Two Gun Owners Pulled Over in NJ Receive Shockingly Different Police Treatment

[capt14k 2,052]

You might want to look closer, Cap. That's not a letter from an attorney....

It looks to be an evidence request form.

 

In my research today it seems there was an arrest. So the story is not completely false. However the threats and intimidation for consent to search don't make sense. If the trooper saw the hollow point round in plain view he could have legally searched the car without her consent. I still say there is more to the story.

 

 

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[W2MC 1,699]

Read the article, watch the video; then tell me again how the threats and intimidation don't make sense.

 

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/lawyer-busted-staying-quiet-traffic-stop-files-lawsuit-article-1.2626245

 

This is Rebecca Masarra, who was pulled-over for speeding and refused to answer questions...like "do you know why I stopped you?"  This was the NJSP up in warren county in October 2015.  Just last year.

 

Masarra is a lawyer, and is currently suing.  The State is trying to get the case thrown-out;  claiming that the troopers "acted in good faith and without fraud or malice" according to the article.

[W2MC 1,699]

http://www.nj.com/politics/index.ssf/2016/05/video_troopers_arrest_woman_for_remaining_silent_d.html#incart_2box_nj-homepage-featured

 

additional info from last year

[Zeke 5,504]

Interesting W2mc. Very interesting.

[Zeke 5,504]

From what I understand, silence is "obstructing an investigation " in LE rational.

 

For both sides,advice, don't be an asshole or you will be treated like one. Upon arrest, or later lawsuits.

[HBecwithFn7 296]

From what I understand, silence is "obstructing an investigation " in LE rational.

 

For both sides,advice, don't be an asshole or you will be treated like one. Upon arrest, or later lawsuits.

 

I think any resistance at all against what a LEO wants could be considered "obstruction."   The problem is that most of the citizenry fail to understand their rights and fail to exercise them.  I think LE exploits that as part of the "intimidation" game... to get what they want. You have to be able to play that game as well as they do. This means having the same or better day-to-day knowledge of "the system" as they do (which they'll believe you won't (unless you're a lawyer), and which it seems Ms. Masarra did, being a lawyer). It also means being prepared to be "arrested" and spending some time behind bars (like Ms. Masarra did), even if you know you're right. Just do what they say (i.e. don't give them a reason to shoot you).  That's what "false arrest" and "civil rights violation" lawsuits are for, as the troopers involved in the Masarra incident are finding out.  

 

I hope the court disallows the motion to dismiss and the trial proceeds.  I guess it will come down to "who knows who" in the federal justice system. 

[Zeke 5,504]

I think any resistance at all against what a LEO wants could be considered "obstruction." The problem is that most of the citizenry fail to understand their rights and fail to exercise them. I think LE exploits that as part of the "intimidation" game... to get what they want. You have to be able to play that game as well as they do. This means having the same or better day-to-day knowledge of "the system" as they do (which they'll believe you won't (unless you're a lawyer), and which it seems Ms. Masarra did, being a lawyer). It also means being prepared to be "arrested" and spending some time behind bars (like Ms. Masarra did), even if you know you're right. Just do what they say (i.e. don't give them a reason to shoot you). That's what "false arrest" and "civil rights violation" lawsuits are for, as the troopers involved in the Masarra incident are finding out.

 

I hope the court disallows the motion to dismiss and the trial proceeds. I guess it will come down to "who knows who" in the federal justice system.

Whilst I agree with you on an academic level. The world is not a textbook.

What as a juror would you value her damages at?

2 ish hrs plus tow, lack of coitus , ptsd, etc?

I think the officers were extremely overzealous. But, going blank does not help the matter. And this is some social media phenomenon that is not bringing us back together.

If it were you, and you were asked questions, um, how would you respond?

[r4nd0m 4]

How would the LEOs of this forum handled this situation?

[Zeke 5,504]

How would the LEOs of this forum handled this situation?

I will be very surprised if they chime in.

[HBecwithFn7 296]

Whilst I agree with you on an academic level. The world is not a textbook.

What as a juror would you value her damages at?

2 ish hrs plus tow, lack of coitus , ptsd, etc?

It might not be about "compensatory" damages to her, the victim. It may also be about "punitive" damages against the defendant.  In the one civil tort case on which I did serve as a juror (in fact the foreman of the jury), we rendered a verdict that had both elements (well, actually 3). 1)  A compensatory damage amount for damages the victim suffered. 2) A %age subtraction from that compensatory amount, if it was found that there was any "contributory negligence" by the plaintiff/victim (there was none in this case), and 3) a "punitive damage" amount to punish the defendant.   I'm thinking, in this case, the emphasis would probably be on the "punitive" side...

 

I think the officers were extremely overzealous. But, going blank does not help the matter. And this is some social media phenomenon that is not bringing us back together.

If it were you, and you were asked questions, um, how would you respond?

 

First, I would do whatever I could to "avoid" being stopped in the first place (driving the speed limit, not standing out in traffic, etc.).  Failing that,  I would comply with any physical orders (turn off the car, produce documents, etc. put your hands where I can see them, etc.).  If asked, "Do you know why I stopped you?" I would reply, "No I don't, sir."  And then we'd take it from there. I would never consent to a search of the vehicle and insist on a warrant. If asked a question that I feel might be a trap, I would not answer. I would assert my rights. If they arrest me for that, I'd have my lawyer deal with it accordingly and take the appropriate legal actions.

