selecting the best armor plates

[n4p226r 105]

forget about plate carriers for a minute.   what are the best plates you can get?   since we are in NJ, lets assume something bad enough happens to where you are going to be walking around with your AR loaded and slung and not worrying about the law anymore.   Better yet, assume you are in the walking dead.  if thats a little too far out there, what about assuming you just want protection for idiots at the gun range.  

 

so its pretty hard to determine whats best.  Level IV,  III+?   stand alone?  soft backers?  steel, ceramic.  etc.  what are the pro's and con's of each.  Assume money is not part of the equation.

[MidwestPX 172]

IVs are typically heaviest/thickest/most expensive but provide the best protection without the need for soft armor however soft armor helps absorb fragments when a bullet hits.  As far as material goes, steel is the most durable but also the heaviest and spall is a legit concern.  Polymer plates are usually cheapest, lightest, but thickest.  Ceramic is what I choose to use however they're drop sensitive, particularly the edges.  The plates I have are supposedly able to be dropped from 20' on the strike face on concrete and still stop AP 30-06 reliably.

[fatty 241]

ceramic plates can get super expensive...

 

I have a set of AR500 Level III+ (w/ build-up spall coating; multi-curve) for sale in the marketplace if you want to check it out.

 

AR500Armor also sells kevlar lined spall protection guards for steel plates.  Lots of testing videos available on youtube if you're concerned about fragments

[n4p226r 105]

IVs are typically heaviest/thickest/most expensive but provide the best protection without the need for soft armor however soft armor helps absorb fragments when a bullet hits.  As far as material goes, steel is the most durable but also the heaviest and spall is a legit concern.  Polymer plates are usually cheapest, lightest, but thickest.  Ceramic is what I choose to use however they're drop sensitive, particularly the edges.  The plates I have are supposedly able to be dropped from 20' on the strike face on concrete and still stop AP 30-06 reliably.

 

 

 

are any of the plates better suited to taking multiple rounds?   I'm assuming steel would be.   

 

what are the ceramic plates rated for?   It seems some places i read recommend using soft armor backers even with standalone plates

[n4p226r 105]

ceramic plates can get super expensive...

 

 

what are we talking about price wise?  $200-300 a plate or double/triple that?

[Krdshrk 3,877]

what are we talking about price wise?  $200-300 a plate or double/triple that?

 

BulletProofMe SAPI lvl IV plate is $250 while an AR500Armor Level IV is $155.

 

ESAPI Lvl IV Ceramic plate is $940

Edited March 1, 2016 by Krdshrk
Roman Numerals duh

[fatty 241]

Highcom Level IV multi-hit test

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8CYsV1Xer9Y

[DirtyDigz 1,812]

If you're expecting to walk any distance in your gear then weight needs to factor heavily (hah!) in your decision.  A +/- 10 lb difference may not sound like much on paper but once you try hiking for 5+ miles wearing AR500 steel plates you may think differently.

[Krdshrk 3,877]

AR500 steel plates from AR500 Armor are 7.5 lbs for a 10x12" plate.  Level IV Ceramic plates are 7.2 lbs.  Not a lot of weight savings but it adds up.

 

Also - Steel isn't a save-all.  Level III Plate is rated for up to 7.62x51 @ 2780FPS... but drive a standard ball xm193 5.56 round through a 20+" barrel, you're at 3000+ FPS and it will penetrate.  Velocity will get through steel whereas ceramic might have a chance to stop it.

 

 

Ceramic Lvl III vs 7.62x51 and 7.62x54R Steel

 

[MidwestPX 172]

are any of the plates better suited to taking multiple rounds?   I'm assuming steel would be.   

 

what are the ceramic plates rated for?   It seems some places i read recommend using soft armor backers even with standalone plates

Sure, they can be multi-hit rated.  I have a set of lvl 4 standalone ceramic plates that are multi-hit rated.

 

what are we talking about price wise?  $200-300 a plate or double/triple that?

How much ya got?  Boron carbide or silica carbide like what goes into the super thin level 4 standalones Ceradyne makes can be north of a grand each. 

