Gun/Ammo Storage in Home

[NJGF 375]

NJ is not bad on Castle Doctrine. Basically (very basically) if you are inside your house (not outside as others have said) and in fear of your life or another persons life and have no alternative you can use deadly force as long as you were not the aggressor and if you can safely warn the perpetrator you did. The applicable statutes are at:

 

http://law.justia.com/codes/new-jersey/2013/title-2c/section-2c-3-6/

 

The burden of proof is on the state to prove you are guilty.

[Guest]

Ya that's how I understood it as well.

[InFamous 311]

From what I understand you have no duty to retreat inside your home. If you are on your property OUTSIDE your home and there is an option to retreat you must do that first before using deadly force. This is all of course if you believe you or someone else's life is in danger. 

[leahcim 679]

NJ case law has affirmed the right to stand at your threshold and use deadly force to repel an attack.

 

From State v. Martinez:

http://law.justia.com/cases/new-jersey/appellate-division-published/1989/229-n-j-super-593-0.html

 

"one has no duty to retreat from one's dwelling, but that a "dwelling" encompasses a doorway, threshold, porch or other similar appurtenance."

 

"a man need not retreat when attacked in his own dwelling house. A man is generally not bound to retreat from his house. He may stand his ground and resist an attack even to the extent of employing deadly force if he reasonably believes he is in danger of losing his life or suffering serious bodily harm. I further instruct you that the burden is upon the State to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that the defense of self protection or self defense is untrue. "

 

With caveat that Martinez was 1989 and NJ court may just ignore this inconvenient case law today.

[NJGF 375]

I think that Martinez is still applicable today. It is referenced in these standard jury instructions "JUSTIFICATION - SELF DEFENSE In Self Protection (N.J.S.A. 2C:3-4)" https://www.judiciary.state.nj.us/criminal/charges/justif001.pdf

[Scorpio64 5,147]

 

NEW JERSEY ADMINISTRATIVE CODE

TITLE 13. LAW AND PUBLIC SAFETY

CHAPTER 54. FIREARMS AND WEAPONS

 

"Weapon" means anything readily capable of lethal use or

of inflicting serious bodily injury. The term includes, but

is not limited to, all:

1. Firearms, even though not loaded or lacking a clip

or other component to render them immediately operable;

2. Components which can be readily assembled into a weapon;

 

 

 

Any person of average intelligence may extrapolate from #2 that the components in  aggregate (loaded or unloaded) comprise a weapon as defined by NJ. This is the reason we build AR uppers with threaded or 14.5" bbl before we build the lower.  If you have a stripped lower receiver and a 14.5"bbl, that counts as a SBR based on constructive intent.    If the magazine, a component that can be readily inserted into the assembly, is loaded with ammo (but not inserted into the magwel, then the courts may construe it as part of a loaded weapon.

 

In other words, the NJ definition suggests if you have a firearm (loaded or unloaded), you have a weapon.  If ANY component of that weapon (like say a magazine) is loaded, then you have a loaded weapon.  The magazine does not have to be inserted into the magwel, it just has to be in proximity to the weapon which it can be inserted.

 

If you walk around with an unloaded pistol and don't have a single round of ammo on you, that is an unloaded weapon.  If you walk around with a loaded magazine but no firearm, you do not have a loaded weapon since the components are not all in the same place.  Any time a firearm AND loaded magazine are in the same proximity, NJ considers that a loaded weapon.

 

 

[leahcim 679]

I think that Martinez is still applicable today. It is referenced in these standard jury instructions "JUSTIFICATION - SELF DEFENSE In Self Protection (N.J.S.A. 2C:3-4)" https://www.judiciary.state.nj.us/criminal/charges/justif001.pdf

I would like to believe that, but after reading 'Blue Tent Sky' I would not bet the farm on it.

[NJGF 375]

I would like to believe that, but after reading 'Blue Tent Sky' I would not bet the farm on it.

 

I absolutely agree. It all makes an interesting discussion but nothing is for sure particularly in NJ. We see this in big cities with how the police are being treated. And this only deals with the criminal side. A good chance you would be civilly sued. But it still beats being dead.

[capt14k 2,052]

NJ does not have a duty to retreat in your home. There are a few states that do require one to retreat in their own home which is ridiculous. As for loaded magazines my interpretation is if the magazines are loaded in a locked container and the handgun is unloaded in a separate locked container and you are traveling directly to and from your home and your place of business, home and range, home and FFL you are ok. As for locked container the law says bundled and tied which does sound like wrapped in newspaper and string is OK, but I wouldn't test that with loaded magazine and handgun. I usually use firesafe for magazines and handguns in locked case inside of range bag (no reason to announce I have a handgun in case being that I have a SUV). There is no reason to volunteer you have firearms in your vehicle if you get pulled over on your way from your home to one of the approved location.

 

I am not an attorney. This is just my interpretation of the statue as written.

 

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk

 

[JackDaWack 2,895]

 

 

 

 

Any person of average intelligence may extrapolate from #2 that the components in  aggregate (loaded or unloaded) comprise a weapon as defined by NJ. This is the reason we build AR uppers with threaded or 14.5" bbl before we build the lower.  If you have a stripped lower receiver and a 14.5"bbl, that counts as a SBR based on constructive intent.    If the magazine, a component that can be readily inserted into the assembly, is loaded with ammo (but not inserted into the magwel, then the courts may construe it as part of a loaded weapon.

