APEX M&P Barrels with aftermarket springs/guiderods

[Jayce 0]

I searched through the forum and couldn't find an answer to this question. Please direct me if it has been addressed.

Right now I'm shooting an M&P9 4.25" & 5". There's WC combat barrel in the FS (bought it the day of the APEX release *slaps self*) and the stock barrel with a single dimple. 

I've run SSS guide rods and ISMI springs and they both run fine. But I'm considering plugging in APEX barrels into both.

Has anyone run aftermarket springs/guiderods in conjunction with the APEX barrels? The reason I ask is that the APEX barrels I know were designed to work with the stock spring. I just don't want to spend the money on a non-starter.

Thanks!

 

[Vlad G 345]

Why would you not run the stock spring? 

 

I would suggest calling Apex and asking. I suspect what they actually want is for you run stock spring STRENGTH, to ensure that it has enough energy to return into battery given their tighter fit. My guess would be that if you run a 15lb spring on the aftermarket guide rod you would be fine, but call them and ask them 

[Jayce 0]

I actually like the feel of the ISMI 17 spring and already have a non-captured rod for it. I'd also like the option. 

I can call, but I wanted to go this route first if anyone has actually tried it.

[Sig226GuyNJ 128]

I run a gunsmith fit Apex barrel in my 9 pro. I also have an Apex sear spring, and competition striker spring. However, I'm running the stock recoil spring assembly. You may want to head over to Smith and Wesson's forum and ask the question as there are a lot of Apex barrel users over there.

[Jayce 0]

I run a gunsmith fit Apex barrel in my 9 pro. I also have an Apex sear spring, and competition striker spring. However, I'm running the stock recoil spring assembly. You may want to head over to Smith and Wesson's forum and ask the question as there are a lot of Apex barrel users over there.

Yeah, the stock spring runs fine in the 5" barrel. I was going to go with the semi-drop in. 

 

I'd go to the S&W forums but I've found more contradictions and unwarranted/off-subject advice than an actual answer.

[Sig226GuyNJ 128]

Yeah, the stock spring runs fine in the 5" barrel. I was going to go with the semi-drop in. 

 

I'd go to the S&W forums but I've found more contradictions and unwarranted/off-subject advice than an actual answer.

There's nothing wrong with the semi drop in either. You'll never know the difference in accuracy between the two unless you ransom rest it. Why do you want to go with a heavier spring?

[Jayce 0]

I run a 17lbs in my 4.25" and I've found that, for me, feels the best. To me the sights get back quicker.

[Sig226GuyNJ 128]

I run a 17lbs in my 4.25" and I've found that, for me, feels the best. To me the sights get back quicker.

Wouldn't a heavier than stock recoil spring cause the sights to get back a bit slower? I was under the belief that a heavier recoil spring was used for hotter loads, or to lengthen the barrels lock up time.

[Jayce 0]

Wouldn't a heavier than stock recoil spring cause the sights to get back a bit slower? I was under the belief that a heavier recoil spring was used for hotter loads, or to lengthen the barrels lock up time.

I'm not sure about all that. But I found that going with the 17lbs, to me, feels right and better than stock.

[Sig226GuyNJ 128]

I'm not sure about all that. But I found that going with the 17lbs, to me, feels right and better than stock.

I think, key word think as I'm not 100% educated on the topic either, but I think what you are experiencing is a lighter "feel" to the recoil. Since the slide is moving slower, the felt recoil is reduced. But this also means the front sight is coming back on target a tad bit slower. Someone correct me if I'm wrong please. Anyway, you're more than welcome to join me at Central Jersey one weekend if you want to shoot my gun and see if the recoil is something you wouldn't mind. I find it to be a very soft shooter.

[Jayce 0]

I think, key word think as I'm not 100% educated on the topic either, but I think what you are experiencing is a lighter "feel" to the recoil. Since the slide is moving slower, the felt recoil is reduced. But this also means the front sight is coming back on target a tad bit slower. Someone correct me if I'm wrong please. Anyway, you're more than welcome to join me at Central Jersey one weekend if you want to shoot my gun and see if the recoil is something you wouldn't mind. I find it to be a very soft shooter.

I have a 5" pro in 9mm and that shoots very flat with the stock spring. But the topic was opened up to see if it was possible to run it. 

[Vlad G 345]

Recoil springs effect on timing is a bit odd. 

 

Lighter springs can actually take LONGER to cycle the gun, and heavier springs will cycle it faster.   A weaker spring will compress and move the slide back quicker, but it will take longer to come back into battery, pick up the new round slower, and finish the entire cycle behind the stronger spring. Some of this will vary from gun to gun, and the felt recoil changes is also different from gun to gun. 

 

Usually if you muck with springs, expect the behavior to change as you change loads as well. There are really 3 phases to the operation, depending how you count. There is the unlock/eject portion, the feed phase, and the lock phase. The first part could work with NO spring except you might unlock early, and then entire force of the recoil will be felt at the end of the cycle as the slide smacks into the frame. With very heavy spring, just heavy enough to still cycle, the slide would only move as far back as needed to eject and pick up the next round and all that energy that got stored into the spring (instead of losing some to the slide smacking into the frame) is going to smack back forward and drive the gun forward, hard.

 

Both cases can have a negative effect on the "felt recoil'. In the first case you end up with solid smack into your hand and the muzzle pointing to the sky, in the second case the slide coming back into battery with a LOT of speed is going to drive the muzzle down to hard. Obviously the right answer is somewhere in between, and it will depend on your ammo, on your preferred recoil impulse, etc.  

 

Edited to add: in the Apex barrel case, the going back into battery part requires quite a bit of energy to be left in the spring, which is why the recommend the factory spring. 

[Barms 98]

What's so great about Apex barrel. (I have their trigger )

[Vlad G 345]

What's so great about Apex barrel. (I have their trigger )

 

M&P barrels, well the entire gun design, is known for unlocking a bit too early, which can lead to poor accuracy. It is accurate enough, but anyone looking for competition grade accuracy notices that most M&P 9's, specially the older ones, really lag behind other designs. The Apex barrel is designed to remain in lock longer and Apex and a number of shooter report excellent results.

[Barms 98]

Wow. Thanks