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Barms

Slide releases automatically when nag loaded

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Do you care? All the training and drills and muscle memory have shown me everyrime a mag goes in yuu rip that slide back to get back in the fight.

 

Well sometimes my slide autimatically goes forward on the reload and then I'm ejecting a round on the rip back.

 

Your guys thoughts on that? Change training to be aware if slide went down or just don't care if you lose one when you're ripping back from muscle memory?

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It is not an issue. Muscle memory isn't a thing the way people make it out to be.

 

I do a lot of reloads, with an M&P which tends to auto forward if you insert the mag like you mean it. Until it doesn't because you didn't quite mean it hard enough. It isn't an issue, you learn to deal with it, and I'm not sure why you are racking the slide every time, you should always observe the condition of your gun and take appropriate actions, everything else is a waste of time.

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I don't like relying on auto-forwarding. In fact, I train to avoid it - by holding the gun with the barrel pointy slightly further up and rolling the wrist slightly outboard, you an eliminate the auto-forward and I use the slide release, instead of slingshotting/power-stroking/etc... all with no issues.

 

If you are planning to take advantage of the auto-forward, practice running the slide. I have heard too many clicks, when a bang was required, following an auto-forward to trust it. At least by running the slide afterwards, and seeing that round get jacked out, you know it is loaded. It's faster in a reload than press checking or looking for the LCI.

 

Personally, knowing the gun is charged is worth more than 1 bullet.

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I think it also depends on the gun. If a gun is designed to do that (as M&Ps seem to be) then it works well. If a gun does it sometimes then you need to be weary.

 

Personally I think you want to be fairly well tuned to your gun and know what it is doing. I can tell if the slide picks up a round when it cycles.  If it doesn't run I can look at it pretty quickly and deal with the problem in quick order. I'm of the mind set that just relaying on often repeated drills and "muscle memory" is a bad plan when things go pear shape.  I like to give the example of a jam I once had where I was shooting downwards at a close target. Gravel from impact site bounced off a wall and into my ejection port as my gun was cycling. It made for a an odd jam, and none of the standard tap rack bang procedures would have cleared it quickly. Looking at it made the solution obvious. 

 

My point is you should use your gun until it fails in every possible way and know how to deal with its failures or behaviour as needed it for each situation, and deciding if two rack the slide on a auto-forward is one of the easiest decisions to make.  I think the various rote type clearing procedures and handgun manipulations are a good way to get people competent enough quickly enough, the same way that we tell new drivers to steer into a skid because most often it is the right answer for most people, but professional drivers can do the Scandinavian flick to go around a corner.

 

At least that is how I look at it. I wouldn't tell someone else they are wrong for disagreeing with me though.

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I can almost guarantee that the M&P series is not designed to do it. Being a lightweight polymer framed gun, it is just more susceptible to it happening as it is easier to create the amount of force needed for inertia to move the sidle back a fraction of an inch and release the slide lock lever. Glocks are also notorious for this.

 

You can really "auto-forward" the slide on any semi-auto pistol if you insert a mag with at least one round in it the right way, although it is much easier with a Polymer framed gun. This won't work with an empty mag as the mag spring pressing on the mag follower will prevent the slide release from dropping out of the way.

 

Hold the gun oriented with a 45 degree muzzle up and when you insert the mag you need to hit the frame directly behind the magazine. You may need to hit it fairly hard, but it will go.

 

When you smack the bottom of the pistol at just the correct angle when seating a loaded mag 2 things happen simultaneously: 1) The slide moves to the rear a fraction of an inch. This takes pressure off the slide lock lever and 2) Once the tension is off the slide lock, the spring that keeps the slide lock down against the frame and prevents it from locking the slide back on every shot does its job and pulls the slide lock/release lever down allowing the slide to go home.

 

I know using the slide release or slingshotting the slide to avoid an auto forward that it may take a fraction of a second longer to complete my reload, but that fraction of a second will seem lightning fast compared to a multi-second immediate action drill when you try to fire an empty chamber.

 

I agree 100% with knowing your gun and how it works and how it feels when it doesn't work.

 

I don't agree with relying to look at it to diagnose an issue. I work nights, it is not so easy to visually diagnose a malfunction by looking at it at 0 dark thirty. I just go into immediate action (move to a position of advantage, tap or push/pull, roll/rack, assess). If that doesn't do it, then remedial action is out into action (lock the slide/bolt back, rip mag out, rack, reload).

 

I do understand big-boy rules apply and if I can use vision to assist clearing a malfunction I will, I just don't count on it.

 

That being said, there are different circumstances at play here between what Vlad and I are doing with our guns. Depending on your circumstances, either can be correct.

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I don't really disagree with you, I think being able to do it by observation or by rote are both fine approaches. I think after a while when you shoot enough you can do both as needed, and honestly I don't think about it that much anymore, if something goes wrong I do what I need to get going again.

 

Smith knows their guns do this to the point that they put it in the manualm warning you that if you use excessive force their guns will go into battery. If they did that on purpose or not, I do not know but the M&P is the only gun I've ever handled that it consistently, at nearly any angle, for lots of different people.  I've never seen another gun that does it that regularly, but I haven't shot all of them :)

 

All of that said, I wouldn't recommend training around the gun doing it for sure, never assume it will happen. On the other hand be ready for it happen and roll with it when it does, that's how I think of it.

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Barms let's break down the senario you outlined, first you started with a slide lock condition. You then inserted the mag and I have to believe that you are not indicating that it is an administrative reload rather a combat reload based on your desire to get back in the fight. I would then have to believe that getting your gun up and running is priority one. I would advocate that you proceed with the need to get the gun on target engage as required and IF the weapon failed to fire you revert to your TRB or now it's all about TR asses. Ask your self these two things. First you are actively engaged the gun goes click.... What do we do..... If our brain is asking why we are already behind the eight ball.....You already know what needs to be done do it. Secondly I would never advocate dumping a round that you very well may need during the fight. You don't want to be in a 15 round gun fight with 14 rounds. To me administering a TRB or any malfunction clear needs to be an auto pilot process under duress and to me does not include dumping a functioning round that may be needed. Gun goes click fix it, kudos for knowing what and how to resolve the issue. Administratively you always make sure the round you chambered did and then top off the mag. Tactical reload we all know is a controlled reload when safe to do so. Your senario is a good example of a combat reload and needs to be performed without delay. As indicated many of us have different thoughts on what to do. Fortunately in training during practice we can replicate various issues, malfunctions , reloads etc. Train keep calm and be safe.JMOP

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