D.C. Revisited

[DirtyDigz 1,811]

Yes, great for D.C.

 

How do we get this opinion recognized in/applied to NJ?

[CMJeepster 2,777]

Yes, great for D.C.

 

How do we get this opinion recognized in/applied to NJ?

The same way that Heller & McDonald worked.  With the looming appointment of an opponent of firearms upon us, I doubt the Supreme Court would take the case and I highly doubt that it would turn out like we all would like it to.

[maintenanceguy 510]

Let's hope that Trump wins (I can't believe I said that) and appoints some very conservative justices to the Supreme Court before this makes it there. Of course, NJ will ignore it just like they've ignored Heller.

[springfieldxds 0]

im lost, didnt a judge just rule that dc law was constitutional? and now this judge is basically ruling the opposite way for the same law, so which judge has authority?  who does dc have to listen to?  cant they just listen to the Clinton appointed  judge who ruled that the law was fine?

[Ricky_Bobby 130]

Circuit Court of Appeals ruled unconstitutional.  So next step is Supreme Court, no?

 

And yes its laughable that NJ will just whisk away justifiable need because of a ruling like Heller, McDonald, or this, hilarious.  They could care less.  New York could go constitutional carry but some idiot in Trenton will be standing firm with Sandy Hook mothers.

[djg0770 481]

Circuit Court of Appeals ruled unconstitutional.  So next step is Supreme Court, no?

 

And yes its laughable that NJ will just whisk away justifiable need because of a ruling like Heller, McDonald, or this, hilarious.  They could care less.  New York could go constitutional carry but some idiot in Trenton will be standing firm with Sandy Hook mothers.

 

In the event that the Supreme court refuses to take the case then the lower court's ruling remains in effect.

[mikelets456 78]

Again, you just don't get it. Read my goddamned posts and stop talking like a bratty teenager.

 

I hope your life is full of people who meet all your expectations all the time. I hope you never have to cajole or negotiate with people who are only out for themselves. Because otherwise you will be very, very unhappy.

 

I agree, I'm trying to figure out why you're all arguing "fine points" when all Newtonian is stating is "this is what we have to work with...get to it".I'm not a fan of Christie, but in my 35 years as a NJ citizen, he's the only one remotely close to supporting the 2A....not a lot, but at least workable. At least it's something, but there's a lot of work to be done. Heck, you have a more conservative Gov in NJ than we do in PA. However, you're NOT going to change laws because you've changed a few seats and even a governor. You MUST (MUST!!!!) change the hearts and minds of the people. I've said it a million times, if each gun owner took 3-4 people to the range in 1 year, you could possibly quadruple "pro-gun" citizens---one year! This is the fastest and probably best way to change the state. It's estimated PA has 40% (plus) gun ownership and the politicians are pressured to support this "right". Heck, there's even numerous "pro-gun" Democrats, because it's a heritage and part of life. Believe me, changing the citizens to support guns will go much, much further than flipping a few seats.

 

I see this BS on gun forum sites with people posting and arguing instead of actually doing something. Get people out to the range then talk to them about why guns are important, know the statistics and evangelize on the "whys, hows and whats" of gun ownership. Please...we're ALL running out of time and if one state falls, they all eventually fall. Get to work!

[Ricky_Bobby 130]

I agree, I'm trying to figure out why you're all arguing "fine points" when all Newtonian is stating is "this is what we have to work with...get to it".I'm not a fan of Christie, but in my 35 years as a NJ citizen, he's the only one remotely close to supporting the 2A....not a lot, but at least workable. At least it's something, but there's a lot of work to be done. Heck, you have a more conservative Gov in NJ than we do in PA. However, you're NOT going to change laws because you've changed a few seats and even a governor. You MUST (MUST!!!!) change the hearts and minds of the people. I've said it a million times, if each gun owner took 3-4 people to the range in 1 year, you could possibly quadruple "pro-gun" citizens---one year! This is the fastest and probably best way to change the state. It's estimated PA has 40% (plus) gun ownership and the politicians are pressured to support this "right". Heck, there's even numerous "pro-gun" Democrats, because it's a heritage and part of life. Believe me, changing the citizens to support guns will go much, much further than flipping a few seats.

 

I see this BS on gun forum sites with people posting and arguing instead of actually doing something. Get people out to the range then talk to them about why guns are important, know the statistics and evangelize on the "whys, hows and whats" of gun ownership. Please...we're ALL running out of time and if one state falls, they all eventually fall. Get to work!

 

^^^This is the best point I've ever read and is 100% true.  Changing politicians won't do it.  We need to change the culture in this state.  Talking guns in public (i.e. not at the range) is almost "taboo", don't think so, try it next time you are out to eat and having a conversation with your buddies about your guns.  Look around you and see how many people are paying attention and may look a bit uncomfortable.  Its baffling.

