FID card required for Gunsmith work?

[n4p226r 105]

Yes to the best of my knowledge..... I have witnessed an inspection, twice and both times the repair book was checked.

 

It had both DL AND FID info....no problems

 

That being said it most likely IS company policy to utilize an NJFID as the primary identification means. However imo a NJDL would be good as well.

 

That being said, for ME AND ME PERSONALLY I would not transport a handgun anywhere in this state without at a minimum my fid in me. I usually also have a copy of the purchaser permit as well. I am not citing law....I am stating what I do and nothing more...

Except a FID does absolutely nothing for you for transporting a handgun. It's for long guns and shot guns only. Besides buying pistol ammo there isn't a reason to even own it if you only have pistols

[Redlines 202]

OK that is your opinion and in fact might be law. However, for me and me alone & IMO, it is a method that establishes credibility. See most folks and LEO's are not as well versed int he laws as say others may be. Having a recognized medium by which is totally recognizable and can only be obtained when fully vetted, IMO establishes, possibly, during a stop that I am not some run of the mill criminal etc.

 

It is akin to two other things, one being an article that I read years ago, I think it was by Ayoob, that a gun in a holster or with a holster to him, screams good guy during a stop. (paraphrase)

 

I also believe the example whereby those that by silver rounds, from unknown sources to the general public, do themselves a disservice. Why? Because if in fact a SHTF scenario happens, I subscribe to the thought that no one will recognize it. It cannot be demonstratively shown that it is in fact silver etc. However PRE-65 US coins and/or Canadian Silver dollars (also eagles) are fully recognizable and known to almost everyone.

 

So while the FID may do nothing, legally, while transporting a handgun etc. I think *if* you are stopped, it add credence to you as a person......... again my OPINION. YMMV

And what other right do you want to use that requires a gov issued card to use. Mabey we need free speech cards issued by the gov?

[Shawnmoore81 623]

 

 

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[mikeyjones 88]

Let's not jump on this girl. She didn't make the rules.

 

What is with getting your picture taken at RTSP?

 

If you buy range time, your picture gets taken. If you sign up for membership, your picture gets put on your ID.

 

 

Definitely don't agree w/ the policy of needing an FID to pick up gunsmithed guns.  Plenty of people in NJ w/o FIDs that are legal owners of guns.  

 

Also as was mentioned, it is not the store's responsibility to confiscate a citizen's guns if he/she becomes a prohibited person.  That's only so RTSP can generate more income from fees.   

[Redlines 202]

Huh?

 

Wtf is your point....?

 

Do you have an FID?

 

Do you have any state CCW licenses?

The point is why should you even need these at all. Your rights should not need a card to be used.

[Shawnmoore81 623]

Yes it is. And a fid doesn't change that occurrence from happening.

 

 

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[Shawnmoore81 623]

 

 

But it is his right to own a firearm unencumbered at all, without any restrictions right? No training, no nuthin - right - the 2A is his permit - right?

 

Yes it is his right

 

Having a firearms ID card does not stop this type of thing from happening.

 

 

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[Shawnmoore81 623]

Yes. You don't need speech lessons to express the 1st amendment or a law degree to use the 5th. The they inalienable rights given at birth and protected from the government. Not given to you by the government after you pass a test.

 

 

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[Shawnmoore81 623]

I'm gonna say more people then just myself have put the 2a next to the 1a. As a matter of fact they are kinda next to each other. You either support the constitution as a whole or you do not support it

 

 

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[Shawnmoore81 623]

Sounds like you are more of an anti then most thought

 

 

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[PK90 3,570]

I am with SM completely on this one. Nick, please stay in NJ. You're Perfect Together. Or whatever the motto is nowadays.

 

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[diamondd817 826]

Definitely don't agree w/ the policy of needing an FID to pick up gunsmithed guns. Plenty of people in NJ w/o FIDs that are legal owners of guns.

 

Inheritance and moving here from another State with legally owned guns are 2 ways.

 

You are legally allowed to purchase handgun ammo with a copy of your P2P without an FID.

 

FID card not legally required as ID when using a P2P to purchase a handgun, only 1 other form of ID.

From the NJSP website: "A Permit to Purchase a Handgun must be completed on each handgun transferred in this state. It is the responsibility of the seller of the handgun to ascertain that the buyer has a valid Permit to Purchase a Handgun and one additional form of identification."

 

And am I correct, that you don't need an FID card to obtain a handgun permit to purchase?

[AVB-AMG 530]

Wow, just frigging wow -

 

I am not sure what to say, other than while I appreciate your zeal comparing the carrying/owning of a deadly weapon to your right of free speech, comical.

 

Also, I find it incredulous that you cannot see, or are unwilling to see, due to some innate self styled crazed phobia that any restriction at all, is somehow and affront to sensibilities and all your rights.

 

In the specific example given, the person is a danger to himself, his family, those around him and God forbid people on the street, if in fact he goes somewhere where he can carry.

 

It is amazing at the lengths, some will go and not see common sense.

 

IMO this type, of attitude is *just* as bad as the anti's -

 

No one is saying it is NOT his right to own a firearm, no one is saying that he cannot own a firearm - HOWEVER, it is *HIS* duty to be properly trained in the handling of his weapon and the laws that surround the responsible ownership of it - now if that means before he takes possession of said weapon - he must undergo some form of training in basic handling of firearms etc.

That then is just common sense and good for us all.

 

So to finish out this, once again NJGF special tangent, until cooler heads prevail to silence the extremes on both sides, the extremes will continue to destroy this nation, it's citizens and the rights afforded them by their creator that we so dearly cherish.

That is an incredibly childish argument - please tell me you have more than that, please tell me that you have more deductive reasoning and/or critical thinking applied to this topic than this...... please tell me that you cannot be this - this, challenged in terms of rational thought. Please tell me that the time I have wasted to engage you on this, will bear some form of fruit or at least a modicum of rational engagement, other than "You either support the constitution as a whole or you do not support it"

 

The perceived injustice you see by your identification of a limitation of said persons rights, i.e. training - that those rights that are enumerated and codified in the USCONN - are neither limited, nor are they restricted by requiring someone to have some form of basic training at a minimum, in this particular instance. It seems your absolutism is clouding your judgement just as badly as it does the anti's

Nickjc:

 

I agree with your observations and sentiments expressed above. It is very frustrating that too many people on NJGF, let alone the USA, only see many issues in a black or white fashion and are unwilling or unable to ascertain, understand and appreciate the many "shades of gray" that can and should be factored into better understanding other points of view. As the saying goes: "Common sense is just not very common...."

 

While it is not required by any law, it is in my opinion that anyone who decides to purchase ANY type of gun, should take the initiative to become educated and learn how to properly and accurately use it, safely store it, legally transport it and properly clean it. This is quite easy in this day and age, either by taking a course at a range, view YouTube videos and/or find a gum aficionado buddy to teach you. That is all part of being a responsible adult, recognizing that firearms are not toys and if you do something stupid with one that you and others may be at risk of harm.

 

I am a member of RTSP, have purchased a number of guns from them and had their Gunsmiths work on a couple of my guns as well.

I appreciate the concern expressed in the "what if" scenarios described by diamondd817, but have not had any problems or issues with RTSP's policies on showing one's FID card or having my photograph taken. In my opinion, RTSP is one of the top indoor gun ranges/dealers in NJ and I understand and accept their store policies as part of their business model to protect their interests, taking into account legal and insurance ramifications. Is it a hassle for members and/or customers at times?.... yes, but I can and will deal with it.

If someone does not agree with their policies they are free to take their business elsewhere...

 

AVB-AMG

[Redlines 202]

With all their rules and add on rules it still did not stop someone from killing themselves at the range. Why take a picture is it so you can identify the body? Why is it that people always want more rules and regulations to save us. If just one more life could be saved we need more laws. Where does the stupidity stop.

 

Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety. Happy 4h to all.

