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Or do what Sunset Hill out in PA does - Range Officer is assigned to each renter and stands right behind the renter, ready to pounce if the muzzle starts travelling... I think the RO's also do all the transort to/from port and loading/magazine changes - the only time the renter touches the firearm is to pick it up from the port table to shoot it.

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^YES. Sunset hills was always great about it.

Plus, the RO's got great tip money as they encouraged everyone shooting to tip them.
So, they ended up making more money and we, as rental shooters (thats the first place i shot) get great hands on teachin'. It'd be very hard for someone to pop themselves with anything with how on top of us they always were. They practically hold your hand while you're shooting.
Raise the cost of rentals by a bit for those who decide to rent, but make it a package that includes one on one instruction.

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Simple, stop renting guns. Ever hear of a suicide at Bullet Hole or Paterson Gunsmithing? Both been around over 30yrs.

 

this. same with cherry ridge, stir and shoot and a host of others. i get that both gfa and rtsp are members here, but i don't understand how anyone can view this as a responsible and sustainable business practice in the long term. these incidents are doing harm to us as a community and are giving sweeney & company all the ammo they need to come after us. we can't even control our own community. any jackass can walk in off the street, cash and license in hand, sign a few forms, watch some dumb video and have at it. they could be deranged, depressed, drug addicted, serial murderers, rapists, recently escaped lunatics, who the hell knows. must bring a partner? sure, how about this fkn wife / girlfriend i've been thinking of murdering? the possibilities are endless.

 

i am as pro-2A as anyone on here, more so maybe, but where are the background checks? if they can't go through the same scrutiny i have to go through to purchase, they shouldn't be able to get their hands on one either, even if it's in 30 to 60 minute increments. just wait until someone decides they want to take out a few innocents with them as they leave this planet. it's bs. people are going to find a way to off themselves no matter what, you can't stop that. what we can stop is making it easy for them to do so in the one manner we actually care about. want to throw yourself off of the gwb? meh, i'll sit in traffic and it sucks, but it's no danger to my rights. this, though is something totally different, and in my mind it's easily preventable.

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Sad part about this..... It happens all over the country.  The insurance company for RTSP said they were overdue at the time of the 1st suicide.... 

 

We are only experiencing this now because we happen to have at least 2 High-Line ranges that offer rentals..... 

 

What is the answer..... I do not know.  Possibly no rental without FID card? ......  No idea, or $25 premium for renting without FID to cover cost of a personal RSO?

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It really is the way to go. Quick, easy, a bit of an adrenaline rush on the way down. No muss, no fuss.

 

If I owned a gun range in North Jersey, I would try to encourage anyone suicidal to go that route.

 

Its not much better for the drivers around you...I know one who witnessed a jumper....he stopped, ran out of his jeep, and jumped over the side...there was nothing any of the other drivers could do, of course, but it still messed with his head.

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Simple, stop renting guns. Ever hear of a suicide at Bullet Hole or Paterson Gunsmithing? Both been around over 30yrs.

Yes there was a suicide at Bullet Hole a few years ago. We used to do a weekly or biweekly NJGF meet up at BH. We pulled up and there were police everywhere. Still have no idea why the person did it at the range.

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Certainly is a shame, and yes can imagine how haunting that must be for those who witnessed it. But sucks for the people who truly enjoy going to a public range to practice shooting and enjoy their firearms, the media will surely spin it in some way to try and persuade that no one should have access to guns. Will end up being more fuel to the fire of those trying to take away our right to be able to protect ourselves and our families, all because of someone having some sort of mental issue going on. Will be hard for the media and half the politicians to seperate the few mentally ill incidents from the majority who go to a range for a beneficial experience.

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Not a bad idea actually. Not a tank, but a steel cable that locks the gun to the port and only can be raised enough to point down range.

Hmmmm, got me wheels aturning. :)

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

They do this in other countries I think...
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Google gun range suiicdes, it's unfortunately very common. It ruins others live and potentially someone's livlihood. The only words that come to mind are selfish. Don't drag others into your decision.

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Or do what Sunset Hill out in PA does - Range Officer is assigned to each renter and stands right behind the renter, ready to pounce if the muzzle starts travelling... I think the RO's also do all the transort to/from port and loading/magazine changes - the only time the renter touches the firearm is to pick it up from the port table to shoot it.

 

Eh... standing behind a guy who might be intent on sending a .45 ACP round through his chest or grabbing a handgun potentially resulting in a tussle doesn't seem like a good idea to me....

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Sad part about this..... It happens all over the country.  The insurance company for RTSP said they were overdue at the time of the 1st suicide.... 

 

We are only experiencing this now because we happen to have at least 2 High-Line ranges that offer rentals..... 

 

What is the answer..... I do not know.  Possibly no rental without FID card? ......  No idea, or $25 premium for renting without FID to cover cost of a personal RSO?

 

 

I doubt RSO's make $25 an hour, but that's beside the point. 

