louu 399 Posted July 30, 2016 http://pmddtc.state.gov/compliance/Applicability%20of%20the%20ITAR%20Registration%20Requirement%20to%20Firearms%20Manufacturers%20(Publish).pdf Hopefully the link works I have no idea how to post a PDF. Looks like Obama is trying hard to make us all outlaws and kill more American jobs. I dont really understand most of the stuff in there but to me it looks like anyone with a progressive press has to register it and it will probably be really expensive. Looks like all 80% lowers will be outlawed and any kind of upgrades to your own guns will be against the law. Also gunsmiths will have to register and probably wont be able to afford it. Can any of the internet lawyers around here break this down so we can understand it? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
345Sire 158 Posted July 30, 2016 Parts of this seem easy to figure we are losing our paddle while on the creek. a) Use of any special tooling or equipment upgrading in order to improve the capability of assembled or repaired firearms; Does an allen wrench constitute a special tool? Who decides? c) The production of firearm parts (including, but not limited to, barrels, stocks, cylinders, breech mechanisms, triggers, silencers, or suppressors); I HATE when they say including but not limited to, it usually means they can decide on the spur of the moment what's allowed or not. Like even carving my initials on a wooden stock just might get me in trouble. d) The systemized production of ammunition, including the automated loading or reloading of ammunition; Looks like anyone who reloads is gonna have hassles. "Registration required" Not a lawyer, I don't even look like one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
siderman 1,134 Posted July 30, 2016 You can expect a lot more of executive over reach by Obummer in the coming months. He's got one foot out the door and nothing to lose except trying. He is desperate for a legacy of doing something, most notably on gun control. And with congress on vacation.......... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted July 30, 2016 I dont understand, is this law now or going to be law soon or up for debate? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ted527 21 Posted July 30, 2016 Parts of this seem easy to figure we are losing our paddle while on the creek. a) Use of any special tooling or equipment upgrading in order to improve the capability of assembled or repaired firearms; Does an allen wrench constitute a special tool? Who decides? c) The production of firearm parts (including, but not limited to, barrels, stocks, cylinders, breech mechanisms, triggers, silencers, or suppressors); I HATE when they say including but not limited to, it usually means they can decide on the spur of the moment what's allowed or not. Like even carving my initials on a wooden stock just might get me in trouble. d) The systemized production of ammunition, including the automated loading or reloading of ammunition; Looks like anyone who reloads is gonna have hassles. "Registration required" Not a lawyer, I don't even look like one. Don't see how a progressive press would be defined as "automated loading". I still have to insert a projectile and pull the handle for every round. If I upgraded to auto bullet feeder and electric drive they may have a case. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
T Bill 649 Posted July 30, 2016 It is now law, it was an administrative review to define what the law covers. So all gunsmiths must now register. Fee is $2,250 for the license. This will kill the small gunsmith. This is to eliminate the small smith shops and better control who makes or modifies firearms. Just like when they change the FFL requirements years ago to try to eliminate kitchen table FFLs. As far as reloading, in one section it states no registration required for manual loading of ammo, and in the next section it states a license is required for automated loading of ammo. I do not see the home reloader being affected by this ruling. However, the gun shop or range who reloads and retails will be Obummer at his finest. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Vlad G 345 Posted July 30, 2016 "persons who engage in the business" It may apply to gunsmiths, it doesn't apply to individuals who don't make a business of it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
louu 399 Posted July 30, 2016 "persons who engage in the business" It may apply to gunsmiths, it doesn't apply to individuals who don't make a business of it. Is that for the whole thing? Meaning nothing changes ges for us? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
siderman 1,134 Posted July 30, 2016 looks to me like it effects replacing muzzle devices as that typically requires "drilling, cutting, machining". What about "drilling" the adj stock for a pin hole? Or drilling/ tapping a reciever for a sight mnt.? Those are pretty benign actions but now need the extra license to do? Is this a goodby to cheap evil feature fixes? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
intercooler 41 Posted July 30, 2016 one thing to remember is that executive orders are NOT law... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Vlad G 345 Posted July 30, 2016 Is that for the whole thing? Meaning nothing changes ges for us? Well the words are repeated a LOT in that document for every section. While it may suck for small businesses, all it means is that they pay an additional tax and get to pass the cost onto the rest of us. Is this good? Fuck no, it is an abuse of power, but it power we've handed to people. Look up the history of ITAR, it has been around for a long ass time, and the left and the right have liked to make an issue of it. Oddly the people I know who are most familiar with ITAR are computer people, because it also applies to encryption technology and a lot of us have tip toe around its minefields and pay close attention to where and how you handle encryption software. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Pizza Bob 1,488 Posted July 30, 2016 Isn't this directorate only relevant to individuals or businesses that export firearms? That is what ITAR is all about. Not sure this has any impact on domestic activities that are undertaken for domestic consumption. Adios, Pizza Bob<---IANAL Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mikeyjones 88 Posted July 30, 2016 Isn't this directorate only relevant to individuals or businesses that export firearms? That is what ITAR is all about. Not sure this has any impact on domestic activities that are undertaken for domestic consumption. Adios, Pizza Bob<---IANAL Bob that's not true anymore. Itar affects domestic component manufacturing also. So its not just about exporting anymore. Sent from my Z812 using Tapatalk Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
