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It's legal to pickup friends and go to the bathroom

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Governor just threw some bones to us.  The part I like best is they described some acceptable deviations - like getting gas, food, going to take a crap and picking up friends:

 

While not an exclusive list, some examples of stops or detours in the course of travel to or between locations that would qualify as reasonably necessary include: collecting and discharging passengers; purchasing fuel, food and beverages, medication, or other needed supplies; using a restroom; contending with an emergency situation; or driving around a traffic jam.

 

http://savejersey.com/2016/04/new-jersey-gun-laws-christie-justifiable-need/

 

 

http://www.nj.gov/oag/newsreleases16/Transporting-Firearms_Guidelines.pdf

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I read the memo in detail and while improved still leaves a lot of room for you to get screwed.

 

Read item 2 on page 4 discussing he directness of the route having impact on exercising deviations.  I'm not killing it but it's a pretty small bone.  

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So the "Study Commission" was real?

A step in the right direction for sure, but all I keep thinking is:  A little too late now huh Gov?

But at least now I can stop and take a poop without risking a 30 year sentence.  

And I can go through a drive-thru but I can't stop and eat at a decent restaurant?...fast food blows.

Now I'm thinking about if I actually have to poop, do I need to use the drive-thru for that too?...shit....now i'm "reasonably" concerned.

 

"Any means" changed to "Reasonable means"   Great....now define "reasonable".   

How about the effing Constitution says I can?  That's reasonable to me and 40+ other states.

Ridiculous .....and sad that some will probably consider this a victory and be placated by it's nonsense. 

 

My 8 year countdown to freedom continues.

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It said, "using a restroom," not taking a crap. It's clearly only for washing up. Taking a crap outside of exceptions still requires License to Give a Shit if you have a handgun in the car.

 

There. Now we can argue about taking a crap in transit for the next six years :)

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They enumerate some example of deviations, which in a way is good. Including stopping somewhere for one of those purposes and exiting the vehicle, leaving the firearms in the vehicle.  So.. ok.

 

He also goes on about it being necessary to limit the time a firearm is in transport.  So much effort by them to solve nearly non-existent problems.  This -is- a Nanny State.

 

But there's Section B. Relevant Inquiries.    This seems to direct LEO's to arrest anyone who refuses to answer questions about the departure point and destination when a properly stored firearm is known to be in the vehicle.  That part seems like a step in the wrong direction.

 

Also, there's no mention here of "possession" as granted by the issuance of a NJ FID as it's relevant to long guns.  According to the law (and Evan Nappen) I can drive around with my 12 ga. (action open and unloaded) all day long once issued that FID.   I find it odd that after doing a "study" that included transport, that this is not mentioned at all.  Is the AGs office trying to take that away?

 

On the issuance of FIDs and reporting statistics about time to issue/deny... that could be helpful in getting Anti towns like Boonton off their asses.

 

On the issuance of CC permits, it's helpful that they added some specifics.  And maybe more helpful that it could open up a suit based on equal protection.  Doubtful.. but maybe.

 

Glad something was done.  A lot more is needed than this.  Hopefully that won't require one of us being stabbed to death in our effing driveway next time.

 

I'm just not feeling like this was appreciable progress.

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  • Finally, the Attorney General will consider how new technology might streamline the processing of permit applications by directing the Superintendent of State Police, within 45 days, to convene a study group and report its findings to the Attorney General within 180 days of the group’s first meeting.

hmmmm... i believe the "nics" check would qualify as "new technology" in comparison to nj's archaic process that would streamline the process...if they'd look at the 45 (+/-) other states that simply use that at pos without dna sampling and redundant checking ..lol

 

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  • Finally, the Attorney General will consider how new technology might streamline the processing of permit applications by directing the Superintendent of State Police, within 45 days, to convene a study group and report its findings to the Attorney General within 180 days of the group’s first meeting.

hmmmm... i believe the "nics" check would qualify as "new technology" in comparison to nj's archaic process that would streamline the process...if they'd look at the 45 (+/-) other states that simply use that at pos without dna sampling and redundant checking ..lol

 

Don't forget the proctological exam!