 

As others have mentioned these suicides have happened at BH and others that don't rent guns. 

 

Suicide is a selfish act by definition and therefore the person doing it doesn't care about others being harmed by his/her actions.  

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Not a bad idea actually. Not a tank, but a steel cable that locks the gun to the port and only can be raised enough to point down range.

Hmmmm, got me wheels aturning. :)

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

Like they have in Australia 

 

 

Tell ya what... its not a terrible idea...outfit every port with a tether system...for rentals with no FID = you get hooked up to tether...FID card holder = you're good to go(usually ppl with FID's that rent are looking for their next purchase)

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I've got to say that simply not renting guns will make it a lot harder to buy guns because you may not be able to try them.

Also it will really hinder those that are not yet into the sport. Someone like myself who didn't grow up with a gun culture and that didn't know a single gun owner would never be able to get into shooting. I clearly remember walking into a range in PA about five years ago and just shooting a bunch of guns for my first time, among them a S&W 500 and a FA rifle. I had a blast and had safe fun without doing anything stupid, and I knew that someday I'd want to be a gun owner.

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Classic Pistol in PA won't rent you a firearm if you don't bring one. That's a way for them to make sure people won't commit suicide with their guns. They figure out that if you have a firearm of your own likely you won't go to a range to rent one to kill yourself.

 

 

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Yes there was a suicide at Bullet Hole a few years ago. We used to do a weekly or biweekly NJGF meet up at BH. We pulled up and there were police everywhere. Still have no idea why the person did it at the range.

That was definitely an anomaly. Was that 1 in 30yrs? How many suicides in the last 3 yrs at Sure Shot, RTSP, and GFH? All rental ranges. How many suicides I the last 3 yrs at Paterson Gunsmithing, Cherry Ridge, or any other non rental ranges? I get that it's a big revenue generator, but IT IS the reason for the high frequency of suicides.

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That was definitely an anomaly. Was that 1 in 30yrs? How many suicides in the last 3 yrs at Sure Shot, RTSP, and GFH? All rental ranges. How many suicides at Paterson Gunsmithing, Cherry Ridge, or any other non rental ranges? I get that it's a big revenue generator, but it is the reason for the high frequency of suicides.

 

There was a suicide at Paterson Gunsmithing about 15 yrs ago. Woman took lessons from Marcos for a few weeks on how to learn to shoot then one day decided to take her own life at the range. Suicide note and all. She was by herself.

 

There was also an attempted suicide there about 3 years ago. That person survived.

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There was a suicide at Paterson Gunsmithing about 15 yrs ago. Woman took lessons from Marcos for a few weeks on how to learn to shoot then one day decided to take her own life at the range. Suicide note and all. She was by herself.

 

There was also an attempted suicide there about 3 years ago. That person survived.

Well, again we are talking about 1 every 15-30yrs vs at least 2 suicides each for Sure Shot, RtSp, And GFH in the last 3yrs.

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Stop renting guns, stop renting cars, stop letting people drive over bridges. 

They will come up with another way to end their lives if that is what they want to do.

Make people get a permit to buy Drano, or knives or any rope with a test weight of 12 pounds or more, and pass a law that says they are not allowed to twist 2 or 3 ropes together, as that would be enough to support their weight to hang themselves.

Make it a law to no longer have bathtubs filled more than 2 1/2 inches, and eliminate all outlets in bathrooms of homes with toasters in them.

I could come up with more laws, but I will let someone else chime in.

 

What am I, a durn Democrat?

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Suicide is indeed the dark cloud hanging over our gun culture. OTOH people in gun-free Japan and S. Korea, with twice the suicide rate as the US, somehow find a way to do it without guns.

 

I feel the same obligatory sympathy for suicide victims, but remember that suicides are also murderers. Their acts carry very similar implications for survivors as ordinary murder, except that their families suffer coming and going.

 

To swallow pills or turn on the engine in a closed garage is bad enough. A certain number of tortured souls will do that. To kill yourself at a legitimate business location, in front of your brother, with all the implications, is premeditated evil. 

 

I doubt that requiring a NJ ID card would prevent many suicides, but from a purely business perspective it makes sense to rent guns only to individuals who probably already own one. Guaranteed that particular range lost more business by having to close down and clean up than it gains through many many handgun rentals. And the bad publicity: Another reason to avoid indoor ranges.

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Stop renting guns, stop renting cars, stop letting people drive over bridges.

They will come up with another way to end their lives if that is what they want to do.

Make people get a permit to buy Drano, or knives or any rope with a test weight of 12 pounds or more, and pass a law that says they are not allowed to twist 2 or 3 ropes together, as that would be enough to support their weight to hang themselves.

Make it a law to no longer have bathtubs filled more than 2 1/2 inches, and eliminate all outlets in bathrooms of homes with toasters in them.

I could come up with more laws, but I will let someone else chime in.

 

What am I, a durn Democrat?

I agree 100%

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Yes, bad things can happen anywhere and can involve guns, cars, ropes, etc, etc.  And yes, someone who wants to commit suicide will do so, and accidents, suicides or other incidents can and certainly have happened at non-rental and private ranges.  BUT, it is a question of odds.  A rental range is literally the only place in the entire state someone can legally get their hands on a firearm without going through the onerous process of getting an FID card, and spending the significant time (finding a gun store or FFL) and money required to purchase a gun.  For someone who is depressed or deranged looking to do themselves or someone else harm with a gun, a rental range is the obvious and easiest choice.  I am a big fan of Anthony and GFH, but I totally agree with the posters who are wary of the gun rental process at these ranges.  There is a specific reason for a nut to go there and get there hands on a gun -- the easy access.  At a non-rental range there is less incentive, and at a members only range even less.

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To kill yourself in that situation is in fact devastating to anyone you know that is with you, and probably to anyone nearby, whether they know you or not.

 

I wouldn't call it an evil act necessarily. If it was planned as a punishment for the person with you, yes. But I'd venture a guess that's not typically what's going on.  It's more likely a cry for sympathy.  Thoughtless?  Sure.  The person is consumed with their own devastating situation, whatever that is.

 

I think some cases of suicide are pretty much a rational, appropriate act. Someone learns they have a disease that is certain to be incurable and certain to cause suffering, not just for them, but those around them, may decide to leave the building on their own terms.  The exit isn't good regardless of whether they wait to die on a respirator, or do it themselves.  But can you really fault someone for that?  I know there's insurance issues.  Some people plan around that.

 

But I'm certain there are way too many suicides that should never have happened.  In the last two years two teenagers in my area shot themselves with a gun kept in the home.  Both cases as I understand it were over a relationship gone bad. It doesn't get much worse than that.

Some people end it over financial disaster.

 

People have become hopeless.  But they aren't thinking rationally because they can't see a way out.  If anything needs to be done to address suicide issues, it should be to find a way to help those people find a path forward.  Some require meds.  Some require a helping hand.  Some require a whole lot of help.

 

But it's got nothing to do with guns, pills, car exhaust, bridges or passing trains.  If someone wants to end it... and no one convinces them they don't have to... they will end it.  The tool isn't the problem.  Hopelessness is the problem.

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I've been in line at GFH and seen the people ahead of me drop $100-200 on handgun rental, ammo, lane rental, targets and other up sell. They get visitors from NYC, Britain, Australia, China who see it as a once in a lifetime opportunity and spend their money as such. Not a bad return on renting out a $500 Glock. Rentals is a good business if you have the traffic and I don't see it going away.

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I've been in line at GFH and seen the people ahead of me drop $100-200 on handgun rental, ammo, lane rental, targets and other up sell. They get visitors from NYC, Britain, Australia, China who see it as a once in a lifetime opportunity and spend their money as such. Not a bad return on renting out a $500 Glock. Rentals is a good business if you have the traffic and I don't see it going away.

I agree.  I get why GFH rents and I don't blame them.  I just don't think I want to be at a range like that, unfortunately.  It is a very nice place.  Hopefully their planned  members' only range gets built.  

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If you ever have a chance, go to the ranges out in Vegas. We went to 702 and shot a full auto 249 saw. Sweet Jesus that was fun. On one of the outdoor ranges a friend shot a shoulder mounted rocket. a freaking rocket!! You can blow $500 there easy

 

I admit I don't know what the solution is, other than changing the GOP platform to support radically increasing funding for mental health issues

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Yes, bad things can happen anywhere and can involve guns, cars, ropes, etc, etc.  And yes, someone who wants to commit suicide will do so, and accidents, suicides or other incidents can and certainly have happened at non-rental and private ranges.  BUT, it is a question of odds.  A rental range is literally the only place in the entire state someone can legally get their hands on a firearm without going through the onerous process of getting an FID card, and spending the significant time (finding a gun store or FFL) and money required to purchase a gun.  For someone who is depressed or deranged looking to do themselves or someone else harm with a gun, a rental range is the obvious and easiest choice.  I am a big fan of Anthony and GFH, but I totally agree with the posters who are wary of the gun rental process at these ranges.  There is a specific reason for a nut to go there and get there hands on a gun -- the easy access.  At a non-rental range there is less incentive, and at a members only range even less.

You make a good point, and since it's a private(?) business venture, they have the right to set rules, and are not violating our rights in doing so. So, if they were to try to set up rules for THEIR OWN BUSINESS to try to reduce the odds f this happening, I'm fine with it. 

 

I'm very much in favor of reducing gun deaths of all kinds, just like many Democrats (and Republicans), I just don't think we ought to restrict the rights of people in America to do it.

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Unfortunately in the current political climate we are effectively telling people if they go for help, they will lose some rights so we encourage them not to seek medical help.

 

Somethings in life (or death) don't have solutions (especially government solutions which are sometimes worse then the problem they were supposed to fix).

 

Guns will be looked as the problem but they really have nothing to do with it.

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