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YankeeSC

.45 ACP Competition class

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As I expand my collection I am thinking that something at .45 caliber and competition oriented will be my next purchase. So far I am liking the Glock 41.  What other .45 ACP semi-autos (non 1911) should I consider?

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louu is only partially correct. In USPSA there is a division called Single Stack that has a mag limit of 8 if major PF or 10 if minor PF and,as the name of the division implies, is limited to guns with single stack mags. This division was created for 1911 platform guns, but there are other single stacks, it's just the 1911 is the most prevalent. If you are going to shoot a division other than single stack, then going with a .40 may make more sense.

 

What he overlooks (personal bias I gather) is IDPA. CDP Division was created primarily for the 1911, but does not limit the guns allowed to single stack mags, but does limit the caliber to .45 ACP. So we often see SA XD's, Glocks, M&P's, Sigs etc shooting in CDP, they just download to the max allowed - 8+1.

 

So you may wish to consider those guns in the various iterations available in your buying choice.

 

Adios,

 

Pizza Bob

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XDM in 5.25"

Sig P320 - although I'd probably wait for the target version o be released.

 

The Glock is, however, a great choice. You'd easily be able to shoot it in USPSA/Prod,L10 and IDPA CDP,ESP,SSP divisions. Even better if you reload.

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There's always .45ACP for Revolver class too...  Alec.mc does it...

 

What am I? Chopped liver? What he meant to say is that Alec does it well. Me? Not so much.

 

Adios,

 

Pizza Bob

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You could... but why?  

 

  • I already have a 9mm and want an interesting alternative
  • I would like a .45 caliber to add to my collection
  • I would like to add a Glock to my collection
  • I don't particularly care for 1911
  • I'm not looking to get a revolver right now
  • I like competition

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Don't buy a .45 for competition, you will be disappointed, it will be almost always wrong.

 

If you want a .45 then buy a .45 but lets not pretend it is useful in any modern competition environment outside some extremely specialized divisions built around the 1911. Everywhere else something else is better.

 

Basically the .45 is outclassed in every game where it isn't explicitly protected as an endangered species, and I say that as someone who liked shooting 1911's for a while.

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  • I already have a 9mm and want an interesting alternative
  • I would like a .45 caliber to add to my collection
  • I would like to add a Glock to my collection
  • I don't particularly care for 1911
  • I'm not looking to get a revolver right now
  • I like competition
How about a CZ-97?

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There's no need for .45 in 3 gun unless you are shooting heavy metal division. Otherwise, capacity and lower recoil are king.

This is often true, but for my first attempt at 3 gun I was using my XD-45 and I was the only person on my squad that turned the pistol spinner with 1 shot. [emoji6]

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Don't buy a .45 for competition, you will be disappointed, it will be almost always wrong.

 

It's right for bullseye, both center fire and .45 stages. The 1911's dominate.

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It's right for bullseye, both center fire and .45 stages. The 1911's dominate.

 

Yes sort of, see my comment about protected species. First, most bulleye 1911's are on the edge of nonfunctional from what I've seem. Super accurate and awesome to shoot, but not something one buys at the store. I've borrowed a couple of bulleye matches I've shot and their function was compromised for the accuracy. Secondly, there is a dedicated division for 1911's so if you want to shoot the aggregate match without a third gun, then the 1911 is one that makes sense as you can use it in two divisions.

 

I like 1911s, and I like them in .45, but note that the poster does NOT want a 1911, so once you exclude that and its protected species status in Bulleye, and IDPA, and USPSA, there is little use for a .45 in competition.

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This is often true, but for my first attempt at 3 gun I was using my XD-45 and I was the only person on my squad that turned the pistol spinner with 1 shot. [emoji6]

 

Yes but how much did you give up every other stage? That's like saying a .338 lapua rifle is awesome for 3gun for those 450yard shots that may be 2 or 3 in a match, but it isn't all that good the rest of the match :)

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Yes but how much did you give up every other stage? That's like saying a .338 lapua rifle is awesome for 3gun for those 450yard shots that may be 2 or 3 in a match, but it isn't all that good the rest of the match :)

To be honest, I'm not sure. I think it's impossible to tell.

 

I think probably not too much on the basis that my fastest ever IDPA classifier time was done with a 1911. It's not a reliable indicator though because I suck at the classifier.

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Don't buy a .45 for competition, you will be disappointed, it will be almost always wrong.

 

If you want a .45 then buy a .45 but lets not pretend it is useful in any modern competition environment outside some extremely specialized divisions built around the 1911. Everywhere else something else is better.

 

Basically the .45 is outclassed in every game where it isn't explicitly protected as an endangered species, and I say that as someone who liked shooting 1911's for a while.

 

Vlad, can you put some objective examples around why it's "wrong", "not useful", and "outclassed" for competition?  I just want to understand better what your'e saying.

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Vlad, can you put some objective examples around why it's "wrong", "not useful", and "outclassed" for competition?  I just want to understand better what your'e saying.

 

Sure.

 

1) capacity. Even in our state, .45's are out classed when comes to magazine capacity.

2) Costs. You won't practice as much when the ammo costs twice as much as 9mm. It doesn't matter how good the gun is, practicing twice as much is always better.

3) Recoil. I'm a not a small dude or recoil adverse, but I have no way to shoot a .45 as fast as a 9mm or even a .40. Slow rolling recoil does not make for fast shooting.

 

So lets go through the various shooting sports you are mostly likely to run into.

