Extreme FID wait time need advice and assistance

[Newtonian 453]

I'm trying to recall any LEO that I know that wasn't pro 2A.   ...can't...

 

college room mate.. NJSP.. pro 2a

HS friend.. S.River PD  ...pro 2a

father in law.  former CLEO  ... pro 2a

former employer and son + their fam. friend. 3 in all  NYPD... Old Bridge... Hopatcong.. all pro 2 a

father of high school friend.... Lt.  pro 2a

current friend ..NYPD detective of 11 yrs... pro 2a

son of a friend ..NYPD highway... pro 2a

friend of my brother ... FBI... pro 2a

other people I know reasonably to fairly well who are in law enforcement... quick count... 6... all pro 2a

 

I'm sure there are LEO's that are anti when it comes to the public's possession of firearms.  There has to be given how some slow walk permits and we've seen a number of them in the news talking about the need for more gun laws every so often.

 

If I only based my assessment on LEO's I've seen at a range, I might agree that it could be biased.  Anti's might not spend much time at public ranges, or in shooting competitions.  But these are just people I know, either directly or through someone.  The fact that none are anti 2A tells me that there are a lot of pro 2A LEOs.  Maybe a majority... maybe not.  Someone who's actually in law enforcement might have a better feel for that.  But I don't see a predominantly anti LEO population in my personal experience.

 

That said.. I'm still being very careful about what I do if I get pulled over to or from the range.  Being pro 2A probably doesn't mean they won't do what they understand is their job. Give or take some discretion.

You know an awful lot of cops, and you've spoken with each and every one of them about guns!

 

 

From what you read here about delays would you say the NJ police culture is pro or anti?

 

Maybe cops outside of this state, who realize CC doesn't cause the sky to fall, have been indoctrinated differently. Very possible.

[Kevin125 4,772]

You know an awful lot of cops, and you've spoken with each and every one of them about guns!

 

 

From what you read here about delays would you say the NJ police culture is pro or anti?

 

Maybe cops outside of this state, who realize CC doesn't cause the sky to fall, have been indoctrinated differently. Very possible.

 

As I was going through the list of people in my mind.. I was saying the same thing.  No idea why I happen to know what I guess is a lot of LEOs.  My father in law is easy to explain.  He moved to PA by the way.   The rest are just people I happen to know.

 

And Yes, I've spoken with these people about firearm ownership or come to know how they felt about it.... over the years.  Some more than others.  The conversations twenty years ago were a little different than the conversations we have today.    One conversation I can remember from way back was about how NJ FIDs are dumb.  Some I've hunted with back in the day.  Some I've shot with recently.   I'm not in contact with all of them these days.  Quite a few are retired.  Most of these people are 50+.   Maybe the new blood in LEO is different.

 

Based on what we see here, there are definitely some number of anti 2A LEO's in certain places.  Jersey City I would guess.  Boonton... and others. 

 

On the culture.... I think that sort of means... what comes down from the top in the LEO world.....  I think these days that culture being pushed down tends to lean anti.  And I think where that happens, it's starting with the local Pols.  In some cases, it seems like it's way more than just leaning.  Maybe that culture from the bosses is influencing new LEOs.  I really can't be sure either way but a lot of young people in general, having been indoctrinated in NJ public schools, at least in suburbia and urban areas, are more liberal than... the kids of the past ... (that would be us..).

 

You didn't bring this up, but I figured I'd mentioned it.... 

 

I think that in a traffic stop...vs... walking into a PD to submit apps or pick up permits or whatever... the two types of contact with LE are vastly different.  It's at least a little confrontational in a traffic stop.  That LEO has no idea if you just committed a felony and will do what it takes not to get caught..... or you're just on your way home from Stop n Shop with baby formula for your newborn.   But he has to protect himself against any threat you might present. I don't translate that into being an anti.  I think he's doing his job and making sure he goes home after his shift.

 

Then there's that LEO that posted in that PA forum or was it an NJforum?  He was talking about encountering someone open carrying an unloaded long gun. Like an AR.  He said something like he was "rolling hard".  Which I took to mean he might draw his weapon or tackle and handcuff the guy.  A little over the top I think if you can clearly see an open action and no magazine as well as no specific aggressiveness by the open, unloaded carry guy.  But.. I'm not sure if that's just being a dick... or being an anti.  Or just being really really cautious.

 

On your question again.. LEO Culture  Anti or pro.  I believe it's pro in most departments but I believe its shifting to anti to some degree.  That's just a guess.  Maybe some LEO's can give their opinion.  They actually work in that culture and will probably have a better idea than I do.  I'm on the outside looking in.