 

The women and youth (and I'm only 29) in this state are the only hope, and we need to talk, eat, sleep, and breathe our freedoms every day.  I routinely wear shirts supporting 2A, patriotic values, etc, and I've noticed that it gets attention, and all positive.  People WANT to talk about their freedoms and love to see people expressing them. 

 

If women would flip the "stereotype" by the wayside and become real gun enthusiasts and advocates for shooting and firearms (GREAT job at GFH doing this btw!) over the next couple years we'll have a hell of a lot more chance than just getting a different governor.

 

Looking for something to do with a group of friends?  Instead of going golfing or to AC, go to the gun range for the day!  Let your buddies shoot your guns if you can so you can "hook them up" by not having to rent.  Have them bring their girlfriends, don't make it a strictly "guys day out" -

 

Talking to someone at work who doesn't own a FPID and is interested in firearms and shooting and just says "ah I never shot before, I'm too old, my wife doesnt like guns" etc - take them both to the range one day or get them a gift card for an hour of port time - guarantee you they will go and love it.

 

Absolutely 100% right above me.

[Newtonian 453]

You guys must know a breed of Homo Newjersiensis that I have never encountered: individuals with open minds about firearms. 80%% of the folks I know fall into the "hate" category, about 10% in the "love" category, the rest are hunters

 

And in my experience never the twain shall meet. Not saying this to convince you not to try (because I have many, many times and will continue to do so), but just sayin'. 

[Kevin125 4,772]

You guys must know a breed of Homo Newjersiensis that I have never encountered: individuals with open minds about firearms. 80%% of the folks I know fall into the "hate" category, about 10% in the "love" category, the rest are hunters

 

And in my experience never the twain shall meet. Not saying this to convince you not to try (because I have many, many times and will continue to do so), but just sayin'. 

 

Most people are just ignorant of firearms.. the way cavemen are ignorant of electric stoves and automobiles.   They only know what they've heard on the news.

 

A good way to introduce them is to take them to a local shooting match.  Ranges are generally open to the public those days.  They'll see men, women, some kids..all shooting and having a good time.  They'll also see people serious about firearms safety.

 

If it happens to be your range you're visiting, you can let them do a little shooting if other parts of the range are not being used for the match.  I'd bet that that a lot of these guests will be itching to shoot a little after watching an IDPA, Steel, USPSA or rifle match.

 

Just a suggestion.

[bzer1 15]

Most people are just ignorant of firearms.. the way cavemen are ignorant of electric stoves and automobiles.   They only know what they've heard on the news.

 

I've found that a good belly laugh after they regurgitate gun grabber falsehoods then (while still laughing) oh my god, where did you hear that? Then proceed to say something like...Oh let me give you some facts, or Sorry that is simply not true, here are the facts. The laughing gets their attention and automatically makes their info suspect in their own mind. Kind of opens them up for a few well placed truth bombs.

[Newtonian 453]

Most people are just ignorant of firearms.. the way cavemen are ignorant of electric stoves and automobiles.   They only know what they've heard on the news.

 

A good way to introduce them is to take them to a local shooting match.  Ranges are generally open to the public those days.  They'll see men, women, some kids..all shooting and having a good time.  They'll also see people serious about firearms safety.

 

If it happens to be your range you're visiting, you can let them do a little shooting if other parts of the range are not being used for the match.  I'd bet that that a lot of these guests will be itching to shoot a little after watching an IDPA, Steel, USPSA or rifle match.

 

Just a suggestion.

"A little knowledge," even if totally false, never prevented anyone from forming strong, immutable positions. Facts don't matter. 

 

Imagine the reaction on here if someone were to post a link to a study hinting that some aspect of gun control works. Let's just say. It would take about 5 responses before the thread degenerated into a 7th-grade name calling contest. The OP, regardless of his bona fides, would become a traitor. 

 

You were on these forums when the "recall" was going on. Remember some of the things that were posted about individuals (including, especially me) who spoke out against it?

 

If all of the 8 or 9 individuals I've invited accepted, were converted, I do not believe a single one would change his/her vote in the next election based on their new-found love of shooting.

[Zeke 5,504]

" hey Nieghbor, when can I take you to the range?"

100% success rate so far.( I also snowblow everybody's sidewalk).....

[gleninjersey 2,139]

When I first started getting into firearms a few years ago my wife didn't want me talking to anyone about it. It would seem to come up one way or another when we got together with friends. A few, "Some friends went skeet shooting and had a great time. I couldn't make but have always wanted to try shooting but don't know anyone with guns." to discussions about guns where someone would inevitably say "I don't know why someone needs a assualt rifle / machine gun!?"

 

I would bite my tongue but eventually she realized, as I had been explaining to her, that most people simply are misinformed or have no one to go to who knows what they are talking about.

 

At one get together there were more than a few people who were "I wish I knew someone who ownned guns so they would take me shooting." type discussions. She just looked at me and said, "Okay, go ahead".

 

There are A LOT of people in NJ who are looking for an opportunity to learn about firearms. They just don't know who to talk to. I've helped one friend get his FID and fist pistol. He recently purchased an AR. I'll hopefully be taking at least two husbands and wives to the range later this year.