 

In other words, the NJ definition suggests if you have a firearm (loaded or unloaded), you have a weapon.  If ANY component of that weapon (like say a magazine) is loaded, then you have a loaded weapon.  The magazine does not have to be inserted into the magwel, it just has to be in proximity to the weapon which it can be inserted.

 

If you walk around with an unloaded pistol and don't have a single round of ammo on you, that is an unloaded weapon.  If you walk around with a loaded magazine but no firearm, you do not have a loaded weapon since the components are not all in the same place.  Any time a firearm AND loaded magazine are in the same proximity, NJ considers that a loaded weapon.

 

 You listed the requirements for a weapon.... nothing more. The weapon exists prior to the attachment of a magazine.

 

The law says they must be carried unloaded.

 

g. All weapons being transported under paragraph (2) of subsection b., subsection e., or paragraph (1) or (3) of subsection f. of this section shall be carried unloaded and contained in a closed and fastened case, gunbox, securely tied package, or locked in the trunk of the automobile in which it is being transported, and in the course of travel shall include only such deviations as are reasonably necessary under the circumstances.

[Scorpio64 5,147]

This has nothing to do with magazines... or determining if a firearm is loaded.. You listed the requirements for a weapon.... nothing more. The law says they must be carried unloaded.

[JackDaWack 2,895]

I dont understand how else to explain it to you. A firearm is a weapon regardless if a magazine is attached to it. That's the defintions of a weapon outlined in title 13. That's what you cited.

 

I posted that a weapon must be carried unloaded.... How does having a loaded magazine separate from the firearm make it a loaded weapon?

 

All you did was cite the constructive intent part of the law.

 

 

" If ANY component of that weapon (like say a magazine) is loaded, then you have a loaded weapon. The magazine does not have to be inserted into the magwel, it just has to be in proximity to the weapon which it can be inserted."

 

There is not a single fact that backs this statement.

[Scorpio64 5,147]

I dont understand how else to explain it to you. A firearm is a weapon regardless if a magazine is attached to it. That's the defintions of a weapon outlined in title 13. That's what you cited.

 

I posted that a weapon must be carried unloaded.... How does having a loaded magazine separate from the firearm make it a loaded weapon?

 

All you did was cite the constructive intent part of the law.

 

In NJ, a gun is a weapon whether it's fully assembled, partially assembled or completely disassembled.  In any of the three conditions, it is a weapon.  Like it or not, that is how NJ defines a firearm.  A magazine is a component of a firearm, and as per #2 falls under the category of a component that can be readily attached.  If the readily attachable component is loaded, the law can interpret that as a loaded gun.

 

While the law does not explicitly say a loaded magazine (component) which can be quickly inserted into a magwel constitutes a loaded weapon, it is implied.   Look man, I don't like it anymore than you do and think it's par for the course concerning NJ's shittlly written laws, but it is the logical conclusion.

[siderman 1,137]

the "logical" conclusion would be a gun w/o a loaded magazine in it cant be loaded, period. I'd like to know how it can be proved "beyond a reasonable doubt"  its loaded. Logic dictates the laws of NJ dont trump the laws of physics. But I do realize this is NJ and politcal agenda can trump almost anything..... 

[JackDaWack 2,895]

In NJ, a gun is a weapon whether it's fully assembled, partially assembled or completely disassembled. In any of the three conditions, it is a weapon. Like it or not, that is how NJ defines a firearm. A magazine is a component of a firearm, and as per #2 falls under the category of a component that can be readily attached. If the readily attachable component is loaded, the law can interpret that as a loaded gun.

 

While the law does not explicitly say a loaded magazine (component) which can be quickly inserted into a magwel constitutes a loaded weapon, it is implied. Look man, I don't like it anymore than you do and think it's par for the course concerning NJ's shittlly written laws, but it is the logical conclusion.

I'm going to try this one last time, or we can just agree to disagree.

 

Your talking about what NJ considers a weapon. A gun is a weapon with or without a magazine in it. The fact a magazine is a component to a gun doesn't change the fact a gun is already considered a weapon. What your arguing is the part of the law that states a gun in pieces is still a weapon because it can be assembled into one.(constructive intent). the law your referring to is why we cant have AR-15 short/threaded barrels, folding stocks or sight posts with lugs... even if they are not attached to a complete rifle IF you have the means to assemble one.

 

"Weapon" means anything readily capable of lethal use or

of inflicting serious bodily injury. The term includes, but

is not limited to, all:

1. Firearms, even though not loaded or lacking a clip

or other component to render them immediately operable;

2. Components which can be readily assembled into a weapon;

 

a magazine is not a component that can be readily assembled into a weapon since the weapon itself already exists with out it... The only way #2 can be argued is if #1 isn't applicable.

 

I would also suggest reading People v. Clark in the Cali district of appeals, which determined a weapon is only loaded if normal operation of the ACTION will chamber a round. If NJ wanted to assert something different it would go all the way up to the supreme court.

 

"Had the Legislature intended to apply a specialized definition of "loaded" for Health and Safety Code section 11370.1 encompassing the situation where the ammunition was stored in or adjacent to a firearm, they easily could have so provided. They, however, did not elect to do so"