[Shawnmoore81 623]

Just remember that the firearms id doesn't exist in most states and they get by just fine

 

 

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[mikeyjones 88]

Just to add on to their stupidity. I went there on Saturday. I'm a member with a handgun only package. So in the past, if I wanted to shoot rifle, I've paid $6 for port time.

 

However, this time the guy at the counter insisted that I had to pay $26. $20 for the rifle add on and $6 for port time. That effectively means that as a member I would be paying more than a walk-in for shooting rifle.

 

I didn't feel like arguing with the stupidity and just shot handgun only.

 

Once my membership expires, I'll do my best to not give them another dime.

 

I know this is off topic but somewhat related to the thread.

 

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[AVB-AMG 530]

With all their rules and add on rules it still did not stop someone from killing themselves at the range. Why take a picture is it so you can identify the body? Why is it that people always want more rules and regulations to save us. If just one more life could be saved we need more laws. Where does the stupidity stop.

 

Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety. Happy 4h to all.

Redlines:

 

That is not a fair statement. All gun ranges in NJ and elsewhere that cater to the general public are susceptible to someone, (usually a lone white male, btwn. the ages of 20-39), who for whatever reasons, decides that taking his life via a gun at a gun range is his chosen form of suicide. RTSP has encountered this situation more than once, as has GFH/Woodland Park, as well as other NJ gun ranges. It is very difficult to identify and subsequently preventing a person who is intent on doing this to themselves from consummating this sad and selfish act.

 

Don't tell us you are one of those fanatics who want to do away with all rules. Maybe you should research what constitutes a civilized society... Do we in NJ and the USA have too many rules? Yes, I believe that we do, but the challenge is deciding what to keep and what to do away with.

 

My solution is that all rules and laws passed by State Legislatures and the US Congress should have a ten (10) year life span. If after that amount of time it is deemed that the law is successful, desirable and effective then it can be voted upon to be renewed for another 10 years. If not, it would expire and disappear. We all know that there are many archaic laws still on the books that are no longer relevant to modern society and should be eliminated...

 

As far as giving up some of our liberties and freedoms, how do you feel about Congress re-upping the Patriot Act? Things are not always so crystal clear in today's complicate world....

 

AVB-AMG

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[PK90 3,570]

 

 

As a retired LEO I am surprised that you think an untrained person , a person that cannot even tell his weapon is loaded. ..is safe out on the street.... wow.... seriosuly wow.

 

 

I just have to chuckle.....

 

 

Nj and I are not perfect together..... heading south as soon as I can....

 

Btw did you have to qualify to carry ur weapon? What happened if you did not?

 

Do you have to now? If you do...why do you....? Eff the man...screw that...just carry....

A right to defend one's self should never have restrictions. AZ understands this.

 

I had to qualify because the State of NJ said so. There was never a chance that I couldn't qualify. Actually, everyone qualified. Shooting at paper is easy. As an instructor, I saw more cops that are unsafe with firearms than non-LEOs.

 

I haven't qualified in 3 years. No need to, as I live in Merica. If I wanted to, I would just have one of my guys sign off that I did. A piece of paper means nothing to me.

 

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[boo 6]

As a retired LEO I am surprised that you think an untrained person , a person that cannot even tell his weapon is loaded. ..is safe out on the street.... wow.... seriosuly wow.

 

 

I just have to chuckle.....

 

 

Nj and I are not perfect together..... heading south as soon as I can....

 

Btw did you have to qualify to carry ur weapon? What happened if you did not?

 

Do you have to now? If you do...why do you....? Eff the man...screw that...just carry....

 

Don't back down, this could be a great marketing campaign for you: Mastodon Ammo & Camo : Because New Jersey Laws Aren't Strict Enough, We Support Mandatory Training for Gun Ownership. I bet if you write to Mike Bloomberg, he'd even help pay for your marketing materials. Think of all the exposure you'd get from MDA as they highlight you as a gun store that "get's it".

[Shawnmoore81 623]

Ask any rso about cops at ranges.

 

 

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[67gtonut 847]

Wow

Can we get further off topic?

