First time loading .223 questions

[Silphidae 33]

Ok, I have almost 20k pistol rounds under my belt and just getting into .223 for the first time. 

 

I have questions around the prep process that will be on my Dillon 550b with an RT1500 trimmer. 

 

The three questions are focused on decap and neck sizing. 

 

Plans:

 

Position 1 -  I have a RCBS sizing/decap die already, should I just back it out so it does not size the neck but still decaps or go with a universal decap die?  I'd prefer to use the RCBS sizing/decap that I already have as long as no downsides. 

 

Position 2 - I'll trim/size with the Dillon RT1500.

 

Position 3 - I've read some people run a die that opens up the neck diameter to a consistent diameter.  I'm assuming the RT1500 trimmer/size die will do this adequately but want to get some thoughts is this extra step is even necessary and what would I use for this? 

 

Also, I am very confused on whether crimp is needed or not?  Lyman manual says yes if used in semi-auto but this is a real toss up based on real world experience.  Thoughts?

 

I'll be using xtreme 55 grainers with cannelure. 

 

I will have a case length/headspace gauge to ensure sizing is good. 

[louu 399]

Your going to get about ten different answers on everything you asked.

I'll give you a a couple to add to the pile.

 

For semi autos forget about neck sizing. You need to do a full length resize every time. Also you should crimp them to help prevent push back when the bolt slams them into the feed ramp. I like the Lee factory crimp die because it squeezes the brass instead of taper crimping it witch doesn't work well with mixed/different length brass. 

 

My hole process is

1. Shake off sand

2 lube and resize/deprime 

3 tumble

4 trim and primer pocket swage

5 load them 

 

I also do not flare the neck. 

[MidwestPX 172]

Ok, I have almost 20k pistol rounds under my belt and just getting into .223 for the first time. 

 

I have questions around the prep process that will be on my Dillon 550b with an RT1500 trimmer. 

 

The three questions are focused on decap and neck sizing. 

 

Plans:

 

Position 1 -  I have a RCBS sizing/decap die already, should I just back it out so it does not size the neck but still decaps or go with a universal decap die?  I'd prefer to use the RCBS sizing/decap that I already have as long as no downsides. 

I would use the universal decap die.  I process/load on a 1050 and I use a Lee universal decap die prior to sizing.  When you size twice, you get less variation in the final dimension however you're working the brass extra hard, cutting into the useful life of the case.

Position 2 - I'll trim/size with the Dillon RT1500.

You'll love this.

Position 3 - I've read some people run a die that opens up the neck diameter to a consistent diameter.  I'm assuming the RT1500 trimmer/size die will do this adequately but want to get some thoughts is this extra step is even necessary and what would I use for this? 

I'm one of those people.  I use a 21st Century Shooting expander die and mandrel that improves concentricity and also seems to smooth out the freshly-trimmed case mouth.  I haven't had to deburr any of my cases after putting them through an RT1500 and I load 20-25K rounds a year with most of that being .223 and .308.

Also, I am very confused on whether crimp is needed or not?  Lyman manual says yes if used in semi-auto but this is a real toss up based on real world experience.  Thoughts?

Dealer's choice IMO.  I like a small amount of crimp on anything going into a gas gun however have not experienced setback on rounds that haven't been crimped.  I have, however, found that my SD is improved when I crimp lightly, especially with my .458 SOCOM.

I'll be using xtreme 55 grainers with cannelure. 

 

I will have a case length/headspace gauge to ensure sizing is good. 

[Silphidae 33]

Your going to get about ten different answers on everything you asked.

I'll give you a a couple to add to the pile.

 

For semi autos forget about neck sizing. You need to do a full length resize every time. Also you should crimp them to help prevent push back when the bolt slams them into the feed ramp. I like the Lee factory crimp die because it squeezes the brass instead of taper crimping it witch doesn't work well with mixed/different length brass. 

 

My hole process is

1. Shake off sand

2 lube and resize/deprime 

3 tumble

4 trim and primer pocket swage

5 load them 

 

I also do not flare the neck. 

Thanks, Definitely full size with the Dillon and won't flare the neck.  Looks like Lee Factory Crimp will be the winner. 

[Silphidae 33]

 

Ok, I have almost 20k pistol rounds under my belt and just getting into .223 for the first time. 

 

I have questions around the prep process that will be on my Dillon 550b with an RT1500 trimmer. 

 

The three questions are focused on decap and neck sizing. 

 

Plans:

 

Position 1 -  I have a RCBS sizing/decap die already, should I just back it out so it does not size the neck but still decaps or go with a universal decap die?  I'd prefer to use the RCBS sizing/decap that I already have as long as no downsides. 

I would use the universal decap die.  I process/load on a 1050 and I use a Lee universal decap die prior to sizing.  When you size twice, you get less variation in the final dimension however you're working the brass extra hard, cutting into the useful life of the case.

Position 2 - I'll trim/size with the Dillon RT1500.

You'll love this.

Position 3 - I've read some people run a die that opens up the neck diameter to a consistent diameter.  I'm assuming the RT1500 trimmer/size die will do this adequately but want to get some thoughts is this extra step is even necessary and what would I use for this? 

