Original Tavor (upgraded) vs New X95

[Lambo2936 297]

Which would you pick, assuming they are right around the same price?
Looking at Blakes Tavor; maybe we can make a deal, but am not sure if to go with a second hand upgraded TAVOR or a 'New' one. This isn't a debate as to whether or not to buy rifles second hand, as much as which would overall be the better rifle. He has a ton of money into it, that is for sure. Not the biggest fan of the woodland, to be honest, but it will either grow on me or ill refinish it; not a big deal.

Let me know what you guys think.
Thanks!

[Shane45 807]

On the topic of buying from Blake, your good to go! On the topic of SAR vs X95, it depends on how it fits you. For me, emphasis ME, I find the X95 a better fit for me. I am 6'2" and have a condor wingspan. The angles of the front grip and the charging handle all just tweaked me a little bit and I blame my long arms. But others prefer it! My shooting partner seems to prefer the SAR. He has become very accomplished at mag changes on the SAR system and is very fast. So in my opinion, its really a matter of preference. I happen to dig the camo job!

[Lambo2936 297]

On the topic of buying from Blake, your good to go! On the topic of SAR vs X95, it depends on how it fits you. For me, emphasis ME, I find the X95 a better fit for me. I am 6'2" and have a condor wingspan. The angles of the front grip and the charging handle all just tweaked me a little bit and I blame my long arms. But others prefer it! My shooting partner seems to prefer the SAR. He has become very accomplished at mag changes on the SAR system and is very fast. So in my opinion, its really a matter of preference. I happen to dig the camo job!

I'm short; like 5'5". I don't know where i can find an original tavor to test out, but i can swing by Heritage and maybe theyll have an x95 in stock for me to fondle and see if i like it.

[Shane45 807]

If im not mistaken GSSC has a SAR on the rental rack. Might be worth a session to see first hand.

[Screwball 483]

I went with the SAR.

 

While they are similar, I liked the controls on it over the X95. Rather the magazine release in the rear, and the charging handle forward. Not a fan of rails everywhere... did an Aimpoint PRO, and a Surefire Scout light on the side rail with a pressure switch. That was it... no vertical grip, nothing else. But I also did a 16.5" version, and had Steve from Monmouth Arms pin a muzzle brake. Doing a bullpup, I want it as short as possible... not an 18" barrel with a crappy brake.

 

The X95 does allow for you to swap the grip to get a traditional trigger guard, and has the rail. But the X95 was designed for sub 16" barrels. IWI had to lengthen it for importation... so the SAR is technically more "correct."

 

I've heard about accuracy issues with the X95, but don't think it is as big of a problem as made.

 

To choose... look at the charging handle location, magazine release, and forend. Triggers of all new rifles should be upgraded and good to go. I did the Geissele trigger and trigger pack... and WOW! Didn't adjust the trigger any, but if I did mess with it, I don't think I'd trust it on the rifle.

[Lambo2936 297]

Blakes already has any upgrade i'd want and then some. Its definitely a nice setup.
I'd like to mount an EO with a flip to the side magnifier on it that i picked up for a great deal a while back.
The shorter the better IMO but TAVOR's are fairly short as it is, so no big deal.

[BlueLineFish 615]

I'm picking up my x95 today. Went with that because the controls are similar to an AR.

[bhunted 887]

I'm picking up my x95 today. Went with that because the controls are similar to an AR.[/quote

 

Finally huh? [emoji3]

 

 

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[BlueLineFish 615]

Well..apparantly not. NICS won't be back by the time I have to leave the ffl so pickup will be delayed

[The_Matrix 105]

I shoot both and like the X95 better.  It feels nice for me when shouldering.  I also like the forearm of the x95. The X95 also looks more stream line.  I bought the x95.

 

But with all purchases, try both and see which one YOU like better.

 

Good luck

[Lambo2936 297]

Any chance either of you frequent Range 14 or are in the Woodbridge area and wouldn't mind me playing around with theirs to see if i like it? Not necessarily firing but just shouldering and putting a mag in and out and what not?(while supervised, and after providing proof as to my legitimacy IE Drivers license & FID).

[folush 4]

I owned SAR and was not impressed with the trigger. It made me furious to drop another $300 for the upgraded trigger so I sold it. The X95 claims to be the better trigger and I like the rails can be hidden behind the plastic sliders if you don't use them. I am picking up one today then I will tell the difference.

 

 

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[Shane45 807]

Furious a military based weapon has a military trigger?