[MidwestPX 172]

If you're considering armor for a SHTF scenario, I'd think twice because IMO without the proper conditioning, it's going to do more harm than good.  I've considered it and the plates I have would be given to operators of emplaced guns such as in a machine gun nest.  I'm convinced that the average person with a PC and plates in the closet/basement will die sooner in a SHTF situation when they start wearing them for the first time and trying to move around (foraging for food/supplies, combat, etc.).  Also, consideration for a plate carrier should be significant and IMO, warrants more attention than plate selection.  Comfort and speed to get in and out of the PC are huge factors. 

[checko 180]

I have level 4 shooters cut ceramic plates from highcom. I recommend them for the weight savings alone. Steel plates must be a bitch to wear.

 

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

[fatty 241]

If you're considering armor for a SHTF scenario, I'd think twice because IMO without the proper conditioning, it's going to do more harm than good.  I've considered it and the plates I have would be given to operators of emplaced guns such as in a machine gun nest.  I'm convinced that the average person with a PC and plates in the closet/basement will die sooner in a SHTF situation when they start wearing them for the first time and trying to move around (foraging for food/supplies, combat, etc.).  Also, consideration for a plate carrier should be significant and IMO, warrants more attention than plate selection.  Comfort and speed to get in and out of the PC are huge factors. 

 

 

Ty whats your opinion on Banshee plate carriers?

[checko 180]

That's what I use. I really like it

 

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[fatty 241]

AR500 Level III+ stops M193.  

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FfA3Qv9JjBA

 

AR500 steel plates from AR500 Armor are 7.5 lbs for a 10x12" plate.  Level IV Ceramic plates are 7.2 lbs.  Not a lot of weight savings but it adds up.

 

Also - Steel isn't a save-all.  Level III Plate is rated for up to 7.62x51 @ 2780FPS... but drive a standard ball xm193 5.56 round through a 20+" barrel, you're at 3000+ FPS and it will penetrate.  Velocity will get through steel whereas ceramic might have a chance to stop it.

 

 

[fatty 241]

Yeah - I've got a banshee PC as well.  I find it to be really comfortable.

[High Exposure 5,664]

The first thing you need to understand is the "science" behind body armor is really black magic and armor companies are worse than used car salesmen. They lie, manipulate data, and will sell you gear you don't need at exorbitant prices.

 

You need to make every attempt to verify any manufacturer's claims via independant testing.

 

NIJ ratings are a good starting point, but aren't a necessity of you know exactly what kind of protection you want and are savvy enough to know what materials stop what rounds. Some very reputable companies eschew expensive NIJ testing protocols in order to keep their prices lower.

 

You need to determine what the most common threats in your area you will face. Are you worried about Bubba with grandpas hunting rifle, Rufus and his 7.62x39, Ivan's 5.45x39 or Rambos 5.56. Are you more likely to see Military M855 in a 16" barrel AR or some 44gr varmint rounds in a 20" barrel.

 

Different material plates stop different rounds -

HDPE

Ceramic

AR500

Boron or Silica carbide

Or a hybrid

 

Each material also has different maintenance requirements as well. For example: ceramic plates need to be X-rayed from time to time to make sure they have no cracks or faults that would compromise their ability to protect you.

 

Do you want standalone (SA) or In Conjunction (ICW) plates? I prefer ICW plates. The soft armor behind the plate just makes me feel better.

 

I would avoid AR500 armor at all costs. Yes, they are usually cheaper but you will be much better served by spending a bit more and getting something designed to protect you vs something designed to be a target. They are extremely heavy, they don't fare will against light and fast rounds, they wear out your carrier quickly, and spall is a very real concern whether you have an anti spall wrap/coating or not.

 

Make sure you look at this .pdf so you can figure out what size and cut of plate you want and what carrier will serve you best:

http://sixty-six.org/x_drive/proper_wear_of_armor.pdf

 

 

Velocity Systems is where I would start my search:

http://www.velsyst.com/store/236/0/ARMOR---Hard-Armor.html

 

They are the most honest and well regarded armor company I know of and will sell to non LEO non .Gov personnel.

 

Next would be AMI:

http://armoredmobility.com

 

Third choice would be Point Blank/Paraclete, but they can be tough to get to sell to non .gov/LEO buyers.

[n4p226r 105]

If you're considering armor for a SHTF scenario, I'd think twice because IMO without the proper conditioning, it's going to do more harm than good. I've considered it and the plates I have would be given to operators of emplaced guns such as in a machine gun nest. I'm convinced that the average person with a PC and plates in the closet/basement will die sooner in a SHTF situation when they start wearing them for the first time and trying to move around (foraging for food/supplies, combat, etc.). Also, consideration for a plate carrier should be significant and IMO, warrants more attention than plate selection. Comfort and speed to get in and out of the PC are huge factors.

Well obviously id train. I plan to wear it every time I play call of duty

[High Exposure 5,664]

Also, this is an excellent write up by arguably the most knowledgable "armor guy" out there Dr Gary Roberts (screen name DocGKR):

http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?32839-Level-III-Patrol-Armor-Test

He conducts independant ballistics test on hard and soft armor and he is constantly updating this info, so read it all the way through.

[Krdshrk 3,877]

Also, this is an excellent write up by arguably the most knowledgable "armor guy" out there Dr Gary Roberts (screen name DocGKR):

http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?32839-Level-III-Patrol-Armor-Test

He conducts independant ballistics test on hard and soft armor and he is constantly updating this info, so read it all the way through.

 

Looks like his last post on the thread with technical info was back in 2010 unfortunately..

[fatty 241]

great info HE... but I wonder if Dr Gary Roberts has tested the newer ar500 plates.  It's pretty well known (as well as listed on their website) that their standard level III isn't good to stop M193, but their III+ does.  Level III+ isn't an NIJ standard, but still worth testing if he can.

 

I know it's not standard testing protocol, but here's a video of the III+ plate stopping M193 out of a 22" bolt action rifle @ 7 yards.  More velocity than any AR setup

 

LINK

[High Exposure 5,664]

Looks like his last post on the thread with technical info was back in 2010 unfortunately..

For testing of current plates yeah, it's a bit dated.

 

However, it is an excellent primer to get an idea of material properties and what stops what, as well as what to look for, or not, in a plate.

 

It also gives a decent laymen's explaination of NIJ ratings aand test protocols.

[MidwestPX 172]

Ty whats your opinion on Banshee plate carriers?

I like them for a basic quality PC.  Especially at that price point.  I've got one as a backup.

[High Exposure 5,664]

great info HE... but I wonder if Dr Gary Roberts has tested the newer ar500 plates. It's pretty well known (as well as listed on their website) that their standard level III isn't good to stop M193, but their III+ does. Level III+ isn't an NIJ standard, but still worth testing if he can.

 

I know it's not standard testing protocol, but here's a video of the III+ plate stopping M193 out of a 22" bolt action rifle @ 7 yards. More velocity than any AR setup

 

LINK

Here is a 2013 independent test he did on 1/4" steel armor. He doesn't say what brand, and its a couple years old, but I do find it interesting.

http://www.m4carbine.net/archive/index.php/t-133162.html

We had a chance to shoot some "special" 1/4" steel armor plate today that the vendor assured us would stop .30-06 M2AP.

 

Testing was conducted at 25 yds:

 

.30-06 166 gr M2AP at 2700 fps--full plate penetration

7.62x51mm 147 gr M80 FMJ at 2850 fps--full plate penetration

7.62x51mm 147 gr M80 FMJ at 2650 fps--successfully stopped

5.56 mm 55 gr M193 FMJ at 3200 fps--full plate penetration

5.56 mm 62 gr M855 FMJ at 3000 fps--successfully stopped

5.56 mm LeMas 45 gr Landwarfare JSP at 3800 fps--full plate penetration

 

This is typical performance from every 5-6 mm steel plate we have ever tested.

 

So much for vendor performance claims; without independent testing such data is not worth much...

Looking at the above data, I find it interesting that only 200fps made the difference between penetration and stopping. That is a variable that could be easily adjusted with a couple inches of barrel or a few yards closer to a target.

 

The biggest problem to overcome vs M193 is its significantly higher velocity and its simple construction. This gives it more "punch" - unlike M855 where its three part construction causes the bullet to break apart on steel and glass.

 

My understanding is that when shooting steel with M193 there is occasionally an armor failure where its solid construction and higher velocity can cause a "plug" of the actual steel armor to be punched through the material along with parts of the projectile.

 

Now, keep in mind - if you don't think M193, 7.62x51 or M2AP is a significant threat in your AO, the steel should be fine.

[High Exposure 5,664]

I also like the banshee. For the price its hard to beat the quality.

[Krdshrk 3,877]

My understanding is that when shooting steel with M193 there is occasionally an armor failure where its solid construction and higher velocity can cause a "plug" of the actual steel armor to be punched through the material along with parts of the projectile.

 

That's what it looked like in some of the testing videos I saw on Youtube.  Higher velocity with M193 just punched straight through.  The steel around the hole didn't bend or distort much at all.

[BlueLineFish 615]

The highcom level iv were on sale not too long ago. Between the front and rear plates, side plates and the carrier I spent about 500. Its not a shtf item for me. I carry it in my patrol car as an active shooter item. I wore it for the first time on an counter terrorism heavy weapons image and it was rough, especially with all my regular gear at around 40 pounds. I will def need to do some conditioning with a weighted vest to simulate wearing it. Being winded duriny a response will do me no good

[fatty 241]

I wonder what brand that "special" 1/4 inch plate was

 

speed definitely makes a world of difference with armor.  check out this video of a 22-250 round punching straight thru

 

22-250 cartridge @ 4,000+ fps!  (ceramic plates stopped it)

[High Exposure 5,664]

I wonder what brand that "special" 1/4 inch plate was

 

speed definitely makes a world of difference with armor. check out this video of a 22-250 round punching straight thru

 

22-250 cartridge @ 4,000+ fps! (ceramic plates stopped it)

Me too - but I am not sure if it matters. He does go on to exain that it is representative of all the steel armor he has shot as the failures are the same - that is enough for me to say "no thanks" to AR500/steel armor.

 

We issue 10x12 level III+ ICW triple curve ceramic plates wrapped in PE - kind of a best of both worlds. Our primary threat is the ammo in our guns, we know that ammo will be on every call so we made sure our armor will stop that round first (Federal TRU 64gr soft nose). After that its 7.62x39ap and M855. We tested them and we're pleased with their performance.

[n4p226r 105]

The first thing you need to understand is the "science" behind body armor is really black magic and armor companies are worse than used car salesmen. They lie, manipulate data, and will sell you gear you don't need at exorbitant prices.

 

You need to make every attempt to verify any manufacturer's claims via independant testing.

 

NIJ ratings are a good starting point, but aren't a necessity of you know exactly what kind of protection you want and are savvy enough to know what materials stop what rounds. Some very reputable companies eschew expensive NIJ testing protocols in order to keep their prices lower.

 

You need to determine what the most common threats in your area you will face. Are you worried about Bubba with grandpas hunting rifle, Rufus and his 7.62x39, Ivan's 5.45x39 or Rambos 5.56. Are you more likely to see Military M855 in a 16" barrel AR or some 44gr varmint rounds in a 20" barrel.

 

Different material plates stop different rounds -

HDPE

Ceramic

AR500

Boron or Silica carbide

Or a hybrid

 

Each material also has different maintenance requirements as well. For example: ceramic plates need to be X-rayed from time to time to make sure they have no cracks or faults that would compromise their ability to protect you.

 

Do you want standalone (SA) or In Conjunction (ICW) plates? I prefer ICW plates. The soft armor behind the plate just makes me feel better.

 

I would avoid AR500 armor at all costs. Yes, they are usually cheaper but you will be much better served by spending a bit more and getting something designed to protect you vs something designed to be a target. They are extremely heavy, they don't fare will against light and fast rounds, they wear out your carrier quickly, and spall is a very real concern whether you have an anti spall wrap/coating or not.

 

Make sure you look at this .pdf so you can figure out what size and cut of plate you want and what carrier will serve you best:

http://sixty-six.org/x_drive/proper_wear_of_armor.pdf

 

 

Velocity Systems is where I would start my search:

http://www.velsyst.com/store/236/0/ARMOR---Hard-Armor.html

 

They are the most honest and well regarded armor company I know of and will sell to non LEO non .Gov personnel.

 

Next would be AMI:

http://armoredmobility.com

 

Third choice would be Point Blank/Paraclete, but they can be tough to get to sell to non .gov/LEO buyers.

 

Looking at the velocity systems page it says it's LEO/Gov only