Election and National Carry Reciprocity

[capt14k 2,052]

IF this bill is passed as written, I'll bet NJ starts issuing CCW's to get in on the $$$ it would collect by issuing them. I for one would not get a NJ CCW and look to see which state issues the cheapest out of state CCW and get theirs. For all the years they have been denying us, it would put a smile on my face to be carrying in NJ and knowing that not one dime for the permit I have is going to this state. I would hope that others fell the same way, as they say "payback is a bitch."

I agree, but my guess is the final draft will make sure that home state CCW, if it is will issue must be obtained, or something to that effect. Otherwise the Federal Government would in a de facto manner be taking funds from the states. For instance if Florida charges $100 and Georgia charges $40 many Florida residents would simply get a Georgia License. I hope they do include such a provision. Otherwise it will give states like NJ a grounds for appeal. If they don't and we can use out of state absolutely NJ gets no money from me.

 

I also believe this will all happen quickly. Once new conservative justice is seated, bill will be signed into law, NJ and other states will challenge, but Supreme Court will fast track the case and decide it is Constitutional. Total time til concealed carry in NJ = less than 6 months. There is no 10th Amendment issue because of 2nd Amendment and precedence with driver's licenses.

 

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[Fred2 367]

I agree, but my guess is the final draft will make sure that home state CCW, if it is will issue must be obtained, or something to that effect. Otherwise the Federal Government would in a de facto manner be taking funds from the states. For instance if Florida charges $100 and Georgia charges $40 many Florida residents would simply get a Georgia License. I hope they do include such a provision. Otherwise it will give states like NJ a grounds for appeal. If they don't and we can use out of state absolutely NJ gets no money from me.

 

I also believe this will all happen quickly. Once new conservative justice is seated, bill will be signed into law, NJ and other states will challenge, but Supreme Court will fast track the case and decide it is Constitutional. Total time til concealed carry in NJ = less than 6 months. There is no 10th Amendment issue because of 2nd Amendment and precedence with driver's licenses.

 

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If we are taking about a right, why should there be any fee required?

[capt14k 2,052]

If we are taking about a right, why should there be any fee required?

Good point. There really shouldn't, but they damn near charge us for everything we do. They charge us for using indoor plumbing and water. Carbon taxes just about charge us for breathing.

 

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[capt14k 2,052]

I thought this was a good article about a poor court ruling regarding the Second Amendment. Ultimately I feel we are going to need a Supreme Court Ruling that defines the Second Amendment once and for all. Hopefully national reciprocity act will fast track such a ruling.

 

https://www.google.com/amp/www.forbes.com/sites/frankminiter/2016/06/10/why-the-ninth-circuits-concealed-carry-gun-ruling-is-nonsense/

 

Unfortunately I think the fees are staying. They will argue the fees aren't for the right to carry but to cover the administrative cost to insure those that have lost their gun rights don't carry. Which is BS because in most states the fees far exceed the costs.

 

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[son of sam 9]

For anyone who is still not convinced that none of the reciprocity laws will allow NJ residents to carry in NJ with an out of state permit, listen to Scott Bach's interview on the most recent GFH radio podcast,  He breaks it down quite clearly.  Definitively, these bills will not help us directly.  Only litigation will do that, and that will take a very long time.  It will be fun to watch the fallout however.

I have to agree. Regardless of the actions of the rest of the country NJ, NY, CT, CA, MD will still have an uphill battle. However, it will give us a national precedence and it will raise awareness among our populace about the restrictions. No way will NJ have CCW in 6 months as some of you hope. Small chance that the US will have reciprocity and NJ may honor out of state resident license. Our great states constitution excludes it/us from many national laws. think of the ACA (Obamacare) and how NJ has its own exchange rather than be part of the national exchange. And our liberal populace and rulers love the ACA. They do not want the CCW.

[HBecwithFn7 296]

I have to agree. Regardless of the actions of the rest of the country NJ, NY, CT, CA, MD will still have an uphill battle. However, it will give us a national precedence and it will raise awareness among our populace about the restrictions. No way will NJ have CCW in 6 months as some of you hope. Small chance that the US will have reciprocity and NJ may honor out of state resident license. Our great states constitution excludes it/us from many national laws. think of the ACA (Obamacare) and how NJ has its own exchange rather than be part of the national exchange. And our liberal populace and rulers love the ACA. They do not want the CCW.