[Zeke 5,504]

I think we are on the same page

[capt14k 2,052]

Well maybe there is an issue in Warren County with the NJSP. IMO the problem with policing in this country in general is military members are being given hiring preference and are coming straight from a war zone to American streets. They think they can treat American citizens as Iraqi insurgents. They are not hiring the best and brightest. As a matter of fact they are jiggering less intelligent people because people of lower intelligence can be more easily controlled.

 

The attorney had every right to say nothing. If I was her and I didn't feel like dealing with them I would have said "I don't care why you are pulling me over if you plan on writing a ticket write it, if not let me be on my way, but that is the last communication I am having with you. I am now invoking my right to remain silent". If they arrest me looks like good grounds for a lawsuit. Hell if she wins a decent amount I may even think about doing exactly that.

 

The police need to be held accountable. They had her license, registration, and insurance there was no need for any further conversation.

 

As for the Meg Fellenbaum Story I still don't know if I believe it 100% but since two of the troopers up there were hired recently and likely have a military background it seems much more believable.

 

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[HBecwithFn7 296]

Well maybe there is an issue in Warren County with the NJSP. IMO the problem with policing in this country in general is military members are being given hiring preference and are coming straight from a war zone to American streets. They think they can treat American citizens as Iraqi insurgents. They are not hiring the best and brightest. As a matter of fact they are jiggering less intelligent people because people of lower intelligence can be more easily controlled.

 

The attorney had every right to say nothing. If I was her and I didn't feel like dealing with them I would have said "I don't care why you are pulling me over if you plan on writing a ticket write it, if not let me be on my way, but that is the last communication I am having with you. I am now invoking my right to remain silent". If they arrest me looks like good grounds for a lawsuit. Hell if she wins a decent amount I may even think about doing exactly that.

 

The police need to be held accountable. They had her license, registration, and insurance there was no need for any further conversation.

 

As for the Meg Fellenbaum Story I still don't know if I believe it 100% but since two of the troopers up there were hired recently and likely have a military background it seems much more believable.

 

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The Hope Barracks did have a bit of a reputation, as I recall.  The Netcong  & Washington Barracks were not as bad.

 

I'm not sure it's the "military" cultural factor that's involved. I think it more an NJSP cultural factor... things taught in the "academy..." things taught by "management" and senior troopers.  In essence, the epitome of "Us vs. them."    One learns to "prevail at all costs..."   One learns quickly how "the system works" and how to exploit it to prevail over the average citizen that doesn't know it as well as they do.  The only people that seem to know the system better than troopers (and whom they treat differently) are lawyers, once they determine they are lawyers. I guess in Ms. Masarra's case, they didn't inquire as to her status soon enough.

 

That said, I think local LEAs are much more "customer service" oriented.  I worked very closely with the LEA in the towns where I served as an EMT, and they are nothing like NJSP. Much more "user friendly."   Of course, there are exceptions everywhere, and at both extremes,  but I think what's happening here is more a matter of NJSP culture than anything else.

[capt14k 2,052]

The Hope Barracks did have a bit of a reputation, as I recall. The Netcong & Washington Barracks were not as bad.

 

I'm not sure it's the "military" cultural factor that's involved. I think it more an NJSP cultural factor... things taught in the "academy..." things taught by "management" and senior troopers. In essence, the epitome of "Us vs. them." One learns to "prevail at all costs..." One learns quickly how "the system works" and how to exploit it to prevail over the average citizen that doesn't know it as well as they do. The only people that seem to know the system better than troopers (and whom they treat differently) are lawyers, once they determine they are lawyers. I guess in Ms. Masarra's case, they didn't inquire as to her status soon enough.

 

That said, I think local LEAs are much more "customer service" oriented. I worked very closely with the LEA in the towns where I served as an EMT, and they are nothing like NJSP. Much more "user friendly." Of course, there are exceptions everywhere, and at both extremes, but I think what's happening here is more a matter of NJSP culture than anything else.

My experience has been the exact opposite. The local township police you tend to find more angry jerkoffs. The NJSP I have never had an issue with, even when I was younger if you were cool they were cool. The military presence in policing is throughout the country and I think a big reason for the rise in bad police shootings. Now it seems the public has begun to shoot back. I figured it would eventually come to this. Police departments need to look at community policing and not IDF style of policing. The older police are not bad to deal with. The younger ones have more of a chip on their shoulder than ever before.

 

 

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[capt14k 2,052]

*this* -

 

I have an interaction with a retired njsp - and the attitude because ' he was a trooper ', is enough to make you wanna puke - *yet* others that I have met and are from passaic county sheriff's, nypd, sussex sheriff's, ft lee (lol) are aces.

I've never had a bad experience with any cops over the age of 40 since I was 21. I am good friends with a Trooper my age who I went to school with. Through him I have met many other troopers over the years. Some are retired some still working. All of them who are retired are cool as can be. One in particular owns a tree service now and is one of the nicest people you will ever meet. The younger troopers I was not impressed by at the Belmar House. Surprisingly the older ones too were out of control so I can understand your feelings about them. The younger local police I have yet to have a good experience with. One little Po dunk town in particular I keep getting pulled over by their new crop. None last too long there. Never are they nice. I hand them my license, registration, insurance, and family member cards for FOP, PBA, and NJSP. They hand everything back and walk away. Not even a have a nice day. Half the time no explanation for why they stopped me. Retired NYPD have always been cool.

 

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