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Indianajonze

Another Shooting at Gun For Hire

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I know some of the alleged details which I will not divulge out of respect for the living. I'm not saying it didn't happen because of the trustworthiness of the sources. However it's impossible logically to prove a negative, i.e. that something didn't happen. I can't prove that Al Sharpton is not the reincarnation of Ludwig van Beethoven. I'm certainly old enough to know that from Jesuit high school. Being there's no local news record (that I could find) going back to 2007, the burden of proof is on those who claim it happened, not on me to prove it didn't happen. I've made a calendar note to call Cerca tomorrow. 

A look at their relative I.Q. scores would be a pretty reliable indicator. :jester: as opposed to  :wizard:

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I don't think the issue is preventing suicide -- at least it shouldn't be.  It's one of public safety.  It is quite possible that a bystander at the range could be injured or killed when someone decides to shoot themselves. The argument would be that handing a gun to someone at a range where the only other avenue to get your hands on one in this state is to go through the onerous FID/pistol permit process presents an added risk that a rental range could attract unbalanced people looking to hurt themselves or others.  I don't think range rentals should be banned, but that is the relevant issue. 

Have there been murders or accidental shootings at ranges (the major public safety issue IMO) in addition to suicides ? The point to me is whether certain people should not have access to guns. Same arguments as I present to 2nd-Amendment absolutists: Should you hand a seven-year-old a gun? Someone high on LSD? A parolee who's been arrested eight times for violent crimes (who IMO should have been executed after the third or 4th offence but that's another story)? A husband who is yelling and throwing furniture at his wife? You begin there, and wind up with all the sensible restrictions that inevitably devolve into silly ones. 

 

Serious criminals are prohibited from even touching guns, yet as Cerca noted that a paroled murderer could have ass-raped his cell-mate the day before in Rahway and ranges will rent to him. Not a reason to ban rentals IMO because I haven't heard of many murders at ranges. Take the next step, someone who is mentally or emotionally disturbed. That's the deadly combination that gun rentals facilitate. Not cause, facilitate. I'm fine with that risk, since so many benefit from rentals. 

 

I know you haven't said this but many people have suggested that the risk is negligible or nonexistent or somehow is outweighed by the benefit. It's there, it's palpable. If you asked Ever Nappin' or Sprinkler Man if he'd sacrifice a loved one so that first-gen Korean immigrant teenagers could learn about firearms he'd probably decline. But if ranges range owners and customers are comfortable with it that's 100% fine with me. We accept it a lot more readily because the act in question is suicide and not murder, which to me are equivalent. Someone else is blowing his own head off. We spout pious RIPs, condolences, call each other names then move on.

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Have there been murders or accidental shootings at ranges (the major public safety issue IMO) in addition to suicides ? The point to me is whether certain people should not have access to guns. Same arguments as I present to 2nd-Amendment absolutists: Should you hand a seven-year-old a gun? Someone high on LSD? A parolee who's been arrested eight times for violent crimes (who IMO should have been executed after the third or 4th offence but that's another story)? A husband who is yelling and throwing furniture at his wife? You begin there, and wind up with all the sensible restrictions that inevitably devolve into silly ones. 

 

Serious criminals are prohibited from even touching guns, yet as Cerca noted that a paroled murderer could have ass-raped his cell-mate the day before in Rahway and ranges will rent to him. Not a reason to ban rentals IMO because I haven't heard of many murders at ranges. Take the next step, someone who is mentally or emotionally disturbed. That's the deadly combination that gun rentals facilitate. Not cause, facilitate. I'm fine with that risk, since so many benefit from rentals. 

 

I know you haven't said this but many people have suggested that the risk is negligible or nonexistent or somehow is outweighed by the benefit. It's there, it's palpable. If you asked Ever Nappin' or Sprinkler Man if he'd sacrifice a loved one so that first-gen Korean immigrant teenagers could learn about firearms he'd probably decline. But if ranges range owners and customers are comfortable with it that's 100% fine with me. We accept it a lot more readily because the act in question is suicide and not murder, which to me are equivalent. Someone else is blowing his own head off. We spout pious RIPs, condolences, call each other names then move on.

 

Murder and suicide are equal?  It sounds too extreme.  More extreme then "2nd Amendment absolutist", whom I didn't meet yet.

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Murder and suicide are equal?  It sounds too extreme.  More extreme then "2nd Amendment absolutist", whom I didn't meet yet.

2nd Amendment Absolutism is alive and well in any 2nd Amendment forum including this one. You're still new here, you'll see. 

 

 

The only difference to me between murder and suicide to me is that it's easy to feel sorrow and hatred at the same time, to assess the act intelligently, when perp and victim are different people. With suicide we tend to feel only sorrow. We can't boil the perp in oil because he's already dead but in fact he's killed (God forbid) someone's brother or parent or friend as surely as if someone in an alleyway off of MLK Blvd. in Newark did it. I've never known a suicide but I feel only sadness when I read about it. If someone confessed that he was feeling suicidal I would not leave them until they were safe. My reaction would be very different if my neighbor told me he wanted to kill Dagmar in the next house.

 

But when you analyze it dispassionately you realize that some frikkin asshole killed HIMSELF, and stole a loved one from a dozen people and dozens of friends and acquaintances. Probably why Christianity used to consider suicide to be one of only a handful of unforgivable acts. Nowadays they probably name a church after you (again I must add God forbid). 

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