[leo-польд 35]

I own SAR 16" for over year and I was planning to add X95 to it but I am disapointed in parts availability from IWI, basically it is impossible to get exchange kits or spare barrel/bolt combo from this company, nothing like this is in stock for over year. I found 9mm kit and that is all I could get over internet since I get SAR. Rifle is about 3k of shots and 5.56 bolt is showing wear on it a bit. If you like upgrades flexibility and keep spare parts - stay with AR or even AK.

[Shane45 807]

What exactly are you calling wear? Surface wear? Wear causing a dimensional difference in the part? A barrel is easy to swap out on an AK? You can get a 9mm kit for an AK? You can easily change an ar to 9mm with a kit not requiring a new upper or pulling apart your existing one? I agree complete barrel kits seem hard to get right now but...at least they can be gotten. Yes the AR is the lego of rifles. But what other new rifle has great parts availability? All new rifles take time for supply channels to develop in the marketplace. Here's one for you. Find me a replacement barrel for a Smith and Wesson M&P10. I am deeply rooted in the AR platform but I find your statements to be rather flawed on the Tavor.

 

http://www.tactical-life.com/firearms/iwi-tavor-sar-12000-round-torture-test/#action-4

[leo-польд 35]

What exactly are you calling wear? Surface wear? Wear causing a dimensional difference in the part? A barrel is easy to swap out on an AK? You can get a 9mm kit for an AK? You can easily change an ar to 9mm with a kit not requiring a new upper or pulling apart your existing one? I agree complete barrel kits seem hard to get right now but...at least they can be gotten. Yes the AR is the lego of rifles. But what other new rifle has great parts availability? All new rifles take time for supply channels to develop in the marketplace. Here's one for you. Find me a replacement barrel for a Smith and Wesson M&P10. I am deeply rooted in the AR platform but I find your statements to be rather flawed on the Tavor.

 

http://www.tactical-life.com/firearms/iwi-tavor-sar-12000-round-torture-test/#action-4

AK is cheaper, I could ger 3 Veprs for one Tavor, AK parts are widely available including surplus. I own 4 different AK's and never got single issue founding parts. You could replace pretty much any part if you like in AK, not as easy but you could. Wear on top of bolt part that is going into chamber, not horrible but noticible. Availability of parts from IWI is horrible, I enter my name for 18 inch barrel/bolt 5.56 kit into their system somethimes mid 2015 and it is still not available, how long should I wait?

[bhunted 887]

Sounds like a real dilemma. So you are going to keep stocking up on AKs? [emoji6]

 

 

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[Shane45 807]

You do realize you can buy parts from resellers right? Both 16 and 18 inch 5.56 barrel kits available on gunbroker right now, no wait. I think your issue is you didn't look hard enough. And you could get 2 highpoints for the price of 1 cheap AK. Perhaps you should stock up on highpoints. So instead of carrying 4 AK's you could carry 8 highpoints! Sounds like your describing finish wear. Hope you don't own any HK handguns as they will show finish wear just from racking the slide a few times. But hey, you could get 7.3 highpoint pistols for the price of 1 HK45! Personally I do not gauge a firearms merit on how many copies of the same firearm I can get for the price of a different firearm as I only have one pair of arms to carry it with. I match the firearm to the problem I am trying to solve regardless of its price. In the case of the Tavor, in the pursuit of the most compact non NFA firearm, I find it the best solution.

[bhunted 887]

While we are all trying to be informative, looksee what I found!

 

http://www.ammoland.com/2016/12/324188/?utm_source=Ammoland+Subscribers&utm_campaign=0272d420f5-RSS_EMAIL_CAMPAIGN&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_6f6fac3eaa-0272d420f5-20805637#axzz4UHExDphd

 

 

 

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[n4p226r 105]

what are the overall lengths differences between these two?  there are a bunch at RTSP and it looks like the old tavor was inches longer than the x95.  I'm wondering if thats just how they sit in the rack.  

[Shane45 807]

I think they are both roughly 26.5 with the 16" Barrel. The X95 is shorter so they had to thicken the butt pad to maintain ATF compliance.

[leo-польд 35]

Sounds like a real dilemma. So you are going to keep stocking up on AKs? [emoji6]

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Absolutely, that is my my main rifles in collection Watch Rob Ski on youtube about latest Vepr 7.62 test results.

[leo-польд 35]

You do realize you can buy parts from resellers right? Both 16 and 18 inch 5.56 barrel kits available on gunbroker right now, no wait. I think your issue is you didn't look hard enough. And you could get 2 highpoints for the price of 1 cheap AK. Perhaps you should stock up on highpoints. So instead of carrying 4 AK's you could carry 8 highpoints! Sounds like your describing finish wear. Hope you don't own any HK handguns as they will show finish wear just from racking the slide a few times. But hey, you could get 7.3 highpoint pistols for the price of 1 HK45! Personally I do not gauge a firearms merit on how many copies of the same firearm I can get for the price of a different firearm as I only have one pair of arms to carry it with. I match the firearm to the problem I am trying to solve regardless of its price. In the case of the Tavor, in the pursuit of the most compact non NFA firearm, I find it the best solution.

I like Tavor but I don't like the way IWI reperesents it to the public, they should care about parts same way as they should care about new rifles sales. I do own many HK pistols and many other, AK is just unlimited fun personally to me besides I could shot cheap Russian ammo, it is unbeatable by any firearm to me. Bolt is not just finish wear it is quite noticible and progressing scratches etc. Anyway it is pointless to argue about when facts are getting ignored, I explained my point about Tavor. Vepr is possibly best semi auto rifle you could get at this moment, it destroyed overpriced toy Daniel Defense AR in latest Robski tests on youtube, so it is not just cheaper, it is better. I will keep SAR but I am not going to buy X95 until IWI will bring important parts in stock.

[Shane45 807]

Facts are getting ignored? Exactly what fact has been ignored? You complained barrels couldn't be found. I found them in 5 minutes. I found barrels for a tavor but I can not get a barrel for a smith and Wesson American made ar.  Your criteria seems to be largely centered around cost. If cheap casual shooting is your criteria, then that makes sense. But your logic in your original post does not really hold up under scrutiny. If cheap shooting is your goal then indeed the hi point would be the clear winner. You haven't presented any logic to the contrary. An AK does not even remotely compare to a Tavor in terms of modularity or the chief attribute that someone seeking a tavor is likely after, its size. You say the AK has parts availability. Great but unless you have all  the tools to press fit the barrel  into the trunion, it doesn't really matter about availability does it? So your key point is price? I do not care about price. The AK is not the solution to the problem. So the price is irrelevant. If I need a specific antibiotic, having 4 times as many other antibiotics that wont solve the problem isn't better.

[medved11 71]

what are the overall lengths differences between these two? there are a bunch at RTSP and it looks like the old tavor was inches longer than the x95. I'm wondering if thats just how they sit in the rack.

The overall length between the two should be the same (presuming that they are both the 16" models). Maybe the Tavor was the "out of the box" NJ compliant model with an 18" barrel and the long factory pinned brake while the x95 may have been a 16" barrel with a "normal" length brake?

 

 

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[bhunted 887]

Absolutely, that is my my main rifles in collection Watch Rob Ski on youtube about latest Vepr 7.62 test results.

Don't need to. I have a weapon for every use. cqb, long range, etc..

I do not need more of the same rifle to do a particular job. If I'm being a collector of a particular type rifle, it would be different, but I do not collect any more. But I do think you are being unrealistic about the X95.... unless you are upgrading a part, you cannot expect failure this early on. Give it time. There are companies out there making 3rd party parts.

 

Lets face it. Its a kick ass rifle and I almost love it more than any of my ARs. Last time I had it to the range, I practically had the barrel red hot. I know my brake shield was. It took over a half hour to cool down. Picked it up again and it was flawless and on point. Can't ask for much more than that. And I'm sure IDF wouldn't put their trust in something that would readily fail so easy.

 

 

 

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[n4p226r 105]

The overall length between the two should be the same (presuming that they are both the 16" models). Maybe the Tavor was the "out of the box" NJ compliant model with an 18" barrel and the long factory pinned brake while the x95 may have been a 16" barrel with a "normal" length brake?

 

 

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Just checked their website. Looks like you are right. They list it as 18"

[n4p226r 105]

I like Tavor but I don't like the way IWI reperesents it to the public, they should care about parts same way as they should care about new rifles sales. I do own many HK pistols and many other, AK is just unlimited fun personally to me besides I could shot cheap Russian ammo, it is unbeatable by any firearm to me. Bolt is not just finish wear it is quite noticible and progressing scratches etc. Anyway it is pointless to argue about when facts are getting ignored, I explained my point about Tavor. Vepr is possibly best semi auto rifle you could get at this moment, it destroyed overpriced toy Daniel Defense AR in latest Robski tests on youtube, so it is not just cheaper, it is better. I will keep SAR but I am not going to buy X95 until IWI will bring important parts in stock.

You do realize those tests are worth nothing more than entertainment value right?

[medved11 71]

You do realize those tests are worth nothing more than entertainment value right?

The "sand tornado" test is my personal favorite

 

 

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[david8613 69]

Tavor and x95 are basically the Same bullpup but with small but positive tweaks for the x95. I had both and even though I loved my fully loaded Tavor, I think the x95 handles slightly better, feels lighter even though they weigh the same. X95 has more rails, modular grips, proper AR style mag release, stream lined bolt release, charging handle is in a better position.