Ugh... Anyone have problems with Herter's 12ga?

[Ace08066 2]

Well I feel like I made a huge mistake in buying a case of Herter's 12ga target loads to save $5 over a case of Rio shells.  Went out shooting skeet last night with my remmington 870 and had fun finishing up the 1/2 case of Rio shells I had left over.  Opened the new case of Herter's 12ga #8 1oz shells and first shell jammed.  The ejector wouldn't even grab the lip, I had to dig it out with a knife.  Loaded a few Rio's I had laying around the center console of the truck, worked perfectly.  Oiled the gun up, loaded 4 Herter's rounds - second round jammed same way.  Dug it out, put enough oil in the gun to drown a rabbit, and it ran through 4 shells no problem.  Moved to the next station, loaded 4, first round jammed.  This went on for an entire round of skeet...  Spent more time digging rounds out of the gun with my knife than shooting.  After the round was over I found one more Rio shell in the ammo box.  Chambered that one and put 1 Herter's shell in the tube.  Rio round ejected fine, Herter's jammed.

 

Now I have 200+ shells I probably would rather throw a trash can than put in my gun.  Anyone have a similar experience?  Anyone have a secret to getting these rounds to not jam?

[T Bill 649]

This issue has appeared before at NJGF shoots at the Clinton range.  The base is stamped out of a non brass metal that seems to have problems with certain shotguns.  Now shotgun shells are acting just like 22LR. Some work well some don't.

[pasu0115 200]

I have cases of Herters in 12,16, and 20 gauge. I have used the various gauges in a Brno side by side, a Simpson over under, a Winchester model 12 pump, and two old savage semi autos. Only problem was an occasional failure to feed/eject with the one semiauto, which I think is more the gun than the ammo. Maybe I am lucky, and maybe you happened to get a bad batch.

[Ace08066 2]

I have cases of Herters in 12,16, and 20 gauge. I have used the various gauges in a Brno side by side, a Simpson over under, a Winchester model 12 pump, and two old savage semi autos. Only problem was an occasional failure to feed/eject with the one semiauto, which I think is more the gun than the ammo. Maybe I am lucky, and maybe you happened to get a bad batch.

 

It's funny you say your only issue is with the semiauto.  One of the guys at the skeet place laughed when I said it's only happening with the Herter's ammo and said "Yeah I've heard a lot of people with semi's having that problem with Herter's"

 

Well if ya want some 12ga #8 1oz rounds I'll give ya 8 1/2 boxes of Herter's for $30.   almost half-price!

[W2MC 1,699]

Is the brass higher on the Rio than on the Herters?

 

Newer 870 "Express" shotguns have a problem with tool chatter marks on the shell feed ramp.  High brass allows the shell to step-over the tool marks...low brass can drop the rim right into a cut, jamming the gun.

 

 

See this thread for a more complete discussion:

 

http://njgunforums.com/forum/index.php/topic/75815-870-ejection-issue/?hl=%2B870+%2Bextraction#entry960259

[pasu0115 200]

It's funny you say your only issue is with the semiauto.  One of the guys at the skeet place laughed when I said it's only happening with the Herter's ammo and said "Yeah I've heard a lot of people with semi's having that problem with Herter's"

 

Well if ya want some 12ga #8 1oz rounds I'll give ya 8 1/2 boxes of Herter's for $30.   almost half-price!

Semiauto shotguns can be very finicky with ammuntion brand/shot weight. Thanks for the offer for selling me the ammo, I am good with the supply I have.

 

It's really strange that you are having problems with an 870 and the Herters ammunition. Like I said before, maybe you got a bad batch. One thing that did come to mind is that the spring for the extractor on your gun may be weak, when the bolt is pulled back the extractor slips off the rim of the shell base. Maybe the Herters ammo is slightly smaller on the base than the Rio and that could be part of the problem.

[Ace08066 2]

Semiauto shotguns can be very finicky with ammuntion brand/shot weight. Thanks for the offer for selling me the ammo, I am good with the supply I have.

 

It's really strange that you are having problems with an 870 and the Herters ammunition. Like I said before, maybe you got a bad batch. One thing that did come to mind is that the spring for the extractor on your gun may be weak, when the bolt is pulled back the extractor slips off the rim of the shell base. Maybe the Herters ammo is slightly smaller on the base than the Rio and that could be part of the problem.

 

Yeah I did notice the lip is actually a lot thinner on the Herter's.  The gun is brand new - MAYBE 800 shells through it and I've consistently oiled and cleaned the hell out of it after every outing so I can't imagine anything being "weak".