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It said, "using a restroom," not taking a crap. It's clearly only for washing up. Taking a crap outside of exceptions still requires License to Give a Shit if you have a handgun in the car.There. Now we can argue about taking a crap in transit for the next six years :)

What are you worried about? Do you have a "high capacity" colon or something?

 

I'm sure there's a telescoping stock joke in here too.

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Nothing at all new in the "reasonably necessary deviations" directive except that they may not get you for a McD's drive-through stop. Or maybe they will (just to bust your balls) and leave it to the prosecutor or god forbid judge/jury. 

 

Thanks but no thanks, Mr. Christie.

 

OTOH if you don't do something stupid what are the chances that 1) you'll be stopped and 2) that a cop will ask if you have any firearms in the car?

 

The very first time I went to Cherry Ridge I made a left off of 517 onto Rte. 23 instead of a right, pulled into the Dunkin Donuts drive through for a coffee, and had a squad car pull up right behind me. I decided not to rob the place or ram into the car in front of me and I lived to tell the tale. 

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Now, there's a list of what is allowed. Be sure that EVERYTHING else will not be allowed.

No, it says other things may be allowed but the enumerated ones definitely are allowed.

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No, it says other things may be allowed but the enumerated ones definitely are allowed.

 

It won't be long before some prosecutor in NJ reads the jury the new "official" list of reasonable deviation "exemptions" approved by the AG and the judge won't allow the defense to mention the "other things" to the jury.

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A Pandora's Box has been opened for what you will be prosecuted for. If your deviation is not on their list, you are screwed.

 

Sent from an undisclosed location via Tapatalk.

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One thing I don't get. It doesn't seem like the law has changed. This is just clarification? At least for transport? So if a state judge wants to, he or she can just ignore the "advice" from Lougy?

 

Yeah, so the carry permit part is a regulatory amendment.

 

The transport is a guideline. A judge can and most likely will, ignore it.

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One thing I don't get. It doesn't seem like the law has changed. This is just clarification? At least for transport? So if a state judge wants to, he or she can just ignore the "advice" from Lougy?

The AG make the guidelines for the prosecutors throughout the state. If the prosecutor never charges you with stopping to pick up a friend on the way to the range.

No judge can rule if you were never charged.

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But there's Section B. Relevant Inquiries.    This seems to direct LEO's to arrest anyone who refuses to answer questions about the departure point and destination when a properly stored firearm is known to be in the vehicle.  That part seems like a step in the wrong direction.

This is my overarching concern. Each of us will need to decide...do you answer the questions and submit to a probable search and possible seizure?  It's remarkable how often self-incrimination occurs.

 

Or...will you exercise your 4th and 5th amendment rights from the very beginning of the traffic stop?

 

OTOH if you don't do something stupid what are the chances that 1) you'll be stopped and 2) that a cop will ask if you have any firearms in the car?

 

Of course there is this too...

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The AG make the guidelines for the prosecutors throughout the state. If the prosecutor never charges you with stopping to pick up a friend on the way to the range.

No judge can rule if you were never charged.

That's part of my point. If the prosecutors do not pass down the directive to follow these guidelines, the local LEOs will likely arrest you for a perceived deviation by the officer. And the prosecutors will charge you and the judge will rule against you or set up the jury to decide guilty .... Then he, the judge ...gets to send you away for a while.

 

How many 2A supporting prosecutors are there in this state? I'd guess at few.

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This is my overarching concern. Each of us will need to decide...do you answer the questions and submit to a probable search, possible seizure. Self-incrimination can happen fast.

Or...will you exercise your 4th and 5th amendment rights from the very beginning of the traffic stop?

 

 

Of course there is this too...

Slim. But how many people here are going to say zero to the LEO that pulls them over?

 

Whether you answer the questions.....or say nothing....you could end up in the same bad place.

