US Army chooses Sig Sauer's modular handgun system

[JimB1 554]

http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2017/01/daniel-zimmerman/army-chooses-sig-sauers-modular-handgun-system/

 

https://www.armytimes.com/articles/army-your-new-handgun-will-be-a-sig-sauer

 

Looks like Sig finally got the US Army contract they lost out to Beretta last time.

-Jim

[Vlad G 345]

Good, that means there will be lots of people driving up prices for the "army's gun" and not screwing up the prices for everyone else buying the rest of the guns on the market.

[Purple Patrick 638]

Crap I wanted one. It might be to late now

 

this signature exceeds the 15 character capacity count

[Zeke 5,504]

Pfft, Sig

Jus sayen

[carl_g 568]

Pfft, Sig

Jus sayen

Yeah I'm with you on that..

[302w 83]

Yeah I'm with you on that..

Yeah.

 

At least it isn't a Glock.

[Indianajonze 379]

idk i love sig. really, really well made firearms. that said, not too sure why out of that vast and wonderful lineup they chose the plastic gun. i get the modular crap, but still

[vjf915 456]

Good for them.  I've been wondering if the Navy will be making any useful changes before I get out.  So far, the only decision they seem to be interested in are changing the uniforms every 4-5 years after spending millions of dollars in research, changing the rating system, then 4 months later taking away the rating system, and finally reinstating said rating system after a bunch of backlash.  It'd be nice if they moved in the forward direction.

[Ray Ray 3,566]

It was only a matter of time before the armed forces replaced the M9, and we all knew it would be either a Glock/S&W/Sig/FN/H&K

[ChrisJM981 924]

Does this mean there will be a fire sale on M9A3 pistols?

[jrfly3006 42]

Does this mean there will be a fire sale on M9A3 pistols?

Maybe... but like Vlad said there will be a run on the P320 and an obligatory price bump

 

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[Screwball 483]

One thing nobody is considering... Trump might cut it. [emoji6]

 

All things aside, I don't think it was a necessary need. Yea, the P320 is a nice gun... but why would the military need something in compact (and if so, in the same gun)? Why must we be able to pull out the receiver and add in new grip frames? Did the military really mess up the lower halves of M9s that much?

 

Personally, I think Beretta gained more customers by getting out of Maryland due to state gun laws than they would by keeping the contract. They also released that G conversion, and supposedly are going for a single sided option of that kit... so they are moving in a positive direction. SIG can do what they want, but I'm not looking at another overpriced pistol because the DoD picked it. I have a P228 and a P938... nothing else is really interesting me from them.

 

But to be fair, Beretta isn't interesting me, either. CZ got my last handgun purchase. [emoji41]

[bhunted 887]

Any idea what the civilian price is? Because when I hear how a gun is over priced more than BrandX, I have to shake my head. Most full and compact guns that are popular ARE expensive. Most popular guns are almost all over a grand.

 

Good example is the Sig P229 Legion or an HK Lem version of their most popular are only a little extra but people complain.

If you take the latest and greatest, add in the night sights, the extra mags, the prices are still fair. But a plain P229, put night sights on, buy the extra mags, perhaps add a SRT kit and you end up paying it anyway.

 

 

 

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[tattooo 220]

As of now they go for under $500 online

[jrfly3006 42]

Just read on Firearms blog that someone (unconfirmed) is stating tha Army is paying $207 per unit...Does seem like a good deal for the Army (Trump effect?)

 

http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2017/01/24/grapevine-us-army-pays-207-per-pistol-sig-sauer-m17-modular-handguns/

 

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[bhunted 887]

Not bad... Wait a bit and probably could be had for even less.

 

 

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[Vlad G 345]

 but why would the military need something in compact

 

For the same reason a lot of the military has been issuing G19s. Pistols are secondaries for most, they don't need to be full size guns and when humping galactic qualities of crap, smaller is better. Hell, I would ask why does the military need a full size gun?

[Screwball 483]

Any idea what the civilian price is? Because when I hear how a gun is over priced more than BrandX, I have to shake my head. Most full and compact guns that are popular ARE expensive. Most popular guns are almost all over a grand.

 

Good example is the Sig P229 Legion or an HK Lem version of their most popular are only a little extra but people complain.

If you take the latest and greatest, add in the night sights, the extra mags, the prices are still fair. But a plain P229, put night sights on, buy the extra mags, perhaps add a SRT kit and you end up paying it anyway.

If this was directed to my post, I meant SIG pricing, in general...

 

If you take a standard 92FS and a standard P226, get it from the same shop, the SIG will usually be about $200 more. They are, for the most part, identical pistols in regards to a quality 9mm that has similar capacities/sizes.