[MLArmory 33]

Letter went out to attorney general today 4/27.  Explained the problems I am experiencing getting these permits and how rude/confrontational LEO has been.

 

Will keep you all posted.

[Kevin125 4,772]

Letter went out to attorney general today 4/27.  Explained the problems I am experiencing getting these permits and how rude/confrontational LEO has been.

 

Will keep you all posted.

 

Good luck UD.  It would be great if the AG's office assigned this to someone willing to put the smack-down on whoever is holding it up.  Potentially causing them some concerns about their career.

[louu 399]

Letter went out to attorney general today 4/27.  Explained the problems I am experiencing getting these permits and how rude/confrontational LEO has been.

 

Will keep you all posted.

Did you hand write/type a letter and mail it in or are you talking about an email?

 

I have not been waiting nearly as long as you guys but to me anything over 30 days is 100% unacceptable. Its been about seven weeks since I applied for three P2P's. 

 

Yesturday I emailed Christie through this link, http://www.state.nj.us/governor/contact/ from previous posts in this thread. I got this response just a few hours later:

Dear Mr. louu :

 

Thank you for your letter.  I appreciate your taking the time to share your concerns with me.

 

I have asked  the Acting Attorney General , Robert  Lougy , to review the information you sent to me and reply to you directly.   If you wish to  contact Attorney General  Lougy 's office, you may write to the Department of Law and Public Safety at PO Box 80, Trenton, NJ 08625-0080, or call (609) 292-4925.

 

Again, thank you for writing.

 

 

Sincerely,

 

 

Chris Christie

Governor

[louu 399]

Gotta post again because the font got all weird after I pasted the email.

 

Iv'e been checking out this site,  http://www.nj.gov/oag/dcr/filing.html

and found on there you have to submit a complaint in person, not by phone or email.

If I'm off Monday I'm gonna head up to Cherry Hill and file a complaint.

[Ricky_Bobby 130]

A few posts up, Kevin125 very nice post - I only have a few LEO friends and thinking back, I've never really had the in depth conversation about whether they think a "normal citizen" like myself should be able to lawfully carry, etc.  I'm just theorizing but I think a lot of our police has been trained to think that less guns by citizens = less threats overall, less stressful traffic stops, etc - I could be wrong.

 

I did have an off the cuff discussion a few years back with one of my friends and he said something to the effect that he "earned the right to carry" off duty, etc, which I agree with, but what makes him more deserving than me?  Its like "being in the club", you know you're afforded certain things that normal citizens aren't, as an LEO.

 

Again I'm not generalizing - but I've never had one of my friends tell me "You know what man, I do think that the non-issue status in NJ if you aren't LEO, PD or security with tons of red tape is ridiculous, it would be nice if it changed" - I get the effect of "I can and you can't, and thats just the way it is"

 

Actually reached out to a friend of my father in law a couple years ago, shortly after getting my FPID and my first couple pistols as I wanted to practice with them and his wife worked at my father-in-laws office, and my FiL told me that her husband does a lot of shooting training and might be able to bring me to his range for the day, hes a CO - The wife actually texted my wife and asked me if we purchased the guns legally and asked if I was a legal owner -

 

That kind of empty thinking is what got me wondering - Is it such a foreign thought to some police that normal citizens actually would own firearms and want to talk/train with them about it, or is it usually a conversation that only cops have with other cops because they are in the same "club" so to speak? 

 

Not looking to offend any LEO's of the forum and I know the majority are looking out for our rights and would love to train, talk shop about guns, etc (obviously there are some top notch guys training people at all the NJ ranges!  2 thumbs up!), just some thoughts I've had over the years in my interactions - but yes I wish the culture would change overall in this state, and I think it starts with the people who are carrying daily for work.

[louu 399]

I really dont think the stuff Christie just did will help. Its up to us to start trying to do something about this so from now on EVERYONE who waited longer than 4-5 weeks needs to start filing complaints. We need to stop being scared and thinking "they" will "miss place" your paperwork for starting shit with these lazy pricks. 

 

Think about it, how many of us take these steps now, maybe ten people in the whole state?

If they start getting 1000 or even 100 of them it will start raising some flags.

 

My next step after the Cherry Hill AG office will be here, http://www.nj.gov/oag/njsp/information/complaint.shtml

[MLArmory 33]

Did you hand write/type a letter and mail it in or are you talking about an email?

 

I have not been waiting nearly as long as you guys but to me anything over 30 days is 100% unacceptable. Its been about seven weeks since I applied for three P2P's. 

