Buy once, cry once?

DirtyHalfBreedModerate · March 17, 2016

I admit, I am not a dedicated follower to this rule.

But this is the world of firearms.

That doesn't mean I will purchase a Hi Point, though I would still like advice on how often this should be applied.

Purple Patrick · March 17, 2016

If you find something you like go for it. For my first handgun when I turned 21 was a 686+, I knew I wanted that gun and had no problem paying for it. Now it's no custom shop gun but it isn't a bare bones ruger or "cheaper" gun. If I had the budget I'd go bigger but at the time at 21 I bought the more expensive gun instead of something that would have been cheaper and functioned the same

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk

T Bill · March 17, 2016

Please, spend your money wisely. Hi-Point is the Horrible Freight of the gun industry, There are better used on the market than Hi-Point new. Shop wisely.

S14Swap240sx · March 17, 2016

Resell value in this industry is incredible. If your buying something worth buying, chances are someone will always pay for it down the road.

What are you considering In purchasing?

MidwestPX · March 17, 2016

Please, spend your money wisely. Hi-Point is the Horrible Freight of the gun industry, There are better used on the market than Hi-Point new. Shop wisely.

I'm not dogging on you but when I see posts about Hi Points, I remember this post a cop-trainer friend of mine put up over a year ago:

Interesting experience at the shooting range this afternoon....

The range is packed. Everyone got new guns for X-mas and wants to shoot them. There was about an hour wait for a stall. I sit down and start reading as I wait my turn. In a few minutes, a young girl sits down to wait in the chair next to mine. She's by herself and appears to be in her early 20s. She's the only black person in the room and one of the only women. She seems nervous as she fiddles with the gun case in her lap. She's obviously uncomfortable.

Uncomfortable people with guns in their hands shooting in the stall next to me isn't what I like to see. I decide to talk to her. Keep in mind that no one at this range knows me or knows what I do for a living. That's why I like shooting there; I have complete anonymity and can focus on my own training rather than teaching others. I rarely talk to anyone, but something told me that I needed to talk to this girl.

"It's a long wait, huh?" "What kind of gun did you bring to shoot?"

She smiles and seems visibly relieved that someone was being nice to her. She says "It's just a 9mm. Nothing special, but it's the only thing I could afford."

We keep talking. I find out she's a single mom with two kids. Her house has been broken into three times in the last two months. The last burglary attempt occurred while she was in the house with her kids. She has never shot a gun, but she recognized that she had a duty to protect her family. She went to a gun show and bought a Jimenez Arms JA-9. She asked all her male friends and family members to go to the range with her, but all of them turned her down.

She tells me that she has a bad feeling that the robbers are coming back tonight to get the x-mas presents she bought for her kids. She doesn't know anything about guns and doesn't know anyone who can teach her. She's signed up for a CCW class, but no one teaches classes on the week of Christmas and she can't find an opening until January. The problem is that she thinks the robbers are coming TONIGHT, A January class isn't going to help.

She told me that even though she didn't know what she was going to do, she knew she better figure out how to shoot the gun before she has to shoot the robbers tonight. That's why she was there by herself at the shooting range. It didn't matter that she was by herself, that she was the only woman in the room, or that she knew nothing about guns. She had babies to protect and was going to figure out how to do it, come hell or high water.

It got me thinking about the courage and commitment that this woman was displaying. How many people would intentionally place themselves into a situation where they know they will be the outsider and probably look stupid and inept to all the other "experts" at the range? Not many. The woman had guts.

"I think I can help you. Let's share a stall. I'll show you how to shoot your gun."

Helping her seemed like the right thing to do. No problem there. The problem was that the range was closing in an hour and she could only afford one box of bullets. How's that for a dilemma for you instructors out there? You have less than an hour and one box of bullets to take a woman who has never held a gun before and prepare her for a gunfight that she thinks will happen TONIGHT. Game on. Challenge accepted.

Gun function, loading, stance and grip and sight alignment in 15 minutes. On to live fire. Slow fire two handed at first until she got used to the gun, then some faster shots, a few shots right hand only/left hand only so that she had the confidence she could do it if she had to. Finished up with a few reps of malfunction drills. I'm pleased to say that she kept all of her shots in the chest area of a silhouette target at 10-15 feet. The gun puked a couple times, but it gave her a chance to practice her tap/rack. She sucked up the information I provided like a sponge. She was a better student than any of the thousands of cops I've taught.

The range closed. I wished her luck She packed up her new gun and left. I told her that I was a cop, but not that I teach people to shoot for a living. For all she knows, I'm just some friendly dude at the range. I like it that way.

The whole experience gives me pause. How many times have you been at the range and looked down your nose at somebody shooting a HiPoint or Jennings? How many times have you silently thought "idiot" when someone fumbles with their gun? How many times have you looked askance at shooters using the "wrong" grip? I know I do all of those things almost every time I'm at a public shooting range...but I won't do it anymore. What if those "idiots" are really just people like this woman...inexperienced, poor, and without anyone to teach them how to do things right? By the luck of the draw, this woman pulled up a chair next to a professional firearms instructor at the range. She could have just as easily sat next to "Bubba" who will tell her that her gun is a piece of shit and that there's no way she could ever learn to defend herself in an hour.

We shooters need to do better. It doesn't matter if someone has a shitty blaster or if they don't know how to hold it correctly. They might be in a situation like this woman was in. We need to help these people the best that we can. Who knows what an impact we will have? Save a life or sneer at an "idiot." It's your choice.

Sure, we advise people to spend wisely however sometimes, a Hi Point is all they can afford.

mikeyjones · March 17, 2016

While I'm not a huge fan of Hi-Point handguns, I'll stand behind their carbines. For the price, they're unbeatable.

DirtyHalfBreedModerate · March 17, 2016

I'm not dogging on you but when I see posts about Hi Points, I remember this post a cop-trainer friend of mine put up over a year ago:

Sure, we advise people to spend wisely however sometimes, a Hi Point is all they can afford.

I was considering putting up a poll.

"Beggars aren't choosers" was among the choices I was thinking about.

DirtyHalfBreedModerate · March 17, 2016

While I'm not a huge fan of Hi-Point handguns, I'll stand behind their carbines. For the price, they're unbeatable.

How accurate and light are they?

mikeyjones · March 17, 2016

How accurate and light are they?

Compared to what? A precision Rem 700 they are not. But with the right shooter and right ammo, you can tear a ragged golf ball sized hole in paper at 50 ft.

http://www.hi-pointfirearms.com/Hi-Point-carbines/9MM_carbine.html#

DirtyHalfBreedModerate · March 17, 2016

Resell value in this industry is incredible. If your buying something worth buying, chances are someone will always pay for it down the road.

What are you considering In purchasing?

I am considering an AR-15 type, I want one that happens to be on sale (looks like its built for abuse and with a match barrel, this was originally my build goal), or simply an entry level type for half the price.

One 9mm pistol with the possibility of a compatible PCC later.

I am considering M9/Px4/Cx4 Storm, or G19 and carbine (will Glock ever get in the carbine game?).

I do like safety.

I intend to purchase one firearm per year.

S14Swap240sx · March 17, 2016

https://www.slickguns.com/product/smith-wesson-mp15-sport-ii-ar15-state-compliant-556-nato-223-rem-16-adj-sights-fixed-stock-1?view=list

Ask our vendors for price, they can sometimes be a few more dollars then online, but it's worth it for the local knowledge

M&p 15 sport 2 And a m&p9 with an apex trigger. You will be shooting 5.56 amd 9mm at an outstanding entry point price wise.

Then you can buy their .22 counter parts to practice on a budget with similar style firearms. The mp22 and mp15-22 can be had for a steal and worth keeping an eye out for.

