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HoosierDog

Hello! Moving to NJ from IN

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Hi everyone. I'll be moving from Indiana to New Jersey in March (2017) and wanted to say hello. With the dramatic change in the laws from my home state to NJ, I thought I'd better get a jump on joining a knowledgeable group and getting my stock squared away. Great to see this forum, a lot of good information on here.

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That's funny, we were recently in NJ and someone said the same thing, so I guess I better explain for anyone else.... (I should have thought of that before choosing my screen name.)

 

Here in Indiana, any Indiana resident is known as Hoosier. In practice it applies more to Indiana natives and long term residents, maybe not so much to someone who is here temporarily and doesn't plan to stay. Indiana University adopted the moniker for their team name, not the other way around. So a Hoosier might even go to Purdue and be a Boilermaker. I've even heard tell of Hoosier Wildcats, although I think that's more of a hypothesis. I guess that's confusing if you don't grow up with it.

 

I had to consult wikipedia to read this "Residents of New Jersey are most commonly referred to as "New Jerseyans" or, less commonly, as "New Jerseyites"."

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...

 

I had to consult wikipedia to read this "Residents of New Jersey are most commonly referred to as "New Jerseyans" or, less commonly, as "New Jerseyites"."

 

"Assholes" is also used frequently.  I consider it a term of endearment.

 

Welcome!

 

If you have any questions on "New Jerseyan" firearm law, ludicrous as it is, please ask away.

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uh oh.... is that for real, or a personal preference?

It's a joke. We recently had a heated debate on here about them. There are some guys with some serious knowledge on here and even more ball busters. Don't get upset if someone calls you a mean name because either they are making a joke or not worth the finger stress to type back

 

this signature exceeds the 15 character capacity count

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I just got a little nervous because I'm picking up a new mini-14, and I didn't want to suddenly find out that the garand-style mechanics are also evil. I'm already twitchy about it having a flash hider. It should be ok, as far as I can figure, since that's the only stipulated feature on it. 

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I just got a little nervous because I'm picking up a new mini-14, and I didn't want to suddenly find out that the garand-style mechanics are also evil. I'm already twitchy about it having a flash hider. It should be ok, as far as I can figure, since that's the only stipulated feature on it.

 

Flash hider or surpressor is okay as long as it is the only evil feature. No pistol grip, folding or telescopic stock, or bayonet lug. If you have a threaded muzzle for that Mini 14 you need to have it welded.

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oh snap, yes it's a threaded barrel with a flash hider... I thought since the NJ law listed the flash suppressor or threaded barrel on the same line, they counted as one item.

 

 

So if there is a flash suppressor on the threaded barrel, it needs to be welded?

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oh snap, yes it's a threaded barrel with a flash hider... I thought since the NJ law listed the flash suppressor or threaded barrel on the same line, they counted as one item.

 

 

So if there is a flash suppressor on the threaded barrel, it needs to be welded?

 

No you're ok - just make sure there's no bayonet lug.  Also - magazine capacity for semi auto pistols/rifles in NJ is 15.

 

M1A, Mini 14, etc are all fine without having a pinned muzzle brake/comp as long as they're the non-pistol grip style and don't have a bayonet lug

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Well I thought I'd figured this all out, and I didn't want to bug you with all the same questions you must get a dozen times a day.... but now I think I better vet this with you all.... 

 

Here's what I am thinking I will bring with me....

 

Glock pistols, stock - all magazines are 15 rounds or less.

Revolvers - I didn't see any restrictions on any revolvers.

Pump shotguns - they all have 6 round tubes or less (6 + 1 in the chamber). I didn't see anything about pump shotguns.

 

Rifles - Yeah, here's where things got uncomfortable. After reading a bajilion threads on this, I decided to only take things that I don't have to modify, and I'm not bringing anything with AR or AK stamped on the receiver. So the only semi-auto rifle I'm only going to bring is a mini-14 model 5819, which has a threaded barrel with flash hider.

        - no collapsible or folding stock

        - no pistol grip

        - no bayonet mount

        - no grenade mount

        - since flash hider and threaded barrel were on one line, I thought this meant that both count as only one item(?) Are we 100% certain this doesn't have to be welded? 100%?

 

I am still a bit confused about the mini-14 magazine situation. I know I can't have anything that holds more than 15 rounds. So I could bring 5-round and 10-round magazines, but I am wondering how to convert the original 20-round mags. The law seems a touch vague on that subject. From what I've read, epoxy makes it permanent, but a pin doesn't? Is this a settled issue, or is there still debate? I'd rather avoid issues that are not settled. It's not worth spending years in prison for a 20-round mag with a block and epoxy if this is not a settled issue.

 

My last problem is the hollow point ammo. I've read the story about the guy who was moving (reportedly) and got 7 years, and then was finally pardoned... yeah, I don't need that to be me. I have read to ship the ammo to myself via UPS, from my old address to my new NJ address, as I leave Indiana. I'm a little vague on this... some people talk about how they can't get legit online stores to ship them ammo to NJ, or not without their special NJ permission card, but apparently I'm allowed to send myself ORD via UPS without any NJ card? I don't want to "circumvent" the law or have to hope I don't get caught. If this is totally legit, legal and everyone does it all the time, then I guess this is my solution, but I'd love some clarification on this. I've never had to ship ammo anywhere, let alone to myself, so this feels really weird.

 

I think that's it. I felt like I did a lot of research but there is already a difference of opinion in my introduction thread. I didn't want to ask the same things others have asked, but now I'm a bit worried. Like I told them at the gun store the other day, I've never needed a gun lawyer before and don't want to start now.

 

Thanks for all your help. 

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My last problem is the hollow point ammo. I've read the story about the guy who was moving (reportedly) and got 7 years, and then was finally pardoned... yeah, I don't need that to be me. I have read to ship the ammo to myself via UPS, from my old address to my new NJ address, as I leave Indiana. I'm a little vague on this... some people talk about how they can't get legit online stores to ship them ammo to NJ, or not without their special NJ permission card, but apparently I'm allowed to send myself ORD via UPS without any NJ card? I don't want to "circumvent" the law or have to hope I don't get caught. If this is totally legit, legal and everyone does it all the time, then I guess this is my solution, but I'd love some clarification on this. I've never had to ship ammo anywhere, let alone to myself, so this feels really weird.

 

I think that's it. I felt like I did a lot of research but there is already a difference of opinion in my introduction thread. I didn't want to ask the same things others have asked, but now I'm a bit worried. Like I told them at the gun store the other day, I've never needed a gun lawyer before and don't want to start now.

 

Thanks for all your help. 

 

You probably don't need a gun lawyer, but you might want to invest in a copy of Evan Nappen's book: http://www.evannappen.com/gun-law-books.html

 

Here's the NJSP's current policy on hollowpoints: http://www.njsp.org/firearms/transport-hollowpoint.shtml

 

Btw, welcome!  :hi:

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WELCOME!!!!!!!!!!

Well I thought I'd figured this all out, and I didn't want to bug you with all the same questions you must get a dozen times a day.... but now I think I better vet this with you all.... 

 

Here's what I am thinking I will bring with me....

 

Glock pistols, stock - all magazines are 15 rounds or less. OK

Revolvers - I didn't see any restrictions on any revolvers. OK - all revolvers are legal

Pump shotguns - they all have 6 round tubes or less (6 + 1 in the chamber). I didn't see anything about pump shotguns.  OK - no capacity limit on pump shotguns, KSGs with their 14 round capacity are legal

 

Rifles - Yeah, here's where things got uncomfortable. After reading a bajilion threads on this, I decided to only take things that I don't have to modify, and I'm not bringing anything with AR or AK stamped on the receiver. So the only semi-auto rifle I'm only going to bring is a mini-14 model 5819, which has a threaded barrel with flash hider.  That version is legal as is

        - no collapsible or folding stock

        - no pistol grip

        - no bayonet mount

        - no grenade mount

        - since flash hider and threaded barrel were on one line, I thought this meant that both count as only one item(?) Are we 100% certain this doesn't have to be welded? 100%?

 

I am still a bit confused about the mini-14 magazine situation. I know I can't have anything that holds more than 15 rounds. So I could bring 5-round and 10-round magazines, but I am wondering how to convert the original 20-round mags. The law seems a touch vague on that subject. From what I've read, epoxy makes it permanent, but a pin doesn't? Is this a settled issue, or is there still debate? I'd rather avoid issues that are not settled. It's not worth spending years in prison for a 20-round mag with a block and epoxy if this is not a settled issue. The statute (under 2C or 2A - which is black letter law) says magazines that are blocked are no longer "Large Capacity Magazines", but does not specify how they need to be blocked. The Administrative Code (under Title 13 - which is more or less the Attorney General's interpretation of the law) says the mags must be "permanently" blocked, but does not specify what is considered "permanent". Ultimately it would be up to a judge to decide if a magazine is blocked legally or not. That said, I have never heard of someone being charged with having a "LCM" that was blocked in a insufficient manner.