 

W2MC:

 

The brass is definitely shorter if I'm talking about what you're talking about.  From the lip to the top of the brass is maybe 1/4" on the Herter's while the Rio shells it's at least 1/2" maybe even 3/4".  I also suspected that could be an issue.  Meh, I've been wanting to get myself an over-under I guess I can just save these shells 'till I get one in the summertime.  Royal pain having to pick shells out of the gun with a knife ever 2-3 shots.  Is there any fix for this you know of? 

[Krdshrk 3,877]

Had the same issue with Winchester bulk from Walmart.  

[Ace08066 2]

Answered my own question.  Actually, YOU did!  Just saw the video you posted.  Thanks 10000x man!!  Time to plug in the dremel...  

[W2MC 1,699]

Yeah I did notice the lip is actually a lot thinner on the Herter's.  The gun is brand new - MAYBE 800 shells through it and I've consistently oiled and cleaned the hell out of it after every outing so I can't imagine anything being "weak".

 

W2MC:

 

The brass is definitely shorter if I'm talking about what you're talking about.  From the lip to the top of the brass is maybe 1/4" on the Herter's while the Rio shells it's at least 1/2" maybe even 3/4".  I also suspected that could be an issue.  Meh, I've been wanting to get myself an over-under I guess I can just save these shells 'till I get one in the summertime.  Royal pain having to pick shells out of the gun with a knife ever 2-3 shots.  Is there any fix for this you know of? 

 

Yes - What it feels like when you're shooting is the pump comes back a little way; then stops.  Some will tell you to polish the chamber....I did that, but the chamber is not the problem.  You can test this and see exactly what is causing the problem.

 

With the barrel only (and off the gun) insert a herter shell into the chamber.  Take your fingernail and use it like an extractor to slowly pull the shell from the chamber, with a little down pressure toward the feed ramp.  Essentially you're mimicing the extractor action.  When the brass clears the mouth of the chamber, the rim of the shell will now drop onto the feed ramp (because its no longer supported by the brass, but by the plastic hull).  If this is the problem, the rim will drop into the roughness of this unpolished area and get hung-up on the rough cuts.    

 

There is an easy fix....polish the feed ramp until the tool marks/grooves/roughness are smooth and cannot grab and hold the rim of the shotshell.  I secured the barrel on the workbench, and took an old & tired bore brush that I wrapped steel wool around, and using a drill motor and a short piece of bore rod, worked the steel wool-wrapped brush back and forth until the whole ramp area was polished smooth.  Test to see if the tool marks still grab and hold the rim.  Keep polishing until they don't.  On mine; several of the deeper cuts are still there, but they are now smooth and cannot grab & hold the rim of a shell.

 

EDIT - as I think about it, I think I used a dremel and a felt wheel with polishing compound on it, too.  You get the idea...polish, not grind!

[kirk2022 43]

Lots of good answers above.  The most mentioned one, The size of the base is most likly your issue.

I used to shoot Herters (O/U) I would have some that would slip under the ejector.  We measured some one night at the range, Sure enough they were slightly smaller then others.

 

I have started bying mostly Estates and no issues.

W2MC has A good post that may need to be done. That said I would just change ammo and see how that does before getting the dremmel out.

 

Also the issue can show it self more on skeet or 5 stand, If you are short racking the pump action just A little bit.

You can check that by running A round of Trap. You may not see the issue with single shots, where you have no rush to get the next shot off.

 

Maybe we will run across each other some day at Quinton.

Heading there this morn for some Trap.

[ogfarmer 138]

runs flawlessly thru my Siaga 12 and my o/u in the past havent shot either gun in few months. Have a few cases I bought few months ago.

[Purple Patrick 638]

I've had extraction issues with herters in an 870 and 930 before

 

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[Jerseybones 0]

As others have stated the tooling marks outside the chamber opposite the extractor should be polished most newer ones are pretty rough it will help with extraction of any brand you are using, worked for me!

[Mr.Stu 1,921]

This is really interesting. I've had to mortar my 870 at 3 gun matches a few times now - often enough that it's an automatic malfunction response now. I've had it with Herters and Federal. I'll take a close look at my barrel.

 

Thank you.

[Scorpio64 5,154]

I've run some Herters 00 through my 870.  It all went bang but feeding and extraction was a little rough which is a little unusual because I've never had a problem with high brass shot shells.. I had to rack the rounds with authority to get it to cycle.   Burns kinda dirty too.