If you decide competition is for you they have long slide versions available of the mp9 and target .22 pistols as well.

The glock19 is a nice gun too, but no carbine counter part even tho 9mm glock lower carbines are getting popular, I would recommend that as a future project tho. If your in a toss up between a smith and a glock, your fine either way!

Smith and Wesson has a great warranty. They send you a shipping label and it was pretty much no question asked when my pistol needed a barrel.

DirtyHalfBreedModerate · March 17, 2016

https://www.slickguns.com/product/smith-wesson-mp15-sport-ii-ar15-state-compliant-556-nato-223-rem-16-adj-sights-fixed-stock-1?view=list

Ask our vendors for price, they can sometimes be a few more dollars then online, but it's worth it for the local knowledge

M&p 15 sport 2 And a m&p9 with an apex trigger. You will be shooting 5.56 amd 9mm at an outstanding entry point price wise.

Then you can buy their .22 counter parts to practice on a budget with similar style firearms. The mp22 and mp15-22 can be had for a steal and worth keeping an eye out for.

If you decide competition is for you they have long slide versions available of the mp9 and target .22 pistols as well.

The glock19 is a nice gun too, but no carbine counter part even tho 9mm glock lower carbines are getting popular, I would recommend that as a future project tho. If your in a toss up between a smith and a glock, your fine either way!

Smith and Wesson has a great warranty. They send you a shipping label and it was pretty much no question asked when my pistol needed a barrel.

.22?

Is the shortage over?

S14Swap240sx · March 17, 2016

.22?

Is the shortage over?

eh. Use an ammo search engine to track deals. I think reasonable now is .07-.08 a round, anyone denying that is living in the past.

My point to the mp22 and mp9 relationship was simply the common handling and feel between the two. .22 will always be cheaper then 9mm and .22 is just as fun and a great tool to learning basic fundamental skills on a budget

DirtyHalfBreedModerate · March 17, 2016

eh. Use an ammo search engine to track deals. I think reasonable now is .07-.08 a round, anyone denying that is living in the past.

My point to the mp22 and mp9 relationship was simply the common handling and feel between the two. .22 will always be cheaper then 9mm and .22 is just as fun and a great tool to learning basic fundamental skills on a budget

Where can one find mp22 15 round magazines?

I am seriously considering this.

DirtyHalfBreedModerate · March 17, 2016

I think I know what I'm going to do

dajonga · March 17, 2016

This is the only 15 rounder I know of.

http://rrages.com/magazine/mp25/index15.htm

I have not purchased any yet, but that may change in the next few minutes.

EDIT.... I just ordered 3 and will update post with a range report iffen you want.

EDIT #2... Duh. You asked for M&P 22, not M&P 15-22. My bad.

djg0770 · March 17, 2016

There are always deals to be had. I've bought working firearms where the NICS check cost me as much as the firearm.

My first mossberg 500 was a gunbroker auction win for $85. I've only been into firearms since 2008 so it's not like that was a purchase back in the 80s.

Pew Pew Plates · March 17, 2016

I almost always argue buy once cry once.

My favorite is for example people that want a S&W 686 but buy the GP100 to save the $100 or whatever the difference is now-adays. You're going to spend way more than that in ammo over the lifetime of the gun, may as well shoot that small fortune of ammunition out of what you REALLY wanted. You won't miss that $100 5 years from now, but 5 years from now you may say "damn I wish this was a 686"

Not starting a gp100 vs 686 flame war, it's just a convenient example.

AverageJoe · March 17, 2016

"Buy once, cry once" is a dumb saying...everyone should be driving a Ferrari then. Set a budget and buy what you like within that budget.

djg0770 · March 17, 2016

"Buy once, cry once" is a dumb saying...everyone should be driving a Ferrari then. Set a budget and buy what you like within that budget.

