New ATF 4473 In Place

[45Doll 5,874]

In case you didn't notice, as of 1/1/2017 the new ATF 4473 is in place. The Warning in Section 11.e reminds you that if you use marijuana in your state legally you are still an unlawful user federally. The implication is that you must answer Yes, and disqualify yourself from buying a firearm.

 

Curiously, the Notices, Instructions and Definitions section omits any mention of 11.e.

 

No effect here in New Jermany, but our buzzed brothers in the marijuana-legal states have an issue.

 

If anyone cares to notice.

[PK90 3,570]

It went into effect on Monday.

 

http://www.njgunforums.com/forum/index.php/topic/84115-form-4473-updated-new-usage-starts-01162017/?hl=4473

[carl_g 568]

What issue are they going to have?

Zilch!

[PK90 3,570]

What issue are they going to have?

Zilch!

If a buyer smokes MJ, he can't acquire a gun from a dealer, unless he lies on the 4473.

 

Any past or pending arrests for possession can be found out by the FBI NICS if they want to. Far reaching, but still a Crime.

 

Sent from an undisclosed location

[Purple Patrick 638]

There's a box that asks if you are planning to over throw the government. I wonder how many times that's been checked

 

this signature exceeds the 15 character capacity count

[carl_g 568]

If a buyer smokes MJ, he can't acquire a gun from a dealer, unless he lies on the 4473.

 

Any past or pending arrests for possession can be found out by the FBI NICS if they want to. Far reaching, but still a Crime.

 

Sent from an undisclosed location

Technically I guess you're right but that's not going to happen. And if you have no prior arrests for possession there is no way to tell if someone's truthful or not while checking No.

[Screwball 483]

Technically I guess you're right but that's not going to happen. And if you have no prior arrests for possession there is no way to tell if someone's truthful or not while checking No.

Unless you have a marijuana card, which kind of is a confirmed way of showing an individual smoked a drug that the Federal government considers a Schedule I controlled substance.

 

Then, you lied on the 4473, which is a felony...

[kirk2022 43]

I did A transfer at my FFL last Friday, the new line was on the form then.

[PK90 3,570]

I did A transfer at my FFL last Friday, the new line was on the form then.

Let me clarify. It was optional to use, if you can get the new forms. It was mandatory to start using them on Monday. They are in limited supply so I held out until the last minute.

 

ETA: Nothing actually changed. It was always illegal if one used MJ and bought a gun from a dealer.

 

Sent from an undisclosed location

[leadunderpressure 52]

So if you have a medical card for weed you're a prohibited person? That's no longer illegal posession and the feds themselves issue medical cards. That's a shitstorm waiting to happen in court.

[Screwball 483]

So if you have a medical card for weed you're a prohibited person? That's no longer illegal posession and the feds themselves issue medical cards. That's a shitstorm waiting to happen in court.

That is correct...

 

That card is a state card. The Federal government sees marijuana as a controlled substance... just like heroin or LSD. Even if the state allows you to, the Federal government still considers it a narcotic. That question is specifically on the 4473, and if they ever decide to link the list together, you shouldn't have been allowed to purchase the gun, since you should have answered yes to that question. If the transfer goes through, either you lied or the FFL didn't check the answers. When you get to that point, better grab some vaseline...

[leadunderpressure 52]

That medical doctor on a state license issues the same level of drug regulated by federal government agencies. This is a popcorn case for the courts. It's a shitstorm looking for a place to happen.

[leadunderpressure 52]

Or asked a other way, what makes the federal medical weed card different from a state one?

[carl_g 568]

Line e questions if you are an unlawful user.. what does that mean? What defines a user? Anyone who has ever smoked weed? Someone who has smoked in the past year? What if you gave it up a week before your purchase? Then you are not a user right? What if you start smoking pot after you filled out the form? That line can never be determined as truth or a lie because it's vague and there are tons of ways it can be interpreted.

[leadunderpressure 52]

http://www.medicalcannabis.com/patients-care-givers/federal-ind-patients/

 

 

There are 4 patients left with federal permission to use cannabis under the investigational new drug provisions . Is the federal government going to ban them from firearms as well?

 

What is going to be the legal argument that the federal license is somehow different from the state license?

[maintenanceguy 510]

MJ is still illegal federally.  Obama announced that the DOJ would not be enforcing the law for medical MJ users in states that passed medical MJ cards.  But still illegal.

[PK90 3,570]

Remember, this is nothing new. It was always illegal to use and buy. The new form just clarified it in plain writing that the pot heads can understand. LOL. I mean no offense to those whose aholes are puckering now. Always read the form that you sign.

 

Sent from an undisclosed location

[Khamil10 5]

Line e questions if you are an unlawful user.. what does that mean? What defines a user? Anyone who has ever smoked weed? Someone who has smoked in the past year? What if you gave it up a week before your purchase? Then you are not a user right? What if you start smoking pot after you filled out the form? That line can never be determined as truth or a lie because it's vague and there are tons of ways it can be interpreted.

 

The ATF actually spells out what constitutes a user. While I forget all the specifics, smoking within a week or a year, even if prior, would disqualify you. They look to arrests as evidence, so absent a bust on your part, could be hard for them to prove. If they had enough probable cause they might be able to force a piss test.

 

 

That medical doctor on a state license issues the same level of drug regulated by federal government agencies. This is a popcorn case for the courts. It's a shitstorm looking for a place to happen.

 

There's already been a case in California. Court held that medical MJ card was disqualifying for firearm purchase as it indicated intent to use. Woman who brought the case argued she hadn't actually smoked pot, just had the medical card. Court didn't care.

 

You're right, though, that this is a big issue, especially in a state like, say, Colorado, where they like their guns and their weed in equal measure.

[bhunted 887]

Stupid law/idea. I suppose people who take Vicodin or other drugs that affect driving, are ok to own guns. (Sarcasm)...

 

 

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[carl_g 568]

That's absurd no one is getting a piss test for this LOL Take off the tin foil hats people.

[carl_g 568]

Stupid law/idea. I suppose people who take Vicodin or other drugs that affect driving, are ok to own guns. (Sarcasm)...

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

You're absolutely correct. Prescription nacarcotics, bueno... pot... no bueno..

[bhunted 887]

You're absolutely correct. Prescription nacarcotics, bueno... pot... no bueno..

Add alcohol to it. Absurdity is at it's highest.

 

 

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[Khamil10 5]

That's absurd no one is getting a piss test for this LOL Take off the tin foil hats people.

 

Well, marijuana has indeed been known to make its users paranoid...