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The attorney general just announced these new changes: http://www.nj.gov/oag/newsreleases16/pr20160408a.html

 

Trenton, NJ – Acting on Governor Chris Christie’s commitment to ensure fair and consistent application of the state’s gun laws that respects individual’s Second Amendment rights and protects public safety, the Office of Attorney General announced a directive and guideline issued by Acting Attorney General Robert Lougy, and a regulatory change to align the regulations governing the issuance of a carry permit with New Jersey Supreme Court precedent interpreting the statutory standard of justifiable need. Taken together, the changes will help ensure all applicants receive efficient and uniform consideration in the processing of firearm permit applications.

 

A Regulatory Change For A Handgun Carry Permit To Align And Harmonize The Definition Of “Justifiable Need” With New Jersey Supreme Court Standards:

  • Published in the New Jersey Register on March 7, 2016, the regulatory amendment will provide greater objectivity, consistency, and clarity in the application of this standard.
  • The regulation adds "serious threats" to the circumstances that could demonstrate a special danger to the applicant's life - including evidence of serious threats that are not directed specifically at an individual but which establish more than mere generalized fears or concerns - that a private citizen may specify in a written certification of justifiable need submitted with an application for a permit to carry a handgun.
  • The amendment also clarifies that the issuance of a permit to carry a handgun can be based on a special danger to the applicant's life that cannot be avoided by other "reasonable" means, rather than by “any” means, as the regulation currently provides.

A Guideline On The Reasonably Necessary Deviations In The Course Of Travel Exception For Transporting Firearms In New Jersey:

  • Currently, the law allows a limited degree of deviation in the course of travel when an individual is lawfully transporting a firearm. People may transport a firearm that is unloaded and properly stored and in prescribed circumstances without a carry permit: to and from their home and business, hunting, shooting ranges and while moving between residences. New Jersey law allows, but does not define, “reasonably necessary” deviations in the course of that direct travel.
  • The Study Commission found a lack of clarity in the statute that creates a risk of disparate and inconsistent application by law enforcement.
  • The Attorney General is providing guidance through this directive to law enforcement and prosecutors to ensure the law is administered uniformly throughout the state. The directive sets forth a balanced approach for law enforcement and prosecutors to employ to determine whether a deviation in the course of direct travel between two points with a lawfully-possessed firearm is “reasonably necessary,” considering the nature, purpose and extent of the deviation from the firearm owner’s direct route.
  • While not an exclusive list, some examples of stops or detours in the course of travel to or between locations that would qualify as reasonably necessary include: collecting and discharging passengers; purchasing fuel, food and beverages, medication, or other needed supplies; using a restroom; contending with an emergency situation; or driving around a traffic jam.

A Directive For Uniform Statewide Practices And Procedures For Issuing Firearms Purchaser Identification Cards, Handgun Purchase Permits, And Permits To Carry Handguns:

  • The Study Commission’s report noted complaints by firearm permit applicants about variations in the practices and procedures used by licensing authorities issuing Firearms Purchaser Identification Cards, Handgun Permits and Carry Permits, including processing delays well beyond the 30 days prescribed by law and the imposition by some licensing authorities of application requirements that exceed the state permitting statute.
  • The Attorney General directive requires licensing authorities simply to follow the law by processing permit applications in a timely fashion and limiting application requirements to those prescribed by statute.
  • To increase transparency in the permitting process, the Directive requires licensing authorities to submit, annually, data on the number of ID cards and handgun purchase permit applications filed and processed per month over the year, and the length of time it took to process those applications. These statistics will be posted annually on the Division of State Police web site.
  • The directive also envisions a more efficient and consistent application process, requiring the State Police, within 9 months, to develop and disseminate to licensing authorities standard protocols promoting best practices for reviewing, investigating and acting on applications for firearms purchaser identification cards, purchase permits and handgun carry permits.
  • Finally, the Attorney General will consider how new technology might streamline the processing of permit applications by directing the Superintendent of State Police, within 45 days, to convene a study group and report its findings to the Attorney General within 180 days of the group’s first meeting.

 

Big win for us.  Especially the part making issuing authorities accountable for their actions.

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