 

BE the person your friends and coworkers can turn to. You'll be surprised how many are positively receptive than negatively. Don't waste your time or stress levels on the negative ones.

[mipafox 438]

I've probably converted about 20 Jersians. If they started 0 to 4 on a pro-scale of 10, I landed them 4 to 10. You need to talk about it whenever it comes up, and don't get heated on your end if they start arguing. Stress that most people in the Country own guns (unlike the Social Service Survey) and people carry guns in public in 47 states and it causes no problems. They need to understand that gun ownership and carry are normal, and it causes no problems. Not convinced that guns are good or bad. Although it doesn't hurt to point out that Obama's capstone gun violence research project determined that guns are used to prevent violence up to 72 times as often as they are used to cause violence, and certainly at least as often (uncertainty in the studies). That's the worst this Liberty hating POS could come up with.

[gleninjersey 2,139]

Mipa (and anyone else who cares to), feel free to share this article. I puts defensive gun use (DGU) around 250,000 - 375k a year.

 

The left says 100k, the far right 2 million. The 250k - 375k is a range many social scientist find plausible.

 

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2012-12-27/how-often-do-we-use-guns-in-self-defense

[intercooler 41]

In the event that the Supreme court refuses to take the case then the lower court's ruling remains in effect.

if the supremes don't hear it, the NJ law will have to be quashed on federal level (its a precedent). if they do, they can reverse it or affirm it...that is what the last act is

[CMJeepster 2,777]

Mipa (and anyone else who cares to), feel free to share this article. I puts defensive gun use (DGU) around 250,000 - 375k a year.

 

The left says 100k, the far right 2 million. The 250k - 375k is a range many social scientist find plausible.

 

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2012-12-27/how-often-do-we-use-guns-in-self-defense

http://www.reddit.com/r/dgu

[n4p226r 105]

if the supremes don't hear it, the NJ law will have to be quashed on federal level (its a precedent). if they do, they can reverse it or affirm it...that is what the last act is

. If the Supreme Court doesn't hear it then it means nothing for NJ. If they do hear it and rule 4-4 then it means nothing in NJ

[gleninjersey 2,139]

http://www.reddit.com/r/dgu

"NOBODY uses their guns to defend themselves!" ....Except the quarter to a third of a million people who do.

 

I'm hopeful justifiable need is overturned in NJ in the next 2-3 years. If the DC ruling doesn't get overturned and is upheld than NJ WILL eventually fall.

[maintenanceguy 510]

i

 

. If the Supreme Court doesn't hear it then it means nothing for NJ. If they do hear it and rule 4-4 then it means nothing in NJ

 

If the  Supreme Court does hear it and rules in our favor, it will still mean nothing in NJ just like Heller is blatantly violated today.

[ChrisJM981 924]

http://www.reddit.com/r/dgu

That's fantastic. I bookmarked that site for the next time some liberal states that good people don't use guns for self defense.

[CMJeepster 2,777]

That's fantastic. I bookmarked that site for the next time some liberal states that good people don't use guns for self defense.

I'd recommend not linking the entire thing, but only stories that benefit our side. You could also look at this thread: http://www.njgunforums.com/forum/index.php/topic/69120-defensive-firearm-use/

[CMJeepster 2,777]

"D.C. Attorney General Ignores Court Order, Refuses Gun Permits"

 

http://thefederalist.com/2016/05/25/dc-attorney-general-ignores-court-order-refuses-gun-permits/

[Ricky_Bobby 130]

i

 

 

If the  Supreme Court does hear it and rules in our favor, it will still mean nothing in NJ just like Heller is blatantly violated today.

 

See below.

"D.C. Attorney General Ignores Court Order, Refuses Gun Permits"

 

http://thefederalist.com/2016/05/25/dc-attorney-general-ignores-court-order-refuses-gun-permits/

NJ would be exactly the same unless there was extreme press coverage.  Even then, it probably would still be done.

[Old Glock guy 1,127]

NJ would be exactly the same unless there was extreme press coverage. Even then, it probably would still be done.

I have little doubt that that's exactly what would happen.

[maintenanceguy 510]

I guess SCOTUS really has no say in anything.  If state governments refuse to comply with the law, as interpreted by SCOTUS, what recourse is there?   It seems to be something that happens near the end of any great nation and we were unfortunately here to witness it.  The rule of law is dead in America.

[NJGF 375]

The DC Attorney General has changed his tune. They are now not denying applicants that don't have a "good reason" to carry a gun. One can only go so far in ignoring court orders.

[Zeke 5,504]

Who are we trying to protect? That should always be the answered question

[Zeke 5,504]

DC must let ex-prison guards pack heat, federal court rules http://www.foxnews.com/us/2016/06/03/dc-must-let-ex-prison-guards-pack-heat-federal-court-rules.html

 

 

 

We should learn from the groups in dc