10X 3,278 Posted July 30, 2016 Is that for the whole thing? Meaning nothing changes ges for us? It means some fine, small time gunsmiths will probably close up shop. That's a bad change for us. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pasu0115 200 Posted July 30, 2016 "persons who engage in the business" It may apply to gunsmiths, it doesn't apply to individuals who don't make a business of it. I believe in an earlier executive order related to private sales of firearms, that the definition of "engaged in the business" could mean as little as the sale of just one firearm! So, say you built up an AR type of rifle a few years ago and now sell it, you may be in violation! Of course all these executive actions are poorly written and difficult to decipher. That is intentional! They, the democrats want your guns. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Vlad G 345 Posted July 30, 2016 This thread has a whiff of Jade Helm about it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
345Sire 158 Posted July 30, 2016 Don't see how a progressive press would be defined as "automated loading". I still have to insert a projectile and pull the handle for every round. If I upgraded to auto bullet feeder and electric drive they may have a case. I won't try to say I fully understand the progressive press being involved called automated, I just figured they'd try to say they could ban just about any reloading if there could be any automatic component, such as having the powder measured with a basic tube rather than a scoop type. Maybe the crimping of the casing on the bullet is done with an automatic clamping arrangement. I'm really a bit out of my depth here. Sorry. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Oakridgefirearms 224 Posted July 31, 2016 one thing to remember is that executive orders are NOT law... And congress can undo them by defunding them - if we make a big enough stink about this, congress can attach a rider to an appropriations bill forbidding the ATF (or whatever agency enforces ITAR regulations) from spending any money enforcing these new rules. This happens often enough when a President pisses off congress by circumventing them. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnnyB 4,289 Posted July 31, 2016 I would hope Congress will address this when are back in session! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kevin125 4,772 Posted July 31, 2016 Parts of this seem easy to figure we are losing our paddle while on the creek. a) Use of any special tooling or equipment upgrading in order to improve the capability of assembled or repaired firearms; Does an allen wrench constitute a special tool? Who decides? c) The production of firearm parts (including, but not limited to, barrels, stocks, cylinders, breech mechanisms, triggers, silencers, or suppressors); I HATE when they say including but not limited to, it usually means they can decide on the spur of the moment what's allowed or not. Like even carving my initials on a wooden stock just might get me in trouble. d) The systemized production of ammunition, including the automated loading or reloading of ammunition; Looks like anyone who reloads is gonna have hassles. "Registration required" Not a lawyer, I don't even look like one. The systemized production of ammunition, including the automated loading or reloading of ammunition; The term "automated" is a modifier of both "loading" -AND- "reloading". It means automated in either case. As far as automated goes... Reloading, even with a progressive reloader or manual reloader, can not be included in this as it's written. That's not "automated". Automation - a mechanical device, operated electronically, that functions automatically, without continuous input from an operator. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kevin125 4,772 Posted July 31, 2016 I would hope Congress will address this when are back in session! Yeah... I'm sure Paul Ryan and Mitch McConnell will get right on it. /sarc 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
345Sire 158 Posted July 31, 2016 Kevin, thanks, that does clear it up a bit. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JackDaWack 2,894 Posted July 31, 2016 When i was looking into 07 FFLs it seemed the general consensus was they needed to register and pay the large fee for ITAR if they were manufacturing any weapons. Most 07 FFLs already pay this fee to cover their asses. As i understand its a big reason why people don't get their 07 FFL and opt for the 01. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
1LtCAP 4,259 Posted August 2, 2016 WHERE is the precedent that gives this eo any authority? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NJGF 375 Posted August 2, 2016 WHERE is the precedent that gives this eo any authority? Because he says so. Very little can be done to stop a president at the end of his second term (at least in the short term). Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nuclearheli 40 Posted August 2, 2016 I'm pretty sure this is not accurate and that it only applies to companies engaged in the import and export of defense articles and defense services. It's all defined in 22 CFR 120 if you are self abusive and want to read it. It appears from the CFR that this does not apply to domestic manufacturing where the broader ATF FFL license takes over. One man's opinion. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
raz-0 1,256 Posted August 3, 2016 I'm pretty sure this is not accurate and that it only applies to companies engaged in the import and export of defense articles and defense services. It's all defined in 22 CFR 120 if you are self abusive and want to read it. It appears from the CFR that this does not apply to domestic manufacturing where the broader ATF FFL license takes over. One man's opinion. ITAR most definitely applies to domestic manufacturers that do not intend to export. It shouldn't, but it does. This is due, in theory to the fact they don't want a 3rd party exporting without the manufacturer being registered. It however doesn't apply to people not engaged int he business of whatever people keep on thinking it bans for individuals. Like reloading. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nuclearheli 40 Posted August 3, 2016 ITAR most definitely applies to domestic manufacturers that do not intend to export. It shouldn't, but it does. This is due, in theory to the fact they don't want a 3rd party exporting without the manufacturer being registered. It however doesn't apply to people not engaged int he business of whatever people keep on thinking it bans for individuals. Like reloading. Yes, definitely see that on point 1, and most definitely on point 2, thanks. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SIGMan Freud 93 Posted August 5, 2016 WHERE is the precedent that gives this eo any authority? Well, as the imperial president, Obama has granted himself this power. Though it should be noted that he has gotten his wrists slapped something like 36 times for executive/unconstitional overreach by SCOTUS and various courts of appeal. He just ignores the rulings, or has his hacks in the DOJ file an appeal, meanwhile the executive orders continue unabated. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mikelets456 78 Posted August 9, 2016 one thing to remember is that executive orders are NOT law... Yeah, tell that to the radical left wing ATF. Obama's EO's have carried the weight of consequence and over reach unlike simple EO's of previous presidents. His have done damage and have consequences attached. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites