Raven 4 Posted December 16, 2016 I've had the upper receiver for a while now but the muzzle brake has to be welded in order to proceed with the lower. I've looked at the process countless times again and i know it's not that hard, given one has the tools which i do not as i lack a welding device. Where in north jersey (sussex county) can you get your muzzle brake welded for a decent price ? Or rent a welding device ? 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Raven 4 Posted December 16, 2016 I was planning on doing a pin and weld, simple hole in the muzzle, slightly into the treads, drop in pin and weld the top. As shown here. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mikeyjones 88 Posted December 16, 2016 I've had the upper receiver for a while now but the muzzle brake has to be welded in order to proceed with the lower. I've looked at the process countless times again and i know it's not that hard, given one has the tools which i do not as i lack a welding device. Where in north jersey (sussex county) can you get your muzzle brake welded for a decent price ? Or rent a welding device ? Pretty simple to do yourself, if you have the right tools. Otherwise, most stores in the area will charge ~$50 to do it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnnyB 4,324 Posted December 16, 2016 I love an excuse to buy a new tool. Harbor Freight has a 90Amp mig wire feed A/C welder that runs on 110VAC. It is $109 but frequently goes on sale for $89. It can also be converted to be a DC welder, (much less splatter) for about $30 more. After getting ripped off for $89 for a shit job on my last upper. I plan to buy the welder and do it myself from now on! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SmittyMHS 603 Posted December 17, 2016 As long as the barrel is over 16" it only needs to be pinned. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Raven 4 Posted December 17, 2016 As long as the barrel is over 16" it only needs to be pinned. It's a 16" barrel with a competition muzzle brake, would that qualify for just pinning ? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SmittyMHS 603 Posted December 17, 2016 yup! I would stake it too. Just so it can't back out. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bhunted 887 Posted December 17, 2016 I love an excuse to buy a new tool. Harbor Freight has a 90Amp mig wire feed A/C welder that runs on 110VAC. It is $109 but frequently goes on sale for $89. It can also be converted to be a DC welder, (much less splatter) for about $30 more. After getting ripped off for $89 for a shit job on my last upper. I plan to buy the welder and do it myself from now on! Bought the same one. Still learning. Practicing on an old brake. Ya def need a drill press unless its pre drilled. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
fatty 241 Posted December 17, 2016 Ive got a mig welder my grandfather gave me. Need to get it out and start practicing too. Good thing i kept all the brake rotors i swapped last spring Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mikeyjones 88 Posted December 17, 2016 As long as the barrel is over 16" it only needs to be pinned. How do you define pinned? It has to be permanently attached. NJ never defined what's permanent, but most people follow what the federal guidelines laid out to make barrels < 16" compliant with federal NFA restrictions. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Heavyopp 167 Posted December 17, 2016 Nj doesn't define pinned -- If you have a barrel 16" or over then you only need to comply with NJ law not federal Short barrel rifle law Since NJ does not define what a pinned muzzle brake is simply a press fit pinning would qualify as "pinned" Drill through the muzzle brake off the barrel -- Drill slow on a drill press -- use plenty of oil and you should not bugger up the threads at all -- Size your hole according to whatever pin size you are using Then mount brake on barrel -- time it properly Then drill a small indentation into the barrel threads, enough to destroy the threads if brake is removed is all that is needed At this point all you need is very tight fitting pin -- "Press fit" means you need a press or a hammer to install the pin -- so tight that it never comes out I personally weld my pins -- I'm lucky enough to own a miller Dynasty 280DX welder -- Tig welding a stainless steel pin to a brake is simple -- no filler wire, just leave the pin a little long and melt the pin into the brake -- some cold blue and you're done Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DonG 0 Posted December 17, 2016 Ive done all of my builds myself with the harbor freight 90 amp wire feed.. If you are mechanically inclined, and don't mind practicing a little its not too hard.. I thought it was harder to drill the holes in my battlecomps.. The higher quality comps are hardened, and you need to use high quality drill bits. I went thru a few cobalt bits on each comp... buy a few bits oil as you cut,and go slow. Good luck.. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
T Bill 649 Posted December 17, 2016 Nj doesn't define pinned -- If you have a barrel 16" or over then you only need to comply with NJ law not federal Short barrel rifle law Since NJ does not define what a pinned muzzle brake is simply a press fit pinning would qualify as "pinned" Drill through the muzzle brake off the barrel -- Drill slow on a drill press -- use plenty of oil and you should not bugger up the threads at all -- Size your hole according to whatever pin size you are using Then mount brake on barrel -- time it properly Then drill a small indentation into the barrel threads, enough to destroy the threads if brake is removed is all that is needed At this point all you need is very tight fitting pin -- "Press fit" means you need a press or a hammer to install the pin -- so tight that it never comes out I personally weld my pins -- I'm lucky enough to own a miller Dynasty 280DX welder -- Tig welding a stainless steel pin to a brake is simple -- no filler wire, just leave the pin a little long and melt the pin into the brake -- some cold blue and you're done Same here just hit it with the mig, grind in down, cover with cold blue, magic marker, or paint. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rob0115 1,105 Posted December 17, 2016 Nj doesn't define pinned -- If you have a barrel 16" or over then you only need to comply with NJ law not federal Short barrel rifle law Since NJ does not define what a pinned muzzle brake is simply a press fit pinning would qualify as "pinned" Drill through the muzzle brake off the barrel -- Drill slow on a drill press -- use plenty of oil and you should not bugger up the threads at all -- Size your hole according to whatever pin size you are using Then mount brake on barrel -- time it properly Then drill a small indentation into the barrel threads, enough to destroy the threads if brake is removed is all that is needed At this point all you need is very tight fitting pin -- "Press fit" means you need a press or a hammer to install the pin -- so tight that it never comes out I personally weld my pins -- I'm lucky enough to own a miller Dynasty 280DX welder -- Tig welding a stainless steel pin to a brake is simple -- no filler wire, just leave the pin a little long and melt the pin into the brake -- some cold blue and you're done How many amps on the TIG? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Heavyopp 167 Posted December 17, 2016 How many amps on the TIG?The dynasty has a max amp output of 280 amps ac or dc To weld a pin I have the machine set at 75 amps dc but don't use full pedal. Doesn't take much to melt a .062 stainless pin into a muzzle brake -- I do use the same .062 diameter pins that I use for wet tumbling I think I'm currently set up with a 3/32 lanthanated tungsten with pure argon shielding gas Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Raven 4 Posted December 18, 2016 I was thinking about buying a welder but i honestly never use it enough to justify the cost. Is there anywhere in northern Jersey i could get it pin welded for a decent price ? 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Slab Sides 20 Posted December 18, 2016 I dont get grinding/blending the weld. No visual proof do you have it was pinned so someone would have to put a wrench on it. I left my tack weld as-is. Its on the bottom anyway. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rob0115 1,105 Posted December 18, 2016 The dynasty has a max amp output of 280 amps ac or dc To weld a pin I have the machine set at 75 amps dc but don't use full pedal. Doesn't take much to melt a .062 stainless pin into a muzzle brake -- I do use the same .062 diameter pins that I use for wet tumbling I think I'm currently set up with a 3/32 lanthanated tungsten with pure argon shielding gas No filler rod, just start it up and hit the pin? Are you using hi frequency start on your arc? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Heavyopp 167 Posted December 18, 2016 I dont get grinding/blending the weld. No visual proof do you have it was pinned so someone would have to put a wrench on it. I left my tack weld as-is. Its on the bottom anyway. Agreed No filler rod, just start it up and hit the pin? Are you using hi frequency start on your arc? Yes hi frequency start -- I leave my pin just a little long so the pin becomes the filler rod -- just melt it all together Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rob0115 1,105 Posted December 18, 2016 Agreed Yes hi frequency start -- I leave my pin just a little long so the pin becomes the filler rod -- just melt it all together Thanks. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sota 1,191 Posted December 18, 2016 I debate cold bluing mine. but then my welding skills are sufficiently poor that even if I did I suspect you'd still know it's been pinned and welded. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
remixer 1,645 Posted December 19, 2016 I dont get grinding/blending the weld. No visual proof do you have it was pinned so someone would have to put a wrench on it. I left my tack weld as-is. Its on the bottom anyway. I dont think anyone had ever tried to put a wrench on it for legality. Not the state atleast. in regards to blending and grinding.. It depends, Even when we grind we leave a slight imperfection to prove to the customer we actually did the work Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
vladtepes 1,060 Posted December 25, 2016 NJ does not define permanently attached.. they say you can NOT have a threaded barrel.. the only way to accomplish this is to make the muzzle device part of the barrel.. once the muzzle device is part of the barrel then the barrel is no longer threaded... the only standard we have for making a muzzle device part of the barrel is the ATF guidelines.. therefore IMO you should follow this standard in NJ when attaching a muzzle device.. doing any less could IMO leave you with could be considered a threaded barrel.. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Shane45 807 Posted December 25, 2016 Consider if a pin was not acceptable all your pinned stocks wouldn't be legal either. 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
vladtepes 1,060 Posted December 26, 2016 Consider if a pin was not acceptable all your pinned stocks wouldn't be legal either. while that is a fair point.. the wording for stock is somewhat different as it defines the action that is forbidden.. "folding or telescoping stock"... this is to say that the stock can not fold or collapse in on itself.. a pin stops that action from happening.. a threaded barrel is still a threaded barrel with a pin in it.. or two.. or five.. the only benchmark we have to show when a threaded barrel stops being threaded.. is when something is put over those threads and attached in such a way that it negates the threading.. it is logical to refer to the ATF standard for that.. it IS a fair argument that NJ is under no obligation to follow the ATF standard.. but if you follow that logic it is equally fair to say NJ does not have to honor a barrel that is simply pinned.. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PK90 3,570 Posted December 26, 2016 Aren't Stag Arms ban-compliant rifles only pinned? It's been awhile since I've seen one. Sent from an undisclosed location Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
vladtepes 1,060 Posted December 26, 2016 either way I think it is a fair argument.. but at the end of the day you have to at least consider this... NJ says you absolutely can not have a threaded barrel on an AR.. they then go on to fail to define any means to get around this by default that leaves you with a barrel with no threads.. that is the first safe bet per NJ law.. the second option is to add a compliant brake and make it part of the barrel.. since NJ does not offer a solution as to how to do this.. leaning on the ATF standard is IMO the only reasonable route.. by NJ standard.. there is NO difference between a simple pin, pin and weld, OR even just loctite.. since NJ does not define a solution.. it is up to the end user to decide.. and ultimately willing to argue if came down to it.. pin and weld has a distinct advantage.. the ATF recognizes it as a legitimate means to permanently join a muzzle device to a barrel.. that is why most people go that way... you are left with a solid argument.. as ridiculous as this statement is.. its true.. pin (no weld).. OR loctite.. are equal in the literal wording for NJ.. no solution offered.. so none can be assumed satisfactory.. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sota 1,191 Posted December 26, 2016 in other words, NJ sucks, they hate you, and will take every opportunity to screw gun owners because they hate guns too, and think the only ones that should have them are the Anointed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Shane45 807 Posted December 27, 2016 Vlad, that's exactly the point. NJ seems to accept a pin as a permanent solution to a stock, therefore they would have to accept it as permanent for a barrel. I don't find it logical to adapt NFA law that is NOT based around what is a permanent connection of a barrel and muzzle device, 2 separate items, their pursuit (ATF) is what makes it a single item, a barrel over 16". Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
vladtepes 1,060 Posted December 27, 2016 Vlad, that's exactly the point. NJ seems to accept a pin as a permanent solution to a stock, therefore they would have to accept it as permanent for a barrel. I don't find it logical to adapt NFA law that is NOT based around what is a permanent connection of a barrel and muzzle device, 2 separate items, their pursuit (ATF) is what makes it a single item, a barrel over 16". the acceptance of it for the stock has not a thing to do with a muzzle device... does a barrel with a pinned device still have threads? of course it does.. LOL does a barrel with a pinned and welded device still have threads? absolutely.. is either scenario likely to end up in court? probably not.. my preference is to just follow the only standard that is out there.. since NJ opts not to provide one.. again.. since NJ does not define a standard.. you could say JB weld is "adequate"... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites