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http://pmddtc.state.gov/compliance/Applicability%20of%20the%20ITAR%20Registration%20Requirement%20to%20Firearms%20Manufacturers%20(Publish).pdf

 

Hopefully the link works I have no idea how to post a PDF.

 

Looks like Obama is trying hard to make us all outlaws and kill more American jobs.

I dont really understand most of the stuff in there but to me it looks like anyone with a progressive press has to register it and it will probably be really expensive.

 

Looks like all 80% lowers will be outlawed and any kind of upgrades to your own guns will be against the law. 

 

Also gunsmiths will have to register and probably wont be able to afford it.

 

Can any of the internet lawyers around here break this down so we can understand it?

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Parts of this seem easy to figure we are losing our paddle while on the creek. 

 

 

a) Use of any special tooling or equipment upgrading in order to improve the capability of assembled or repaired firearms;

 

Does an allen wrench constitute a special tool? Who decides?

 

 

 

c) The production of firearm parts (including, but not limited to, barrels, stocks, cylinders, breech mechanisms, triggers, silencers, or suppressors);

 

I HATE when they say including but not limited to, it usually means they can decide on the spur of the  moment what's allowed or not. Like even carving my initials on a wooden stock just might get me in trouble.

 

 

d) The systemized production of ammunition, including the automated loading or reloading of ammunition;

 

Looks like anyone who reloads is gonna have hassles. "Registration required"

 

 

Not  a lawyer, I don't even look like one.

 

 

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You can expect a lot more of executive over reach by Obummer in the coming months. He's got one foot out the door and nothing to lose except trying. He is desperate for a legacy of doing something, most notably on gun control. And with congress on vacation..........

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I dont understand, is this law now or going to be law soon or up for debate?

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Parts of this seem easy to figure we are losing our paddle while on the creek.

 

 

a) Use of any special tooling or equipment upgrading in order to improve the capability of assembled or repaired firearms;

 

Does an allen wrench constitute a special tool? Who decides?

 

 

 

c) The production of firearm parts (including, but not limited to, barrels, stocks, cylinders, breech mechanisms, triggers, silencers, or suppressors);

 

I HATE when they say including but not limited to, it usually means they can decide on the spur of the moment what's allowed or not. Like even carving my initials on a wooden stock just might get me in trouble.

 

 

d) The systemized production of ammunition, including the automated loading or reloading of ammunition;

 

Looks like anyone who reloads is gonna have hassles. "Registration required"

 

 

Not a lawyer, I don't even look like one.

Don't see how a progressive press would be defined as "automated loading". I still have to insert a projectile and pull the handle for every round.

If I upgraded to auto bullet feeder and electric drive they may have a case.

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It is now law, it was an administrative review to define what the law covers.  So all gunsmiths must now register.  Fee is $2,250 for the license. This will kill the small gunsmith. This is to eliminate the small smith shops and better control who makes or modifies firearms.  Just like when they change the FFL requirements years ago to try to eliminate kitchen table FFLs. 

 

As far as reloading, in one section it states no registration required for manual loading of ammo, and in the next section it states a license is required for automated loading of ammo. I do not see the home reloader being affected by this ruling. However, the gun shop or range who reloads and retails will be

 

Obummer at his finest.

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"persons who engage in the business"

 

It may apply to gunsmiths, it doesn't apply to individuals who don't make a business of it.

Is that for the whole thing? Meaning nothing changes ges for us? 

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looks to me like it effects replacing muzzle devices as that typically requires "drilling, cutting, machining". What about "drilling" the adj stock for a pin hole? Or drilling/ tapping a reciever for a sight mnt.? Those are pretty benign actions but now need the extra license to do? Is this a goodby to cheap evil feature fixes?

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Is that for the whole thing? Meaning nothing changes ges for us? 

 

Well the words are repeated a LOT in that document for every section.

 

While it may suck for small businesses, all it means is that they pay an additional tax and get to pass the cost onto the rest of us. Is this good? Fuck no, it is an abuse of power, but it power we've handed to people. Look up the history of ITAR, it has been around for a long ass time, and the left and the right have liked to make an issue of it.

 

Oddly the people I know who are most familiar with ITAR are computer people, because it also applies to encryption technology and a lot of us have tip toe around its minefields and pay close attention to where and how you handle encryption software.

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Isn't this directorate only relevant to individuals or businesses that export firearms? That is what ITAR is all about. Not sure this has any impact on domestic activities that are undertaken for domestic consumption.

 

Adios,

 

Pizza Bob<---IANAL

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Isn't this directorate only relevant to individuals or businesses that export firearms? That is what ITAR is all about. Not sure this has any impact on domestic activities that are undertaken for domestic consumption.

 

Adios,

 

Pizza Bob<---IANAL

Bob that's not true anymore. Itar affects domestic component manufacturing also. So its not just about exporting anymore.

 

Sent from my Z812 using Tapatalk

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Is that for the whole thing? Meaning nothing changes ges for us?

It means some fine, small time gunsmiths will probably close up shop. That's a bad change for us.

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"persons who engage in the business"

 

It may apply to gunsmiths, it doesn't apply to individuals who don't make a business of it.

I believe in an earlier executive order related to private sales of firearms, that the definition of "engaged in the business" could mean as little as the sale of just one firearm! So, say you built up an AR type of rifle a few years ago and now sell it, you may be in violation! Of course all these executive actions are poorly written and difficult to decipher. That is intentional!

 

They, the democrats want your guns.

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Don't see how a progressive press would be defined as "automated loading". I still have to insert a projectile and pull the handle for every round.

If I upgraded to auto bullet feeder and electric drive they may have a case.

I won't try to say I fully understand the progressive press being involved called automated, I just figured they'd try to say they could ban just about any reloading if there could be any automatic component, such as having the powder measured with a basic tube rather than a scoop type.

Maybe the crimping of the casing on the bullet is done with an automatic clamping arrangement. 

I'm really a bit out of my depth here. Sorry.

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one thing to remember is that executive orders are NOT law...

And congress can undo them by defunding them - if we make a big enough stink about this, congress can attach a rider to an appropriations bill forbidding the ATF (or whatever agency enforces ITAR regulations) from spending any money enforcing these new rules. This happens often enough when a President pisses off congress by circumventing them.

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Parts of this seem easy to figure we are losing our paddle while on the creek. 

 

 

a) Use of any special tooling or equipment upgrading in order to improve the capability of assembled or repaired firearms;

 

Does an allen wrench constitute a special tool? Who decides?

 

 

 

c) The production of firearm parts (including, but not limited to, barrels, stocks, cylinders, breech mechanisms, triggers, silencers, or suppressors);

 

I HATE when they say including but not limited to, it usually means they can decide on the spur of the  moment what's allowed or not. Like even carving my initials on a wooden stock just might get me in trouble.

 

 

d) The systemized production of ammunition, including the automated loading or reloading of ammunition;

 

Looks like anyone who reloads is gonna have hassles. "Registration required"

 

 

Not  a lawyer, I don't even look like one.

 

The  systemized  production  of  ammunition,  including  the  automated  loading  or

reloading of ammunition;

 

The term "automated" is a modifier of both "loading" -AND- "reloading".  It means automated in either case.

 

As far as automated goes...

 

Reloading, even with a progressive reloader or manual reloader, can not be included in this as it's written.  That's not "automated".

 

Automation - a mechanical device, operated electronically, that functions automatically, without continuous input from an operator.

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When i was looking into 07 FFLs it seemed the general consensus was they needed to register and pay the large fee for ITAR if they were manufacturing any weapons. Most 07 FFLs already pay this fee to cover their asses. As i understand its a big reason why people don't get their 07 FFL and opt for the 01.

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I'm pretty sure this is not accurate and that it only applies to companies engaged in the import and export of defense articles and defense services. It's all defined in 22 CFR 120 if you are self abusive and want to read it. It appears from the CFR that this does not apply to domestic manufacturing where the broader ATF FFL license takes over. One man's opinion.

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I'm pretty sure this is not accurate and that it only applies to companies engaged in the import and export of defense articles and defense services. It's all defined in 22 CFR 120 if you are self abusive and want to read it. It appears from the CFR that this does not apply to domestic manufacturing where the broader ATF FFL license takes over. One man's opinion.

 

ITAR most definitely applies to domestic manufacturers that do not intend to export. It shouldn't, but it does. This is due, in theory to the fact they don't want a 3rd party exporting without the manufacturer being registered. 

 

It however doesn't apply to people not engaged int he business of whatever people keep on thinking it bans for individuals. Like reloading. 

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ITAR most definitely applies to domestic manufacturers that do not intend to export. It shouldn't, but it does. This is due, in theory to the fact they don't want a 3rd party exporting without the manufacturer being registered. 

 

It however doesn't apply to people not engaged int he business of whatever people keep on thinking it bans for individuals. Like reloading. 

Yes, definitely see that on point 1, and most definitely on point 2, thanks.

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WHERE is the precedent that gives this eo any authority?

 

 

Well, as the imperial president, Obama has granted himself this power. Though it should be noted that he has gotten his wrists slapped something like 36 times for executive/unconstitional overreach by SCOTUS and various courts of appeal. He just ignores the rulings, or has his hacks in the DOJ file an appeal, meanwhile the executive orders continue unabated. 

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one thing to remember is that executive orders are NOT law...

Yeah, tell that to the radical left wing ATF. Obama's EO's have carried the weight of consequence and over reach unlike simple EO's of previous presidents. His have done damage and have consequences attached. 

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