 

And Massachusetts, Hawaii, etc.  None of these states will give up without a huge fight.  I think the only way the states will give in is if the Feds start tying compliance with the reciprocity laws  to the disbursement of Federal funds for various "state stuff," just as they did with raising the drinking age to 21 and highway funds.  Suposedly, it's illegal to do that now, but maybe we should rethink that.

[Zeke 5,504]

And Massachusetts, Hawaii, etc. None of these states will give up without a huge fight. I think the only way the states will give in is if the Feds start tying compliance with the reciprocity laws to the disbursement of Federal funds for various "state stuff," just as they did with raising the drinking age to 21 and highway funds. Suposedly, it's illegal to do that now, but maybe we should rethink that.

Tie these states as the same with " sanctuary cities"

Notice a trend.

 

Are you reaaaaaddddyyyyy toooo ruuuummmmmblllle!

[tattooo 220]

Any news on this since the election ?

 

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[xXxplosive 824]

I have to agree. Regardless of the actions of the rest of the country NJ, NY, CT, CA, MD will still have an uphill battle. However, it will give us a national precedence and it will raise awareness among our populace about the restrictions. No way will NJ have CCW in 6 months as some of you hope. Small chance that the US will have reciprocity and NJ may honor out of state resident license. Our great states constitution excludes it/us from many national laws. think of the ACA (Obamacare) and how NJ has its own exchange rather than be part of the national exchange. And our liberal populace and rulers love the ACA. They do not want the CCW.

 

IMO.....NJSP do not want it along with many local depts.

[SJG 253]

For NJ people if "home state" ultimately comes down to what State issued your drivers license and CCW it is not a big deal to get a DL and CCW from a State like PA and under the proposed federal statute be able to carry here. There is nothing that a prevents a person from having more than one residence or as it is sometimes called dual residence. If you own property out of State or are a tenant or a tenant in common or joint tenant in a leasehold or a tenant in common in  a sublease you would qualify in any state to get a driver's license. Just have some mail delivered to you out of state. This is why, as a practicable matter, NJ will have to fall into lockstep.

[DirtyDigz 1,812]

Oh boy, here's my new side hustle - purchase 10 acres in PA, subdivide each acre into 100 parcels and lease each one out at $100 / year to a NJ resident as their PA vacation "residence".  Put up a phalanx of mail slots, *boom*, PA CCW mill in operation.

[capt14k 2,052]

IMO.....NJSP do not want it along with many local depts.

Not the Troopers I know.

 

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[JohnnyB 4,325]

Oh boy, here's my new side hustle - purchase 10 acres in PA, subdivide each acre into 100 parcels and lease each one out at $100 / year to a NJ resident as their PA vacation "residence".  Put up a phalanx of mail slots, *boom*, PA CCW mill in operation.

Sign me up for the first parcel!

[JohnGalt 9]

Oh boy, here's my new side hustle - purchase 10 acres in PA, subdivide each acre into 100 parcels and lease each one out at $100 / year to a NJ resident as their PA vacation "residence". Put up a phalanx of mail slots, *boom*, PA CCW mill in operation.

Crazy thing is, if you make it out in the woods or the country I'd actually visit my parcel and camp there. If so sign me up.

 

 

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[Newtonian 453]

Not the Troopers I know.

 

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I obviously have not conducted a scientific survey on this topic but IMO support for the 2nd Amendment among USA LEO is wildly over-estimated by the gun lobbies, especially in outlier states like this festering swamp. There would be more traction for the right to keep and bear, especially in my county, if the Big Daddies (including judges) were for it. Cops get promoted, in part, for arresting people. 'Nuff said.

[capt14k 2,052]

I obviously have not conducted a scientific survey on this topic but IMO support for the 2nd Amendment among USA LEO is wildly over-estimated by the gun lobbies, especially in outlier states like this festering swamp. There would be more traction for the right to keep and bear, especially in my county, if the Big Daddies (including judges) were for it. Cops get promoted, in part, for arresting people. 'Nuff said.