 

My last problem is the hollow point ammo. I've read the story about the guy who was moving (reportedly) and got 7 years, and then was finally pardoned... yeah, I don't need that to be me. I have read to ship the ammo to myself via UPS, from my old address to my new NJ address, as I leave Indiana. I'm a little vague on this... some people talk about how they can't get legit online stores to ship them ammo to NJ, or not without their special NJ permission card, but apparently I'm allowed to send myself ORD via UPS without any NJ card? I don't want to "circumvent" the law or have to hope I don't get caught. If this is totally legit, legal and everyone does it all the time, then I guess this is my solution, but I'd love some clarification on this. I've never had to ship ammo anywhere, let alone to myself, so this feels really weird. It is legal to purchase HP ammo and transport it to your house. The only way the cops would know you didn't just purchase the HP ammo would be if you tell them so. Nothing in NJ law would prohibit you from buying a boat load of HP ammo from your buddy in Indiana (paying cash of coarse, and not having a receipt) and then driving to your new home in NJ. Think about how you answer questions, and better yet, don't give the cops a reason to need to ask you about ammo - out of sight out of mind.

 

I think that's it. I felt like I did a lot of research but there is already a difference of opinion in my introduction thread. I didn't want to ask the same things others have asked, but now I'm a bit worried. Like I told them at the gun store the other day, I've never needed a gun lawyer before and don't want to start now.

 

Thanks for all your help. 

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Thanks everyone, and oakridgefirearms, that is very helpful. The thing I noticed about the HP ammo is that I'm going to be moving, with a ton of possessions, in a truck stacked with boxes and with big ass dogs, it might even say U-Haul on the side, it's going to be pretty obvious that I'm not coming from a shooting range. Why would an officer want to search all my stuff, even if I got pulled over for some reason? I have no idea. But if they did, rather than risk running afoul, is it perfectly legal and totally normal to ship ammo to yourself via UPS? And does it matter that when it reaches my new home in NJ, I don't have one of those ammo-purchasing ID cards? If all of that is completely above board, it sounds like my best solution. I could ship it to myself, or have a friend or family member ship it to me once I get settled... as long as that is all perfectly legal. The NJ State Police pages seem very quiet on this solution.

 

I haven't decided on the 15/20 round mags. I noticed on Charlie Coopers website that NJ is not one of the states they won't ship 15/20 or 15/30 mags to, so that makes me think this issue has been settled to some degree... hopefully I'm not just selectively noticing evidence that supports what I hope to be true. I'll be happy to hear from others and how they arrived at their opinion on the topic.

 

You guys rock. Thanks.

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Thanks everyone, and oakridgefirearms, that is very helpful. The thing I noticed about the HP ammo is that I'm going to be moving, with a ton of possessions, in a truck stacked with boxes and with big ass dogs, it might even say U-Haul on the side, it's going to be pretty obvious that I'm not coming from a shooting range. Why would an officer want to search all my stuff, even if I got pulled over for some reason? I have no idea. But if they did, rather than risk running afoul, is it perfectly legal and totally normal to ship ammo to yourself via UPS? And does it matter that when it reaches my new home in NJ, I don't have one of those ammo-purchasing ID cards? If all of that is completely above board, it sounds like my best solution. I could ship it to myself, or have a friend or family member ship it to me once I get settled... as long as that is all perfectly legal. The NJ State Police pages seem very quiet on this solution.

 

I haven't decided on the 15/20 round mags. I noticed on Charlie Coopers website that NJ is not one of the states they won't ship 15/20 or 15/30 mags to, so that makes me think this issue has been settled to some degree... hopefully I'm not just selectively noticing evidence that supports what I hope to be true. I'll be happy to hear from others and how they arrived at their opinion on the topic.

 

You guys rock. Thanks.

It's illegal to take possession of handgun ammo, within the confines of NJ, without having an NJ FPID card, NJ PPP,  a valid carry permit or LEO ID (except for small amounts at a range) . Whether shipping ammo to yourself would be considered "taking possession", I don't know.

 

You do not need to be coming from a range to bring HP ammo to your house, you can also bring it from a place of purchase to your house. As for searching your moving truck, the answer to the question: can I search you vehicle? would always be NO, no matter what state I was in and no matter what is in the vehicle. You have 5th amendment rights to politely decline that invitation.

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I don't see much concern in a LEO asking to search your Uhaul. Why would they?

 

I imagine you're talking about Brian Aitken when you mention the guy convicted of moving hollowpoint ammo. He was at his mother's house and made a comment about hurting himself (suicide?), left, his mother called the police, he returned to his mother's house knowing the police were there, gave a consent search of his car, handgun, high capacity magazines and hollowpoints were found in the car. Not supporting the law but he shouldn't have had the gun in his car anyway. He gave at least two explanations why he had the gun in the car (he was screwed with the magazines anyway).

 

So if you do something stupid like him I wouldn't worry about a LEO asking to search your truck.

 

If you look like a gangbanger and the truck cab smells like weed you will probably be scrutinized.

 

Don't allow a consent search and don't give a LEO probable cause to get a warrant and you should be fine.

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OP, is it too late to move to PA?

That is a serious question. After reading this thread, it is depressing living in NJ. I need to get out.

 

OP you are coming from one of the best states in America for firearms laws and moving to The People's Republik of NJ, possibly the worst state. There are plenty of places in PA to move to and commute to work in NY or NJ.

 

Also OP I buy from Charlie Coppers all the time. Just choose the epoxy option. They are great to deal with.

 

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk

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Welcome to NJ.

 

To add on to what others have said you are not required to tell a LEO that you have guns/ammo in your car. Just politely decline to answer (if they ask) and that does not give them probably cause to search your vehicle.

 

If you want to be paranoid about it (which can be a good thing in NJ although lots of people make fun of this) stop at a range in PA before crossing the Delaware. Snap a selfie at the range (maybe get a receipt for something) and now will be legally transporting your stuff from a range to your home (traveling as directly as possible).

 

Good luck and again welcome.

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OP, is it too late to move to PA?

It's really a matter of practicality. This might upset some people who might be much more invested in their arsenal than I am, but if we're making this decision solely based on firearms, I'm just not so invested in my shooting that I could justify asking my wife to commute an extra hour each way, 5 days a week, 52 weeks a year, in rain, snow, ice, traffic, so that the rifle in my safe can carry additional rounds per magazine. I don't know that I would do that to myself, let alone to my wife who does not shoot. And those extra rounds are the only banned item that I personally care much about. (Well, that and concealed carry, which I know there will be zero chance of any kind of carry for me in NJ.)

 

Yes, I absolutely support law-abiding citizens' rights to have access to things that I personally don't need. Yes, I agree these laws seem onerous and misguided while probably having zero impact on crime. And if I can help get rid of these laws through my voice and my vote, I will. But for the sake of immediate practicality, I don't own a single bayonet, nor do I want one. I don't own a grenade launcher, nor do I want one. I like traditional stocks just fine. I never even adjust my collapsible stocks. So is it worth years and years of lost time in a commute from PA to eastern NJ? Not to me, not just for the sake of high cap mags. If I was heavily invested in shooting, competitions, run and gun, etc, then it'd be a tougher choice. I will definitely miss my ability to carry, but since most of our working and social life will be taking place in NJ and NYC, I don't think a PA permit to carry would help me much.

 

There are other factors that have us looking toward PA, like house prices, property taxes and ease of finding a 3 car garage... but even then, it will be a tough sell to add an hour commute each way.

 

where are you moving to? NJ is a small state, but it has friendly 2A and UN friendly 2A zones...

Somewhere south or east of Parsippany, probably Morris / Morristown area.

 

Here's a new question. If I arrive at my new address in NJ with all the guns and ammo I will ever need, can I go shoot at a rifle or handgun range without getting one of those ID cards? Assuming that I never need to buy more ammo or another gun. There's no reason I *can't* get a card if I need to, I just hate the idea of being on one more registry of gun owners. If I can go shoot at ranges without a card, it might be worth it to just stock up on everything before I leave Indiana. Whereas if I need a card to go shoot basically anywhere, then there is not much reason to stock up before leaving and I'll just resign myself to getting the ID card.

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Hoo-Dawg,

 

If you settle in the Morristown/Parsippany area then two private indoor ranges are relatively close:

 

RTSP (Right To Self Protect) in Randolph - http://rtsponline.com/where-to-start/

 

GFH (Gun For Hire) in Woodland Park - http://gunforhire.com/first-time-shooting/

 

(Both are excellent, well-run, friendly and clean ranges/stores, and very supportive of efforts to expand gun rights in NJ, btw)

 

Both ranges only require government issued photo ID (a driver's license or similar) to shoot your own firearms.  A NJ Firearms Purchaser ID card (FID) is not required to shoot your own firearms, but may be needed to rent firearms.

