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AVB-AMG

If you can only have one shotgun for clays?

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On 10/21/2015 at 4:32 PM, Parker said:

I've tried to wrap my head around liking black plastic or camo clad guns, I just can't bring myself to liking them. There is something about the look of polished and blued steel, with finely fitted walnut. I'm just a sucker for traditional guns.

Parker:

I share your aesthetic preference for a more traditional shotgun look of a brushed, satin or polished metal receiver and a polished figured wood stock and fore-end. That look has transcended fleeting fashion fads and is reflected in the higher $ value of used shotguns.

Having said that, I also appreciate smooth, clean looking receivers, as opposed to highly figured engraved ones that may appear heavily ornamented. Again, this is just my personal preference....

AVB-AMG

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Parker:

 

I share your aesthetic preference for a more traditional shotgun look of a brushed, satin or polished metal receiver and a polished figured wood stock and fore-end. That look has transcended fleeting fashion fads and is reflected in the higher $ value of used shotguns.

 

Having said that, I also appreciate smooth, clean looking receivers, as opposed to highly figured engraved ones that may appear heavily ornamented. Again, this is just my personal preference....

 

AVB-AMG

 

 

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A modicum of engraving on a blued or satin chromium nitride finish is acceptable. Full flourish engraving is nice (expensive!) and while pretty to look at, some can be overdone. 

 

A family member has an early 60's Browning Superposed 3-barreled skeet set in Browning's famed Diana Grade that he's used on the skeet range for years. The heavily burled walnut mated with the metal engraving makes the gun spectacular to look at. To say I lust for that gun is an understatement. 

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On 11/1/2015 at 7:52 PM, rifleman said:

The best part of fancy engraving is it hides scratches. Much preferred over a plain receiver with a big ol sctatch. Check the fine guns at Griffin and Howe. 

rifleman:

That is a good point...   

BTW - I visited the retail store of Griffin and Howe in Bernardsville, NJ a couple of weekends ago.  That visit was also suggested to me by one of the instructors at GFH/Woodland Park Range when I attended their members outing up at Fairfield Farms Trap, back on Oct. 16th.

 I have to say that they have a very impressive selection of mid-range to very, very high-end shotguns, with prices to match!  I was very appreciative that they were very helpful and demonstrated quite a few distinctions between a number of shotguns that I am considering, as well as added some new contenders to my list, including a Caesar Guerrini.  (Why is it that the some of the nicest shotguns are made in Italy, just like some of the most beautiful automobiles.....?)

 

As a result of this visit, I have decided to take a lesson and "test drive" a number of shotguns at the Griffin & Howe Shooting School in Andover, NJ., as part of my exploration of the feel of various different shotguns.  I will report back what I have discovered.
 

AVB-AMG

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On 11/5/2015 at 8:26 AM, Parker said:

AVB-AMG,

 

Give a call to Steve Cobb down in Bedminster. He has a small but eclectic collection of old and new guns that are worth looking at. (PS - He's a birddog man too. )

 

http://stevecobbguns.com

Parker:

I just checked out his web site and he has some beautiful shotguns, covering a broad price range! Thank you for the referral.

AVB-AMG

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Tfunge:

As I understand it, Remington produced the Model 3200 over/under shotgun in a number of variants from 1974 through 1983, starting at around $450 and by the end of the model run in 1983 could run as high as $1,000. Remington offered variations of this model that changed each year either in features, finishes or barrel lengths. Many folks considered it an excellent trap gun, but it is a big and heavy gun and much bigger and heavier than a sporting or sporting clays gun.

There was a class action lawsuit, (referred to as the Garza lawsuit), that was brought against Remington back in the late 1980’s. The lawsuit claimed that Remington shotgun barrels used for Models 1100, 1187, 870 and 3200 shotguns were made of an inferior grade of steel. Remington was found guilty and they paid a prorated settlement to people who wanted to jump onto the suit.  Remington did a recall and refitted some guns. Today, I understand that if you have a 3200 O/U that was not factory refitted, it may possibly cost around $700-$800, plus shipping and handling $100.00 to have the gun refitted and there's only several gunsmiths that will do the work.