I just said the Troopers I know are Pro 2A. Doesn't mean they all are. Especially the younger guys. The Troopers I know can't wait to retire. The troopers I know who have retired are so happy to be out. The local ones I know are 50/50 for and against gun control.

 

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[Newtonian 453]

I just said the Troopers I know are Pro 2A. Doesn't mean they all are. Especially the younger guys. The Troopers I know can't wait to retire. The troopers I know who have retired are so happy to be out. The local ones I know are 50/50 for and against gun control.

 

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Again, anecdotal but I used to coach soccer with two troopers, one married to a trooper whom both of us know, and one officer in the prosecutor's office here in town. Plus we know a fairly prominent, ultra-"conservative" retired judge. The vibe I got from these people was not positive with regard to the 2nd Amendment. We never explicitly discussed the matter though. OTOH the officer who handles permits here seems to be pro, and the fellow who owns my favorite shop, a retired detective, also is pro from all indications. However I wouldn't brag to either one if the situation arose where I felt it necessary to pack some protection during a long hike during bear season. 

[xXxplosive 824]

Right.........most LE that I know say they are Pro 2A but amongst their peers, not really......only a few. NJSP have historically in many respects run NJ for decades and for that matter have never been pro anything related to firearms as a  whole.....OMO.

[HBecwithFn7 296]

IME, the closer one gets to  major urban areas (e.g. cities like Newark, Camden, Trenton, etc.),  the more "anti" the sentiment among the LE "rank & file."  This, in re: risk while working those urban areas, and the need to keep "control" and ensure safer communities. Additionally, one might find more "anti" sentiment among the "Sr. management" of most LEAs (Chief, Sheriff, etc.)... at least publicly, as that would be the "politically correct" stance against crime and criminals, in general.  Again, there are always exceptions, but this has been my overall experience.  We have similar issues here in FL as well. Several of the Sheriffs of larger counties that contain major cities (Hillsborough (Tampa),  Dade (Miami), Orange (Orlando), Pinellas (St. Petersburg)) are all pretty much anti-2A, as is most of the "Florida Sheriffs Association." But some FL Sheriffs are very much pro-2A (Brevard County, Pasco County), and others.  It just depends.

[xXxplosive 824]

How can you compare Florida to New Jersey...........please. I don't live near any of those towns you mention and for sure my local PD is not pro 2A by any means. Look what they put you through here just to get a legal permit to purchase.

[bhunted 887]

Right.........most LE that I know say they are Pro 2A but amongst their peers, not really......only a few. NJSP have historically in many respects run NJ for decades and for that matter have never been pro anything related to firearms as a whole.....OMO.

The NJSP officer that runs the firearms section in Trenton is very much pro gun. Great guy! So kind of hard to make a blanket statement. In most cases brass and above, you may have less pro2a.... the closer they are to the top, the more of a politician they become.

 

 

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[HBecwithFn7 296]

The NJSP officer that runs the firearms section in Trenton is very much pro gun. Great guy! So kind of hard to make a blanket statement. In most cases brass and above, you may have less pro2a.... the closer they are to the top, the more of a politician they become.

 

Precisely.

[HBecwithFn7 296]

How can you compare Florida to New Jersey...........please.

 

Actually, it's very easy to compare FL to NJ as many if not most of the legislators and LE brass that are "anti" moved down here *from* NY/NJ... as did most of their constituents!

 

I don't live near any of those towns you mention and for sure my local PD is not pro 2A by any means. Look what they put you through here just to get a legal permit to purchase.

 

Again, I'm not saying that it's "cast in stone," but it is my experience. And, again, as far as a given town is concerned, it's really up to the CLEO, and many of them want to be on the "politically correct" side of this... which, to them, means an "anti" position.  That said, the closer you get to "major urban areas" (cities, surrounding suburbs, etc.), the higher the anti sentiment. Further away (Warren, Hunterdon, Sussex, Somerset, part of Morris Counties) seem to be more on the Pro-2A side.  I lived in Warren County, and my former CLEO was very pro-2A.   All paperwork was returned within 2-3 calendar weeks.