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Here's a new question. If I arrive at my new address in NJ with all the guns and ammo I will ever need, can I go shoot at a rifle or handgun range without getting one of those ID cards? Assuming that I never need to buy more ammo or another gun. There's no reason I *can't* get a card if I need to, I just hate the idea of being on one more registry of gun owners. If I can go shoot at ranges without a card, it might be worth it to just stock up on everything before I leave Indiana. Whereas if I need a card to go shoot basically anywhere, then there is not much reason to stock up before leaving and I'll just resign myself to getting the ID card.

 

You never need to get a Firearms Purchaser ID card.    You can travel to and from a gun range legally as long as the firearms are NJ legal and you go directly to/from.  No stopping at the diner for lunch.  

 

Gun registration in NJ is voluntary, do not engage in it if you can help it.   Also, for what it's worth, buy any guns you want NOW before you leave IN.    

 

As for the Firearms Purchaser ID, I was in NJ for 10 years before I got mine.  I moved from Ohio in the 90s and feel the same way you do about it, but it was the only way to get a couple new guns I wanted.

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Somewhere south or east of Parsippany, probably Morris / Morristown area.

Welcome to NJ. I lived in Terre Haute for a few years, but that was so long ago I was able to keep guns and a reloading press in my dorm room.

 

Searching the NJ FID/PP Compliancy Project thread here will give you an idea of which towns are better or worse about issuing permits in a timely fashion. It's a little north of where you are looking, but I recall Montville as being particularly good, at least under their current police chief.

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It's really a matter of practicality. This might upset some people who might be much more invested in their arsenal than I am, but if we're making this decision solely based on firearms, I'm just not so invested in my shooting that I could justify asking my wife to commute an extra hour each way, 5 days a week, 52 weeks a year, in rain, snow, ice, traffic, so that the rifle in my safe can carry additional rounds per magazine. I don't know that I would do that to myself, let alone to my wife who does not shoot. And those extra rounds are the only banned item that I personally care much about. (Well, that and concealed carry, which I know there will be zero chance of any kind of carry for me in NJ.)

 

Yes, I absolutely support law-abiding citizens' rights to have access to things that I personally don't need. Yes, I agree these laws seem onerous and misguided while probably having zero impact on crime. And if I can help get rid of these laws through my voice and my vote, I will. But for the sake of immediate practicality, I don't own a single bayonet, nor do I want one. I don't own a grenade launcher, nor do I want one. I like traditional stocks just fine. I never even adjust my collapsible stocks. So is it worth years and years of lost time in a commute from PA to eastern NJ? Not to me, not just for the sake of high cap mags. If I was heavily invested in shooting, competitions, run and gun, etc, then it'd be a tougher choice. I will definitely miss my ability to carry, but since most of our working and social life will be taking place in NJ and NYC, I don't think a PA permit to carry would help me much.

 

There are other factors that have us looking toward PA, like house prices, property taxes and ease of finding a 3 car garage... but even then, it will be a tough sell to add an hour commute each way.

 

Somewhere south or east of Parsippany, probably Morris / Morristown area.

 

Here's a new question. If I arrive at my new address in NJ with all the guns and ammo I will ever need, can I go shoot at a rifle or handgun range without getting one of those ID cards? Assuming that I never need to buy more ammo or another gun. There's no reason I *can't* get a card if I need to, I just hate the idea of being on one more registry of gun owners. If I can go shoot at ranges without a card, it might be worth it to just stock up on everything before I leave Indiana. Whereas if I need a card to go shoot basically anywhere, then there is not much reason to stock up before leaving and I'll just resign myself to getting the ID card.

 

That's, certainly, a well thought out rationale for moving to NJ instead of moving to PA.

 

And, as others have said, you only need a FPID to purchase long guns, transporting long guns without restrictions (mostly) and purchasing handgun caliber ammo. Purchasing .22LR also requires a FIPD.

 

Having said that, if I were to move to NJ from a free state, I would buy as many guns I could possible afford, need and want. Buying guns in NJ, especially hand guns, is a major pain in the balls. And every handgun purchased in NJ gets automatically resisted to you.

 

Ammo can always be bought out of state. Some online places still ship to NJ without a FPID on file. 

 

Anyway, good luck with your move. 

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