Or buy "the most you can" within your budget. For example if I see a new Taurus vs a slightly used Ruger GP100 for the same price, I'm going for the Ruger.

Pizza Bob · March 17, 2016

In any endeavor there is always the law of diminishing returns. Let's take stereo equipment. There are incremental steps in quality of the equipment. As you climb those steps you reach a point where for a little more money you get a discernible difference in quality. Eventually you reach a point where considerably more money buys you less of a discernible difference. It may be worth it to an audiophile to spend that money because they are capable of discerning that fine difference. To someone like me, with a tin ear, it isn't worth it.

When I am making a major investment in equipment - whatever it may be - I look at the highest quality item available within my budget and then sacrifice, if need be, to buy the next higher level. Buy once cry once doesn't mean buy the best there is, it means buy the best you can afford - or maybe one step more.

Adios,

Pizza Bob

AverageJoe · March 17, 2016

Or buy "the most you can" within your budget. For example if I see a new Taurus vs a slightly used Ruger GP100 for the same price, I'm going for the Ruger.

Right, this falls under the "what you like within that budget" lol

Eric. · March 17, 2016

For me, I think of "Buy once, Cry once" as buying more than what is just barely adequate. Don't buy something that is just enough to get the job done because there is a high likelihood that you will trade up, in the future. Go up a notch (or three) in quality. This way, when the new hotness comes out, you should still be competitive with what you have.

S14Swap240sx · March 17, 2016

Dirty, the m&p22 offers a max of 12 round mag. Get the 10 rounder as it just has a lil steel spacer that reduces the capacity that is easily removable. So you technically get both options.

T Bill · March 17, 2016

Or buy "the most you can" within your budget. For example if I see a new Taurus vs a slightly used Ruger GP100 for the same price, I'm going for the Ruger.

That is what I am talking about, plenty of bargains out there, Takes time and a little effort to find, Well worth the wait

BullzeyeNJ · March 18, 2016

For me it should mean...I'd rather put my entire gun budget in one gun and be satisfied for a long time with my purchase rather then buy three lesser quality guns and feel like Im missing out on what I really wanted in the first place.

My problem is I always seem to buy the seemingly better, more expensive stuff but I am still always looking for new toys. My addiction has subsided in 2016...so far.

WhiskeyTangoFoxtrot · March 18, 2016

To each his own...

I've seen a guy with an Remington 870 Wingmaster outshoot guys with $6K+ Perazzi's and Krieghoff's at the trap range. I appreciate $2K custom 1911's, but I don't think they will make me a more accurate shooter.

Buy what you can afford and don't stress. Ignore the haters and the snobby H&K guys :drag:

mipafox · March 18, 2016

It's a gun. If it has a reputation for reliability, easy to maintain, and accurate enough for the intended purpose then buy it. It won't be your last. And you can sell guns.

Better to buy than to agonize over it and not buy.

DirtyHalfBreedModerate · March 20, 2016

This is the only 15 rounder I know of.

http://rrages.com/magazine/mp25/index15.htm

I have not purchased any yet, but that may change in the next few minutes.

EDIT.... I just ordered 3 and will update post with a range report iffen you want.

EDIT #2... Duh. You asked for M&P 22, not M&P 15-22. My bad.

That's fine, it seems to be exactly what I'm looking for.

Another question though: separate training M&P 15-22 or just a conversion kit for proficiency with one rifle?

Also: http://www.brownells.com/magazines/rifle-magazines/magazines/ar-15-m16-22lr-magazine-prod44891.aspx

Scorpio64 · March 20, 2016

Buying crap because you don't have enough to buy a good something is a bad reason to buy crap. Itls also a trap, a crap trap. You buy crap, you will have to buy new crap to replace the old crap. You can spend three years using and replacing crap or you can just be patient and save for a quality item. Same money, more up time. Decide what the lowest level of quality you can live with is, then save until you have enough to buy something that's not crap.

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