Jump to content
Newtonian

Why an AR?

Recommended Posts

At 100 yards ?

Also I'm not aware of the ability to build a .357 Mag SBR or carbine.

My point is unless you need a round to use in an AR that's subsonic the 300 blackout is pretty much a white elephant. Standard weight rounds in the 300 blackout give you pretty much the same ballistics as a 7.62x39. The 7.62x39 is cheaper and more available. If a 300 blackout floats your boat go ahead and have one. 99.9% of the people with a 300 blackout really have no use for one.

 

99.9% of the people should have an AR though.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

My point is unless you need a round to use in an AR that's subsonic the 300 blackout is pretty much a white elephant. Standard weight rounds in the 300 blackout give you pretty much the same ballistics as a 7.62x39. The 7.62x39 is cheaper and more available. If a 300 blackout floats your boat go ahead and have one. 99.9% of the people with a 300 blackout really have no use for one.

 

99.9% of the people should have an AR though.

Agreed. I'm actually very seriously considering the American 30 right now because I heard they may not be available for much longer. For giggles I ran the numbers through a calculator. I just bungled around with JBM for the first time so I may have messed up, but figuring the .300 with .205 gr going 1050 I got 482 ft lbs at 100 and 455 ft lbs at 200. For the .357 figuring a 158 gr going 1250 I got 498 at 100 and 417 at 200.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well I have SA and bolt in 300blk and x39.  The 300blk is far more flexible in loading than the x39 ever was.  I was loading 150 grain heads into the x39 20 years ago.  Was my favorite deer load for a long time in PA.  Well, the 300blk has now replaced it.  It's right up there next to it's big brother the '06.  Two cartridges that span a ton of loading weights and perform perfectly every time.  Having the resources to reload and giving split neck 223's a new life makes the 300blk a very reasonable option for me.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

OK I kind of got lost in the jargon here as my knowledge is basic.

 

It would be nice to have an evil-looking gun in 7.62 x 39 as I'm comfortable with that caliber and already have one or two rounds :)  However, I'm used to the negligible recoil of that round in a big heavy SKS.

 

Can you recommend a different platform using the same caliber?

 

I might also be talked into a smaller cal. 

 

Suggestions?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It would be nice to have an evil-looking gun in 7.62 x 39 as I'm comfortable with that caliber and already have one or two rounds :)  However, I'm used to the negligible recoil of that round in a big heavy SKS.

 

 

An AK variant would go nicely with your SKS :)  Recoil is pretty much exactly the same.

 

SAM7R-01.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I ran the numbers through a calculator. I just bungled around with JBM for the first time so I may have messed up, but figuring the .300 with .205 gr going 1050 I got 482 ft lbs at 100 and 455 ft lbs at 200. For the .357 figuring a 158 gr going 1250 I got 498 at 100 and 417 at 200.

I know this is off topic, but here is a correction I got on another forum.

 

 

You are in the ball park. I used the 208 AMAX at 1050 9BC 0.648) and the 158 XP 357 at 1250 (BC 0.206).. My numbers were a bit different but eye opening to the guys shooting either. with 308/357 in order.

 

ME   510/554    100 474/404    200 445/323   300 419/276   400 397/239.  Obviously the 300 with the BC flies right by the 357 in energy.

 

Energy is one thing. Lets look at drop with 100 yard   100 0/0     200  32.23/28.6   300  100.6/94.5  400  207.6/204   The up and down is pretty much a wash for either but I'm afraid that when I strt looking at 8 ft of drop with either it is gonna take some hard thought on my part. To adjust from 100 to 300 on either will take about 31 MOA + or minus.  That's a bunch. An adjustment to 400 would take right on 50 MOA. Probably beyond the range of most scopes. 

 

So yes the BLK has less ME but catches up at probably 50 yards + or -. I put them in as a 200 yard gun either way with maybe a 50 yard push to the 300 only because  of the trajectory.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It would be nice to have an evil-looking gun in 7.62 x 39 as I'm comfortable with that caliber and already have one or two rounds :) However, I'm used to the negligible recoil of that round in a

 

I might also be talked into a smaller cal.

 

Suggestions?

The truth is that main trouble with the AR47 is getting the ammo to feed and IIRC The first 10 to 12 rounds fees reliably, and in NJ you can't have that many more anyway. You can also get a dedicated AR47 lower from PSA or another company and that will run perfectly. What you lose is the ability to just slap on another upper in a different caliber. You will still be able to have different 7.62x39 uppers and change them out. I know that Black Hole Weaponry is working on something for the AR47 but it's not out yet so I don't know details. I can try to find out if you'd like.

In the smaller calibers there are tons of options, and you can really get great calibers if you reload. The 20 practical looks great, it is extremely accurate and flat shooting. There is also the .17, these are used for p dog hunting usually, what do you want it to do ?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

7.62x39 has more of a curved mag geometry versus the relatively straight magwell on the AR hence the feed issues. Also, bolt face was problematic and subject to failure. A case of trying to convert one thing a bit too much to fit another. Plus, 7.62x39 is a punchier round on a lighter rifle so I would think recoil would be worse than on an SKS.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

7.62x39 has more of a curved mag geometry versus the relatively straight magwell on the AR hence the feed issues. Also, bolt face was problematic and subject to failure. A case of trying to convert one thing a bit too much to fit another. Plus, 7.62x39 is a punchier round on a lighter rifle so I would think recoil would be worse than on an SKS.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I am using a multical standard Anderson AR lower with a 7.62X39 upper and have not had any feed issues. I have had

lots of FTF issues due to light primer strikes with Golden Tiger ammo. I had to buy a special firing pin and a heavy hammer spring. Seems to fire okay now

but that heavy hammer spring makes the trigger pull REALLY hard!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

My point is unless you need a round to use in an AR that's subsonic the 300 blackout is pretty much a white elephant. Standard weight rounds in the 300 blackout give you pretty much the same ballistics as a 7.62x39. The 7.62x39 is cheaper and more available. If a 300 blackout floats your boat go ahead and have one. 99.9% of the people with a 300 blackout really have no use for one.

99.9% of the people should have an AR though.

Lot of people using the 300 for hog hunting.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I can think of a reason to have any gun. I have a .300 blackout. Ammo is coming down in price so that's not a reason anymore.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Yeah, but it's never going to be as cheap or available as 223 or even 7.62×39.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The truth is that main trouble with the AR47 is getting the ammo to feed and IIRC The first 10 to 12 rounds fees reliably, and in NJ you can't have that many more anyway. You can also get a dedicated AR47 lower from PSA or another company and that will run perfectly. What you lose is the ability to just slap on another upper in a different caliber. You will still be able to have different 7.62x39 uppers and change them out. I know that Black Hole Weaponry is working on something for the AR47 but it's not out yet so I don't know details. I can try to find out if you'd like.

In the smaller calibers there are tons of options, and you can really get great calibers if you reload. The 20 practical looks great, it is extremely accurate and flat shooting. There is also the .17, these are used for p dog hunting usually, what do you want it to do ?

I know about the AK47 (I assume that's what you mean?). I play the "kalashnikov" sicilian defense, which is very sharp, at the chess board. Too much like my SKS, though presumably lighter (never shot one). 

 

I can't see using a heavy rifle for home defense, and we can't hunt with those calibers in NJ, so the gun would be strictly for target shooting. 

 

If you have any suggestions please be explicit because as you can see I'm not very experienced.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I meant AR 47 which is just a AR in the caliber of the AK 47 - 7.62x39. If the reason you want a AR is for fun and you want accuracy for target practice being that you reload I'd look at 20 practical or .243.

Honestly you may as well go .223, you can build a very accurate rifle, you can get 1000 rounds for just over $300 and you can have a very nice rifle for under $700 built exactly how you like it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

as you can see I'm not very experienced.

I am far from experienced on the AR or any other platform. Almost everything I know is not through personal experience, rather from reading and hearing about a rifle that I am very interested in from people that I trust. You may want to ask someone with lots of real life experience with these rifles like High Exposure for his opinion. Although his purpose for his AR's are to be battle rifles and not target shooters, and I suppose that most if not all of his AR's are .223

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks to everyone who has contributed to my ongoing education on this matter. 

 

BTW compared with the advice you get in, say, computer forums ("What color is your mouse and what year was it made?") your responses were extremely informative and BS- and judgement-free. Thanks.

 

I will definitely revisit these posts next time I have the itch, and pass some of these responses on to my son-in-law.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's all about having the right build for you, as well. I bought a new Sig M400 which i thought was a great rifle; it was NJ compliant with a standard nonthreaded barrel; no comp, break, yadda yadda. A few months later i found a good deal on a never fired Daniel Defense (insert really long model Lightweight version) rifle that was a few years old. With the break on it and now a bipod and nice sight, the thing is an absolute dream to shoot. It's a completely different ballgame from the M400 that i initially purchased, and i paid quite a bit more for the new M400 than the New("Used") Daniel Defense that i now have; I traded the sig for an M1a about a month ago. I now better than to rush into buying something that looks cool because i'm too impatient to wait for the right firearm; at least until i get my hands on the next handgun permit or a few extra bucks, haha. Make sure you shoot other peoples stuff and get a hang for it, or build your own to your liking. Research is great, but you can't really describe the way a firearm 'handles' with just words.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

300 blackout subsonic with a 220 gr bullet is going about 1000 fps giving you about 500 ft lbs of energy. You can do that with a 357 mag and still be subsonic.

These numbers are similar in weight and slightly faster than standard 45acp. Add that to the fact that there really isn't any good expanding 300blk subsonic ammo on the market and you essentially are shooting 45acp fmj. Not that i would want to get shot with that but that's the math.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.



×
×
  • Create New...