seeing is the direct result of many many years of appeasement, apathy and a downright terrible battle plans for the 2A in this state.

 

Granted, you cannot sit around and do nothing , but what you would be doing now will NOT have immediate effects, it is a long and drawn out protracted plan, *IF* you want to try and save this state.

 

Look up the RED/BLUE NJ Cunty Image -

 

 

Look at this image - this is a decent representation which I think would be rather indicative of how the 2A leans in this state.  Not only by color indicating repub/democ - but i think it is fairly accurate with how the state leans 2A wise as well in these areas.

 

What you have in this state is a saturation of left leaning liberal tendencies that by and large do not embrace, freedom, liberty self governance (ie non nanny state thoughts) etc.  The battles are for the hearts and minds of the children, I have been saying this for years, you want the 2A to thrive, engage the children WIN THEIR HEARTS AND MINDS........

 

The war being fought against the 2A nationwide and in NJ is akin to the battle against big tobacco, it is a well funded well thought out and planned execution to provide an impetus to place a stigma on firearms ownership, *IN* liberal leaning states and beyond.

 

Now look up the US Country Red Blue County Image -

 

-----------

 

Where is the 2A advancing? Look at the states in question and look at the demographics, nominally in states that have a heritage of firearms ownership.  Why is that?  The children were raised to expect firearms in the home, used them and understand them.  They then grow up to be voters etc. 

 

Now there are many things that drive a particular demographic to vote, not only the 2A.  However, that is a valid issue that you are either for and/or against. 

 

I once took umbrage to the whole 'FUDD' arguement, but I witnessed it first hand in a conversation with someone.  Mind blown.....

 

This all being said, what has been done with this failed effort -  is to solidify sweeney and his type in the legislature, to lean *with* the -fudd- mentality, if at all and paint those that think of the 2A more than your hunting shotgun/rifle etc. (which we know it is) as whackos.

 

Again for me, this state is lost and I truly do not wish to "fight" for this state, there are many reasons to leave, 2A being one of them.

 

When you are in an untenable position, it is better to retreat to friendlier areas and fight from there.  Once again this is a generational war and the current generation(s) in NJ have been lost.  They can be recaptured, but the fruits of that work will not be yielded for quite some time.

 

So given you initial comment, should we do nothing?  No.  But we must not react with emotion, but must react with logic.  It was not logical to attempt the recall on sweeney as the chance of success was slim to none, IMO. 

 

“Victorious warriors win first and then go to war, while defeated warriors go to war first and then seek to win”

― Sun Tzu, The Art of War

Great post from the voice of reason and NJ's #1 CZ slide spring expert. Wanna borrow my Benedict Arnold avatar?

[gleninjersey 2,139]

Nick, while the recall effort was started by a 2A group it was about more than just guns. I, and many other signature collectors, hardly ever mentioned firearms when we were collecting signatures.

 

I mostly talked about taxes, the high cost of living in NJ and companies /jobs fleeing NJ. I explained that we were attempting to tecall Sweeney to send a.message to ALL politicians that the citizens are fed up with ALL of them.

 

Perhaps we were ahead of our time. With the upswell of support of a nonpolitician (Trump) and a general consensus of anger towards ALL politicians that we are seeing in the primaries perhaps the rest of the country is starting to get it. It's not just the Dems / Libs who are ruining America. It's both sides.

 

Yes the recall effort was poorly organized and ran. Yes people in NJ are very apathetic (both to volunteer and to change the status quo). Yes NJ is liberal. Are these all reasons to sit back and not do anything as your rights are infringed upon (First and Second in Sweeney's case)? As the already heaviest tax burden increases year after year? As more jobs leave NJ? As career politicians continue to do little to correct things? No, no and no.

 

Hopefully some of the people I met while knocking on doors become active in making a positive change. Perhaps some people who refused to sign the petition start to question more issues rather than blinding accepting what they are being told. Did the recall effort succeed? No, obviously not. But I don't think it was a complete failure. There are A LOT of unhappy voters out there. Hopefully we reached a few. As you said, this was one battle that will be built upon.

[Newtonian 453]

Nick, while the recall effort was started by a 2A group it was about more than just guns. I, and many other signature collectors, hardly ever mentioned firearms when we were collecting signatures.

 

I mostly talked about taxes, the high cost of living in NJ and companies /jobs fleeing NJ. I explained that we were attempting to tecall Sweeney to send a.message to ALL politicians that the citizens are fed up with ALL of them.

Well put and good explanation of your position. Problem is the effort involved in recalling a prominent politician is massive. Our tax, crime, jobs, and COL problems emanate from the liberal/immigrant culture that has dominated NJ for decades, not as the result of any single person holding office. 

 

The legislature in NJ rules, and unfortunately you can't change the composition of a state legislature through recall unless you have the power to make time stand still. How did Colorad's recalls do, aside from getting even with a couple of jerks?  Despite the ludicrous claim (which I heard with my very own ears not one mile from where I currently sit) that the entire process would take "three months," in reality it takes at least nine, probably more. By the time you recall enough people to effect a Republican majority (and the notion that that would save us is highly doubtful in this state) the first guy you got in has been ousted and you have to start all over again. 

 

Curious about why you treat Nick respectfully but choose to insult me.

 

Oh I forgot you've black listed me.