 

In Bullseye, 1911's have a reserved division and they can be hyper-accurized for it but that is not what you are looking into.

 

In IDPA and USPSA there are 1911 centric divisions, but you are not looking at that, so you would be shooting in divisions where you will be competing either against higher capacity guns shooting .40 cal (10-12 vs 15 and that is NJ) or you will be shooting against  production division 10rd guns shooting 9mm which will be running circles around a .45 for speed/recoil/control/etc

 

In 3gun, the only time you see anyone shooting .45 is for some heavy metal divisions and depending on the flavor of 3gun even there some matches allow .40. Look at some major match results for 3gun, out of 300+ competitors, maybe 10-15 shooting heavy metal and that is mostly cause they are sponsored by someone who makes a .308.

 

For steel challenge, or other steel games it is all about speed, speed, accuracy, and speed, and faster cycling lower recoiling guns are the answer.

 

 

Having said all that, if you want a .45 then get a .45 and can shoot it in competitions because it is not excluded, but don't start with the notion that is suitable for competitions because mostly it is not, buy it because you want a .45.

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What do you have against 1911's anyway? Single stack is a lot of fun, one of the most challenging divisions and almost every one has competed in it over the years. 

 

But... I also think any gun in .45 is useless. In SS your better off with a .40 because while you are building stages you can decide if you want to shoot major or minor. Just bring two different loads of ammo. I'll clear this up a little more for you. I'm SS minor you are allowed ten rounds while in major you are only allowed eight. If the targets are close and you would rather have an extra two rounds go minor when you sign up. If the targets are far and there is more movement between shots go major when you sign up. With a .40 the same gun and mags can be used with two different loads. Also ammo is cheaper just like Vlad says so you can shoot more. 

 

Disclaimer... My main division focus right now is SS and I only have a .45 1911 because it was my first pistol and I didn't know any better. I also shoot limited minor with a 2011 9mm and production with a Glock 34. 

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louu is only partially correct. In USPSA there is a division called Single Stack that has a mag limit of 8 if major PF or 10 if minor PF and,as the name of the division implies, is limited to guns with single stack mags. This division was created for 1911 platform guns, but there are other single stacks, it's just the 1911 is the most prevalent. If you are going to shoot a division other than single stack, then going with a .40 may make more sense.

 

No. 

 

To quote the USPSA rulebook 

 

"Only 1911 production type pistols. Must be available to the general public and

have their basis in the original 1911 service pistol as designed by John M.

Browning. Pistols made from components that duplicate the factory

originals are acceptable. Frames must be metal."

 

That is the last paragraph of appendix D5 for the single-stack division form the current rule book.

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I fail to see the difference 2 rounds make between major and minor in SS. No way two rounds and minor scoring is a benefit over major PF scoring.  Next, if you are not reloading you are already at a disadvantage by not maxing power factor and the best ammo for you and your gun.  I find this whole discussion kind of ridiculous as not one competitor at these tiers or classes have enough 'competitive edge' to claim the gun is the defining factor. "The gun held me back". Yeah, right!  After you make A or Master class, then it maybe time to have this discussion.

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I find this whole discussion kind of ridiculous as not one competitor at these tiers or classes have enough 'competitive edge' to claim the gun is the defining factor. "The gun held me back". Yeah, right!  After you make A or Master class, then it maybe time to have this discussion.

 

My research on this topic seems to be leading me to this same point.  For example, while yes there is a technical difference in cycle times between guns of different calibers, the practical difference is that it probably really doesn't matter, at least at the level most people shoot at.

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... Having said all that, if you want a .45 then get a .45 and can shoot it in competitions because it is not excluded, but don't start with the notion that is suitable for competitions because mostly it is not, buy it because you want a .45.

 

Thanks Vlad!  That is very helpful and puts your point in context.

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I fail to see the difference 2 rounds make between major and minor in SS. No way two rounds and minor scoring is a benefit over major PF scoring.  Next, if you are not reloading you are already at a disadvantage by not maxing power factor and the best ammo for you and your gun.  I find this whole discussion kind of ridiculous as not one competitor at these tiers or classes have enough 'competitive edge' to claim the gun is the defining factor. "The gun held me back". Yeah, right!  After you make A or Master class, then it maybe time to have this discussion.

Sorry that is an incorrect analysis.

 

The 10v8 think only applies to single stack which 1911s and nothing else and broadly outside the scope of of the OP's stated preference. That said it seems to make enough of a difference that some people bring to guns to SS matches and pick which one they want to shoot based on the division.

 

Factory 9mm if very close to minor power factor ammo. Heck, some doesn't even make power factor. With .45 most factory ammo is WAY over major power factor, so you are most certainly at a disadvantage if you shoot factory .45 vs factory 9mm.

 

While people say it isn't the arrow but the indian, and that is certainly true, there is a limit to that as well. I would never suggest someone shoot a 4" .44 mag as PPC or USPSA gun, because it is going to build terrible flinches for a new shooter.   I wouldn't recommend a .357 desert eagle either or any number of silly options because while it may be the indian, you don't train a new indian with hardest bow to shoot, you train them with the easier bow.   For someone getting into competition shooting the answer is always simple and clear (even if unsuitable for me personally because of my choices): buy a glock 34 or equivalent gun of your choice and shoot the crap out of it with the cheapest ammo you can buy or load.  The indian gets good by practicing a lot for the smallest investment, with the most forgiving bow they can find.  Most .45 guns are neither the cheapest nor the most forgiving bow.

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