 

RTSP has a rule.... I am sure that rule was not enacted at just a whim.... It is their business with their monies invested and I am sure they are just trying to protect that investment....

[PK90 3,570]

II have no problem with RTSP. Their place, their rules.

 

I was just sucked into responding to a topic that made NJ what it is today.

 

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[AVB-AMG 530]

Question for NJGF Moderator:

Why is it when in the Forum directory, this thread shows "0 views" (posts), when in fact, as of July 4, 2016, there have been seventy (70) posts here....?

[67gtonut 847]

Question for NJGF Moderator:

 

Why is it when in the Forum directory, this thread shows "0 views" (posts), when in fact, as of July 4, 2016, there have been seventy (70) posts here....?

 

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[DeerSlayer 241]

II have no problem with RTSP. Their place, their rules.

 

I was just sucked into responding to a topic that made NJ what it is today.

 

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Could be insurance provider mandated. Everyone thinks businesses have freedom to do what they wish within the laws. Sometimes insurance company's force us to go further in exchange for coverage.

[Old School 611]

A right to defend one's self should never have restrictions. AZ understands this.

 

I had to qualify because the State of NJ said so. There was never a chance that I couldn't qualify. Actually, everyone qualified. Shooting at paper is easy. As an instructor, I saw more cops that are unsafe with firearms than non-LEOs.

 

I haven't qualified in 3 years. No need to, as I live in Merica. If I wanted to, I would just have one of my guys sign off that I did. A piece of paper means nothing to me.

 

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Paul - Totally agree.  Yes training is good.  But mandatory training should NEVER preclude your right to self protection.

Oh BTW I live in South Merica...

Little known fact...In SC the Castle Doctrine extends to your vehicle. By statute you can carry a loaded firearm in your console or glove box.  NO permit No training.

[Rob0115 1,105]

The policy was confirmed with Brad, another of the owners. No FID, no gunsmith work.

'

 

That seems silly. What if I don't have an FPID? Why can't I get Gunsmithing work? What if I inherited the gun or bought it as a resident of another state? I find RTSP doesn't know the laws or purposefully narrows them for some reason. It's their store so it's their policies but don't pass it off as the law. They wouldn't sell me a pistol because my FPID and d/l doesn't match, meanwhile my town had just done the P2Ps. The one counter person told me to run over to DMV and get a state ID, which is illegal, to make the purchase.

[Indianajonze 379]

i've enjoyed reading this thread. random thoughts from the peanut gallery:

 

1. the rtsp fid rule is bullshit. i want to like that place, but their prices are outrageously high. layers of bogus rules, marginal service and overcrowding to go along with it? no thanks

2. the amendments to the constitution are not ranked. 1st amendment is equal to 2nd, which is equal to 3rd, etc. therefore, fid card in general is unconstitutional (point about not needing an id card for free speech is valid), but here we are...keep voting for the democrats

3. as it pertains to point 2, training to exercise 2a right to carry is unconstitutional. if you are a law abiding citizen not prohibited, you can have a gun and carry it. period. most states get it. well 11 of them anyway. 22 more in the pipeline. SPOILER: new jersey is not one of them. shocking, i know

4. i like that the rstp person took time to respond and (try) to defend the store's position. really appreciate that. sorry you got jumped on

[302w 83]

I'm a little late to the party, but..

 

Nick, first it is FIDS, then AWBs, then smartguns. Next it will be semi automatic rifles, followed by pump and lever actions, and then bolts with a capacity greater than 3. You may end up in the UK where your OU gets stored at the police station.

 

If you push for mandatory training, you will get mandatory training. $1000 a year with yearly renewal. Just like the FID should be a smooth process and police are on video discriminating on the basis of sex, income, and race.

 

Give them a fraction of an inch and they will force six miles. You may be okay with infringing on your rights now but eventually they will come after M1s or whatever you are into.

[Howard 538]

Many are right and wrong here.  A business has the right to set any policy they want that does not violate the law - so don't attack them for that.  What they should not do is claim that a policy is the law when it is not; that is the only thing you can fault them for.