 

Yes, all makers have special edition guns that cost a premium... but SIG's premium on their full metal guns have been outrageous for years. There is not one excuse for it that really makes sense... unless you figure in H&K. We are so great, you will pay more.

 

For the same reason a lot of the military has been issuing G19s. Pistols are secondaries for most, they don't need to be full size guns and when humping galactic qualities of crap, smaller is better. Hell, I would ask why does the military need a full size gun?

Fair enough... then I'll rephrase it to why does the military need the ability to go with both sizes?

 

From every article I've read, the full size would be issued to general soldiers, with compacts going to some units (MPs, for example). Why put in the money to get all that versatility when they could have just ordered a compact pistol and be done?

[bhunted 887]

First, don't compare a 92 to others. Not a fair comparison.

...and that's what I am talking about... Again, lets use the P226 as an example...

They don't seem to have a basic model but if you compare the P226 Legion which is loaded with everything plus and suggested retaiil is $1413 per their site and lets say a P226 Nitron for $1087, which seems to be the closest to basic... You are talking about a $326... Now go back to the basic and add extra mags, SRT kit, Bruce Gray trigger, you are not that much off for a premiium gun. We are not talking about the upper class X Series or anything.

 

Now as for HKs... Not sure how to interpret that remark. But they are almost all up there with the other major brands and they will hold out for generations. I have 5 of them and they to this day are flawless. Hell, when I bought my HK UPS 45 Compact, it still send Patend Pending on the grip.

 

Bottom line, shop around and most models are about the same in price depending on add-ons. Mags for any pistol today are nuts in itself. . Nobody should pay suggested retail. I didn't.... In the end, its a matter of preference.

 

If this was directed to my post, I meant SIG pricing, in general...

If you take a standard 92FS and a standard P226, get it from the same shop, the SIG will usually be about $200 more. They are, for the most part, identical pistols in regards to a quality 9mm that has similar capacities/sizes.

Yes, all makers have special edition guns that cost a premium... but SIG's premium on their full metal guns have been outrageous for years. There is not one excuse for it that really makes sense... unless you figure in H&K. We are so great, you will pay more.
 

[Vlad G 345]

I

 

Fair enough... then I'll rephrase it to why does the military need the ability to go with both sizes?

 

From every article I've read, the full size would be issued to general soldiers, with compacts going to some units (MPs, for example). Why put in the money to get all that versatility when they could have just ordered a compact pistol and be done?

 

I agree that seems odd to me as well. It isn't as if the armorers are going to want to hump spare frames and slides to switch around, odds are you are going to get a compact for a full size and exchange it for another when needed. The darn chassis is not magical or expensive so might as well have a whole other gun around. From that point of you they could have stocked G19s and G17s (or M&Ps or whatever). I get the modularity on suppressor barrels, maybe, and MAYBE on caliber if they every choose to switch calibers without replacing the guns, but other wise I don't get it. 

[Screwball 483]

First, don't compare a 92 to others. Not a fair comparison.

...and that's what I am talking about... Again, lets use the P226 as an example...

They don't seem to have a basic model but if you compare the P226 Legion which is loaded with everything plus and suggested retaiil is $1413 per their site and lets say a P226 Nitron for $1087, which seems to be the closest to basic... You are talking about a $326... Now go back to the basic and add extra mags, SRT kit, Bruce Gray trigger, you are not that much off for a premiium gun. We are not talking about the upper class X Series or anything.

 

Now as for HKs... Not sure how to interpret that remark. But they are almost all up there with the other major brands and they will hold out for generations. I have 5 of them and they to this day are flawless. Hell, when I bought my HK UPS 45 Compact, it still send Patend Pending on the grip.

 

Bottom line, shop around and most models are about the same in price depending on add-ons. Mags for any pistol today are nuts in itself. . Nobody should pay suggested retail. I didn't.... In the end, its a matter of preference.

I'm comparing SIG pricing verses Beretta pricing... you really can't say a 92 comparison isn't fair. They are identical guns, built similarly, and were designed during the same time period.

 

On another forum, I went over the price differences between a standard 92 and a standard P226... Beretta is $615.24. SIG is $949.99. These prices are Davidson's, at the same shop, without fees or tax included.

 

But let us toss in another similar gun... will be a few dollars off (MSRP is $10 higher than a full size), but a CZ75 Compact would be $632.49 (same as the others... no fees, same shop). Price difference between SIG and Beretta was $334.75. CZ would be pretty much the same price. Sorry, but that is what I call overpriced... and it is because you are buying a SIG. [emoji849]

 

H&K, again... what polymer pistols are priced in that similar range? It is paying for a name, where a Glock will function identically.