I'm one of those people.  I use a 21st Century Shooting expander die and mandrel that improves concentricity and also seems to smooth out the freshly-trimmed case mouth.  I haven't had to deburr any of my cases after putting them through an RT1500 and I load 20-25K rounds a year with most of that being .223 and .308.

Also, I am very confused on whether crimp is needed or not?  Lyman manual says yes if used in semi-auto but this is a real toss up based on real world experience.  Thoughts?

Dealer's choice IMO.  I like a small amount of crimp on anything going into a gas gun however have not experienced setback on rounds that haven't been crimped.  I have, however, found that my SD is improved when I crimp lightly, especially with my .458 SOCOM.

I'll be using xtreme 55 grainers with cannelure. 

 

I will have a case length/headspace gauge to ensure sizing is good. 

 

This is PERFECT, thank you.  Great point about universal decap vs. full size.  Also, I have plenty of space in the machine to add another station so I'll look for 21st century neck expander just to ensure that neck tension is spot on.   

[Silphidae 33]

Midwest,

 

Do you find tumbling in regular walnut/corncob mixture enough to help deburr after the 21st Century expander? I have it on order hopefully I'll be ready to go by mid week.

[MidwestPX 172]

Midwest,

 

Do you find tumbling in regular walnut/corncob mixture enough to help deburr after the 21st Century expander? I have it on order hopefully I'll be ready to go by mid week.

I run walnut on the first pass prior to sizing/processing and corn after.  With a capful of rough cut car polish, I haven't had to deburr anything in 50K+ rounds.  All on the same carbide cutter.

[Silphidae 33]

Running into a hiccup in the primer seat step.  Here's the process I'm following.....

 

First pass through 550b

1. RCBS Universal Decap
2. Trim/Size with RT1500

Decrimp on Dillon Super Swage 600

 

Second pass through 550b

1. 21st Century expander die AND seat primer
2. Add powder without expanding neck
3. Seat bullet
4. Lee Factory Crimp Die

I'm using CCI #400 Small Rifle Primers and can't seem to seat them fully,  When I'm seating the primers I hit a hard stop but they are NOT flush in the case.  I don't know if it's a decrimp issue because I run into the same issue whether I'm using PMC (non-crimped) or military stuff.  Even tried to "over de-crimp" and come against the issue. 

 

Thoughts? 

[Old School 611]

You're seating in the 550B?

Make sure your primer anvil which pushes up and seats the primer is coming up high enough.

The anvil is held in by a set screw and may have slipped down not seating your primers deep enough.

Running into a hiccup in the primer seat step.  Here's the process I'm following.....

 

First pass through 550b

1. RCBS Universal Decap
2. Trim/Size with RT1500

Decrimp on Dillon Super Swage 600

 

Second pass through 550b

1. 21st Century expander die AND seat primer
2. Add powder without expanding neckB

[Silphidae 33]

The anvil is locked in place, I tightened the shell plate and there is no debris around the shaft that would prevent full seating that I can see.

[MidwestPX 172]

When you say they aren't flush, are they just barely shy of being flush or are they significantly protruding?  Also, if you're tumbling them in corn or walnut after sizing, I highly recommend running a universal decap die in the first station to knock out any media stuck in the flash hole.

[Golf battery 1,223]

Have you tried seperating commercial brass out to see if its seating more deeply. Isnt it supposed to seat .003 below? Somethings off if its seating flush. Keep looking at all angles. Im sure youll figure it out. I use a seperate rcbs primer seater because i was never satisfied with the inconsistent seating depths.

[Ff312 5]

Try to clean and swage the primer pocket. Dillon 600 works great.

[Silphidae 33]

No media in the flash hole, completely clean.  I'm swaging on SS600 and I'm getting the same issue with both military and non-military, although military happens more often.  I've set the SS600 so I can barely seat the case in the Swager because it is so tight.  Can see how to swage anymore that it already is. . 

 

Darn this rifle reloading thing is a lot harder than pistol rounds, just loaded up 2k 9mm with NO issues. 

[carl_g 568]

So if commercial brass(no crimp) is the same, the issue has to reside on the press since there is no need to swage commercial brass. Is the anvil adjustable? Is there any way that the anvil could be out of spec? (too short)

[Silphidae 33]

Who knows, it works fine with small pistol primers.

[Silphidae 33]

May try a hand primer and se if that belps.

[Golf battery 1,223]

Really with a dillon press or any press there shouldnt be this issue. If youre within my range ill stop by and take a look. Pm me if interested.

[Ff312 5]

Long shot here but maybe a bad batch of primers? (Out of spec) I've been using winchesters with no problems on roughly the same setup you have, with a mix of commercial and non brass. If possible try a different primer.

[Silphidae 33]

Long shot here but maybe a bad batch of primers? (Out of spec) I've been using winchesters with no problems on roughly the same setup you have, with a mix of commercial and non brass. If possible try a different primer.

I'll give that a shot, thanks, 

[Silphidae 33]

Really with a dillon press or any press there shouldnt be this issue. If youre within my range ill stop by and take a look. Pm me if interested.

Travelling heavily next few weeks, I'll take you up on that if I can't figure it out.  Thanks,