Since it is such a heavy gun, along with the manufacturing issues, I would not consider purchasing one.
Also, my preference is to buy a new shotgun, to get the manufacturer's warranty.

AVB-AMG

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The Remington 3200 was a good gun, but maligned with a few problems that the company acknowledged and redesigned for and/or fixed over the years of production. The rear tang was weak, the forend would bend, the firing pins would get stuck in the breech face. (These were on guns that saw a lot of use on the trap and skeet fields which is what the gun was designed for. It was a bit ponderous for an upland field gun though unless you sported 19" arms.) Remington never really managed a real hit with an over & under and the 3200 never really won hearts like the Model 32.

 

DuPont sold Remington's Model 32 patent to a company called Kreighoff, and the legendary K32 was born. 

http://njgunforums.com/forum/index.php/topic/33596-looking-for-a-remington-12-gauge-over-and-under/

 

 

 

 

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I'm probably going to get a Silver Pigeon.  It's the best one in the range I'm comfortable spending in.  How was the shooting school with Griffin Howe?

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Rob0115:
 
I have been very impressed with the Griffin & Howe Shooting School in Andover, NJ.  While it is not inexpensive it really is a first-class operation and their sporting clay set up is like a top-notch golf club, but for shotguns / sporting clays.  I have taken a number of sporting clay lessons there, where I have been able to "test drive" a number of shotguns from their wide selection.
 
Shooting there this past fall with the trees leaves changing colors, was a spectacular background in temperate weather conditions, complimenting the very helpful one-on-one instruction that I really benefited from.  I have learned much from them and plan to take some additional instruction as my time (and finances) allow.
 
Based on this, as well as some here have suggested, I have decided to splurge, going beyond my original budget for a shotgun to purchase a high-quality gun.  I have recently purchased a new:
Beretta 692 Sporting O/U 12-gauge shotgun (30" barrel).  It has a light natural stained Turkish walnut stock and fore end.
Here is a link to this model featured on the Beretta web site:
 
http://www.beretta.com/en-us/692/#Main
 
This was an early Christmas present to myself and my credit card now has a sizable balance that will take a number of months to pay off...
 
I realized that I will be using this shotgun approximately 80% of the time for sporting clays and 10% for Trap and 10% for Skeet.  Most importantly, as determined by others more proficient and knowledgeable about these things than me, the gun fits me, for the most part.  If I so desire, with minor modification it can be made even better, but that will be done after I have had more time shooting it.  I am very impressed with the quality fit and finish and I have been pretty accurate with it so far, something that I expect will improve with some more instruction and much more practice...  I had read online that some folks had some issues with the extractors on the 692's, but that was with some of the earlier production models and that Beretta has tweaked them to address the issue and that they now work as intended.  At the G&H Shooting School, they have over 10,000 shots through a number of these guns without any malfunction issues, so that is reassuring to me. 
 
I am sure that this shotgun, with proper cleaning and care, will last me for as long as I am shooting.
 
AVB-AMG

 

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I got fitted for a gun at G&H. It was expensive, but came with a mini lesson. Beautiful clays course. Nice folks and very professional, but too upscale for my tastes.

The 692 is a really nice gun. The new feature for turning ejectors i to extractors had some problems. I think it had to do with an o-ring. But Beretta probably has that worked out by now. I own the prior equivalent model, the 682 Gold E Sporting, and it is a great gun. Enjoy!

 

 

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Rob0115 & lunker: Thank you....

I am very pleased with this choice. I shot some other beautiful, low production, finely crafted shotguns in the same price range but decided that the Beretta fit me the best. I can empathize with you guys as to why you both either bought or are considering a Beretta. While it is an expensive gun I did get what I consider a good deal.

But accessorizing for sporting clays also can add up...

I now will be in my thrifty mode for the next 4-6 months as I pay down my c.c. bill.

AVB-AMG

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Rob0115 & linker: Thank you.... I am very pleased with this choice. I shot some other beautiful, low production, finely crafted shotguns in the same price range but decided that the Berettas fit me the best. I can empathize with you guys as to why you both either bought or are considering a Beretta. While it is an expensive gun I did get what I consider a good deal. But accessorizing for sporting clays also can add up... I now will be in my thrifty mode for the next 4-6 months as I pay down my c.c. bill. AVB-AMG

 

Good for you and just think of the hours of fun ahead with that new shotgun.  I contacted Griffin & Howe about some lessons for my wife and I, very excited to go.

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I need to continue to practice the fundamentals that I have learned so I plan to resume some lessons at G&H in January, after the Christmas / New Year's holiday and into the first quarter of 2016.

With this unseasonably mild weather possibly continuing into January, it will be nice to be outside more that most of us have been in previous January's....

AVB-AMG

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On 12/11/2015 at 5:21 PM, lunker said:

I got fitted for a gun at G&H. It was expensive, but came with a mini lesson. Beautiful clays course. Nice folks and very professional, but too upscale for my tastes.

The 692 is a really nice gun. The new feature for turning ejectors i to extractors had some problems. I think it had to do with an o-ring. But Beretta probably has that worked out by now. I own the prior equivalent model, the 682 Gold E Sporting, and it is a great gun. Enjoy!

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

 

On 12/12/2015 at 9:32 AM, Rob0115 said:

Good for you and just think of the hours of fun ahead with that new shotgun.  I contacted Griffin & Howe about some lessons for my wife and I, very excited to go.

 

lunker & Rob0115:

I also got my shotgun professionally fitted at G&H/Hudson Farm over the past three months, as well has taking additional lessons.

Yes, it was expensive, more than I had anticipated, but I feel it was well worth it, along with the valuable one-on-one instruction of the important fundamentals that I can now practice on my own, as well as enjoying the beautiful setting of Hudson Farm.

Going through the process of measurements and shooting at a pattern board, then subsequently having their gunsmith bending my stock slightly, along with adding a 1/4" thick pad to the recoil pad on the butt of the stock, has really made a noticeable and positive difference in my consistent accuracy.

BTW - I have also joined the Lehigh Valley Sporting Clays Club & Range in Coplay, PA and go there to practice once a month, which is much more reasonably priced and only about a one and a half hour drive from my NJ home.  FYI - Here is a link to their web site:

http://www.lvsclays.com/

Recently, as co-mingled birthday gifts to my wife, sister and brother-in-law, I treated them to a 4-hr. group lesson with the same G&H instructor I have been using and whom I greatly respect, to introduce them to Sporting Clays, as well as to de-mystify what shooting a shotgun is all about.  They were provided with shotguns that were appropriately sized for them, (20 & 28 gage), which was important for a first time shooter.  I was pleasantly surprised to discover that all three of them really enjoyed the experience and now have a better appreciation of what this form of gun sport is all about.  They would also like to do it again...    :good:

AVB-AMG

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Today, Sunday, March 18th, I attended a 50-Clay Shoot for 40 shooters at Griffin & Howe at Hudson Farm in Andover, NJ.  The event was to celebrate Griffin & Howe's recent partnership with James Purdey & Sons, considered one of the finest, if not the finest gunmaker in England.  They had on display over 40 Purdey O/U and Side-By-Side shotguns, that had incredible detail resulting from a very high level of painstaking workmanship.  It was fun to handle and oogle them, but that is as far as I can take it since they are priced from around $50,000 to over $120,000 each.  I know that they will not make me a more accurate clay shooter but, just like a Ferrari or Bugatti automobile, I certainly do appreciate the time and effort of the expertise of the craftsmen who created and produced such fine detailing, fit and finish that resulted in each exquisit shotgun.

For the sporting clay shoot, we all arrived around 9:00 a.m. and my car thermometer read 21 deg. F. outside.  While I have shot outside in temperatures in the mid-30's, this was by far the coldest day I have gone shooting outside.  At least we were dressed warmly so once underway we were fine on this crisp cold, clear and sunny day.  The first 3-4 stations for our group of 4 were very challenging due to their facing east and the clay launchers sending the clays up high, with the sun right in our line of sight, making aiming very difficult.  For those of you who have shot sporting clays at Hudson Farm, you know that their course is one of the most interesting and well manicured setups in the northeast U.S.  IMHO, Hudson Farm, along with the Orvis Sandanona Shooting Grounds in Millbrook, NY are two of the finest sporting clay courses in the northeast U.S.  Even with the remaining snow coverage, each shooting station was clearly very carefully planned and created to provide a unique shooting experience, incorporating the beautiful natural topography of the surrounding landscape.  They also incorporated green, black and orange clay disks at different stations for added variety.

Afterwards, for lunch they provided a very nice spread of various hors d'oeuvres that included wild game meats, along with beer and wine.  The representatives from G&H and James Purdey & Sons answered questions about their guns for sale, gunsmithing services, gun fitting and shooting school.  All in all, a very civilized outing on a very brisk morning.

Over the past three years at Griffin & Howe at Hudson Farm has consolidated all of their operations from Bedminster, NJ and Greenwich, CT to the 3,800 acre Hudson Farm in Andover, NJ.  Over this same time frame, I have taken multiple private clay shooting lessons; hosted a group clay shooting lesson for my wife and my sister/brother-in-law; had my new shotgun fitted by them and have used their gunsmith services, all of which have been excellent and most appreciated.  While not inexpensive, from my experience they know what they are doing regarding sales, instruction and servicing and are a very dependable, high quality resource for shotgun and long gun enthusiasts in northern NJ.

I am curious if any other NJGF members also attended this event or other charity shooting events here or have used G&H's services recently.  I know that Parker has, as well as fishnut has in the past and also had a good experience with them, specifically getting help with his 1933 Winchester model 21.  Any others? 

AVB-AMG

If you are interested, here is a link to their website:

http://griffinhowe.com/

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At a $100 to $125 a 100 clay round, that is just a little over the top IMHO.  Not to mention their attire and shotshell regulations.  Definitely priced to keep the average Joe out.  Everybody appreciates a finely crafted firearm, but for me G&H is way above the common man's budget.  No Thanks.  

For me, I have Beretta, Benelli, and Ruger to pick from when I go shooting clays.  Somehow the Ruger RL is always the most comfortable.

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I visited their Bedminster store once before it closed.   Extremely cool!   It was like a wonderful old gun museum, only you could handle the exhibits.   

Anything under $100,000, they had out on racks right on the showroom floor, and you could handle to your hearts content (no need to show an FID here!)   The expensive stuff they had in display cases, and you had to ask first.   When I was there, the most expensive item seemed to be a gorgeous old Perazzi double set, with barrels in several gauges, for almost $300,000.

Man, if I'd just hung onto all the money I spent buying my first home and the five new cars I've bought in my lifetime...nevermind, all that still wouldn't have covered the cost of the Perazzi.   

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Hudson is very expensive...not even taking into account their plastic wad rule.   And if i recall it’s not exactly like you can walk on anytime you want.    I’ve shot their twice once for a charity event and once because i won a round there in an auction.    Uber classy place but I’d take the Orvis spot upstate hands down every time for the “common” folk.

(and watching them train dogs at Orvis On that field...man I can watch that all day)

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Hudson is very expensive...not even taking into account their plastic wad rule.   And if i recall it’s not exactly like you can walk on anytime you want.    I’ve shot their twice once for a charity event and once because i won a round there in an auction.    Uber classy place but I’d take the Orvis spot upstate hands down every time for the “common” folk.

(and watching them train dogs at Orvis On that field...man I can watch that all day)

I can... all about who you know. Lol

 

 

Yes I've shot there before, and ran my dogs there in the past for them. It's in my town. I live 5 minutes away from Hudson Farm. I have friends that are employed there as well.

 

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