 

Yesturday I emailed Christie through this link, http://www.state.nj.us/governor/contact/ from previous posts in this thread. I got this response just a few hours later:

Dear Mr. louu :

 

Thank you for your letter.  I appreciate your taking the time to share your concerns with me.

 

I have asked  the Acting Attorney General , Robert  Lougy , to review the information you sent to me and reply to you directly.   If you wish to  contact Attorney General  Lougy 's office, you may write to the Department of Law and Public Safety at PO Box 80, Trenton, NJ 08625-0080, or call (609) 292-4925.

 

Again, thank you for writing.

 

 

Sincerely,

 

 

Chris Christie

Governor

 

 

I sent it certified in the mail typed not hand written.

[capt14k 2,052]

Finally got my pistol

 

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk

[MLArmory 33]

Also have been contacted by NJ2AS as of yesterday.  Expecting response from AG this upcoming week. Standby.

[louu 399]

I went to the AG Civil Rights office in Cherry Hill today and inquired about filing a complaint. Long story short, they only deal with fake shit like people getting their feelings hurt not real rights like this. She was very polite though and gave me the phone number to the office in Trenton (same number that CC's office gave me).

 

I called that number and got transferred about six times and finally got a hold of a nice lady that is an agent. She told me there is no need right now to go to the office in Trenton. She gave me their email and told me to write them a letter (witch I just did) and they will write up a case and get in contact with me. She also told me that they get these cases from time to time and there is not much they can do about it. We talked about it for a bit and it kind of gave me the impression that "We are the Government and were not going to get ourselves in trouble". Hopefully I'm wrong but we shall see what happens.

 

I also just called the NJSP complaint line  http://www.njsp.org/information/complaint.shtml

and inquired about filing a complaint. An Investigator answered the phone, once he found out why I was calling he didn't seem to care. He pretty much just took my name, number and address and said somone will get back to me.

[MLArmory 33]

I went to the AG Civil Rights office in Cherry Hill today and inquired about filing a complaint. Long story short, they only deal with fake shit like people getting their feelings hurt not real rights like this. She was very polite though and gave me the phone number to the office in Trenton (same number that CC's office gave me).

 

I called that number and got transferred about six times and finally got a hold of a nice lady that is an agent. She told me there is no need right now to go to the office in Trenton. She gave me their email and told me to write them a letter (witch I just did) and they will write up a case and get in contact with me. She also told me that they get these cases from time to time and there is not much they can do about it. We talked about it for a bit and it kind of gave me the impression that "We are the Government and were not going to get ourselves in trouble". Hopefully I'm wrong but we shall see what happens.

 

I also just called the NJSP complaint line  http://www.njsp.org/information/complaint.shtml

and inquired about filing a complaint. An Investigator answered the phone, once he found out why I was calling he didn't seem to care. He pretty much just took my name, number and address and said somone will get back to me.

 

Write directly to Attorney General Robert Lougy.  He is basically the NJSP's "boss".  He will handle your complaint and make them expedite your request.

 

You are experiencing the SAME problem I have been dealing with.  No one in the government gives a fuck, and none of them are in threat of losing their jobs over poor performance or poor customer service so they really don't break their backs with helping you.  The NJSP doesn't care about you, your complaint, or your permits, they just enjoy collecting the 100k+ salary that YOU pay them out of your paychecks every week. Pitiful.

[louu 399]

Well I just called the AG's office to check on the status of my complaint. They said they forwarded it to the NJSP Firearms unit and if I have any questions call 609-882-2000 x2060. Does any one on here recognize that phone number? (that was sarcasm). So pretty much there was no point in doing anything.  

 

Then I tried calling the NJSP complaint line and checking the status of that complaint. They didn't answer the phone, hmm, maybe ill try calling from a different phone.

[PK90 3,570]

GO THERE IN PERSON!!!!

[Indianajonze 379]

Finally got my pistol

 

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk

 

well i must say, despite all the trouble, you picked a hell of a gun

[louu 399]

GO THERE IN PERSON!!!!

Okay I know you posted about that somewhere before but I can't find it. What's the address and who do I ask for along the way? 

[louu 399]

My P2P's came in yesterday. They were dated for May 3rd and electronicly signed from the superintendent in Trenton, I didn't notice that last time. Looking at my time line it seems that writing to the Governor's office and filing a complaint with the AG does help move things along. Anyone in week five should do the same. If you need help writing just pm me and I'll help you best I can. 

 

Seems like everyone in this thread posted pictures so here's my newest addition to the family.