 

We aren't in the 1970s/1980s anymore. If you buy from a reputable company, you are very likely going to buy a pistol that won't have problems. If you do, all manufacturers would fix it. Buy a SIG, S&W, Glock, Beretta, CZ, H&K, Ruger... you wouldn't have a piece of garbage in your hands. Why spend $334.75 more? Only answer I can say is if you prefer that design... which is a fair criticism. But SIG is not any better than Beretta.

[bhunted 887]

I never said any was better than the other. What you are not adding in is what I mention in accessories. Example once more. Triggers, Night Sights and most of all, Extra Mags. Now one may not care about fancy triggers, but everyone will buy extra mags. When these companies advertise, some include no night sights, no fancy triggers and only one lousy mag. One way or another, you pay it now or later.

My Sig P229 Legion was only $1100 and people complained about that price. It did come with 3 mags, night sights, SRT, custom Bruce Gray trigger, etc. Custom case, challenge coin were also included. So that is not worth it?

 

I still can't and won't compare the 92 to others. Imho, its not the same. BTW, a lot of the military were pissed when they took away their 1911s in lieu of the 92.... most I know to this day, still hate them.

When I use to inspect the armory gun vaults, all my beloved 1911s were gone and were replaced by 92s.... there were a lot of pissed off people that day. I was never a fan of the 92 either. Had one and it was not something that really made me go gaga. But thats just me.

 

We can keep going at this all day. Lets just agree to disagree. My mind set is not the same as the younger clan. I'm too old school to change too much.

Cheers!

 

 

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[Screwball 483]

We can keep going at this all day. Lets just agree to disagree. My mind set is not the same as the younger clan. I'm too old school to change too much.

Very true... but you made a point directed towards my post saying you "shake your head" when someone says a brand is over priced. Then, you say you can't compare a 92 to a SIG. Being old school has nothing to do with fanboying SIG up.

 

Sorry, but that is my view. If you want to call it out, go ahead... but facts don't change simple addition/subtraction. I wasn't talking about a Legion verses a standard 92. Both (standard guns) come with two magazines, so for $334.75 more... you get night sights with the SIG. You can spin that anyway you want, but night sight don't cost that much... especially Meprolights.

 

If you don't like the 92, no problem. I have no issues with SIGs other than pricing, for the record (own a P228 and a P938; one is a collectible, and the other doesn't have a similar sized 9mm built by another company). But this...

 

Most full and compact guns that are popular ARE expensive. Most popular guns are almost all over a grand.

...is complete BS. I just gave you two comparable guns (CZ and Beretta), which are similarly sized and identically built (non-polymer). Both of those are well under $1,000. M&Ps, Glocks, and XDs are all under $1,000. SIG is an outlier. Not saying they are a garbage gun, but what exactly do they do over any of the less expensive pistols? Absolutely nothing.

[Zeke 5,504]

Us military contractors need to have manufacturing of said in the USA.

Educate me on cz as I don't think they manufacture here

[bhunted 887]

Very true... but you made a point directed towards my post saying you "shake your head" when someone says a brand is over priced. Then, you say you can't compare a 92 to a SIG. Being old school has nothing to do with fanboying SIG up.

 

Sorry, but that is my view. If you want to call it out, go ahead... but facts don't change simple addition/subtraction. I wasn't talking about a Legion verses a standard 92. Both (standard guns) come with two magazines, so for $334.75 more... you get night sights with the SIG. You can spin that anyway you want, but night sight don't cost that much... especially Meprolights.

 

If you don't like the 92, no problem. I have no issues with SIGs other than pricing, for the record (own a P228 and a P938; one is a collectible, and the other doesn't have a similar sized 9mm built by another company). But this...

 

...is complete BS. I just gave you two comparable guns (CZ and Beretta), which are similarly sized and identically built (non-polymer). Both of those are well under $1,000. M&Ps, Glocks, and XDs are all under $1,000. SIG is an outlier. Not saying they are a garbage gun, but what exactly do they do over any of the less expensive pistols? Absolutely nothing.

TETO....

 

 

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[Hairless_Ape 76]

Some of you clowns are getting so caught up in the full size vs compact baloney that you're completely missing the point of this program. This was about S/M/L grip frame widths to fit a full range of hand sizes. Sig also makes a compact height grip for a full length slide, so drop that bs about poor armorers not wanting to keep track of different length slides. The silly shit you guys come up with is ridiculous.

[DSD1026 48]

Some of you clowns are getting so caught up in the full size vs compact baloney that you're completely missing the point of this program. This was about S/M/L grip frame widths to fit a full range of hand sizes. Sig also makes a compact height grip for a full length slide, so drop that bs about poor armorers not wanting to keep track of different length slides. The silly shit you guys come up with is ridiculous.

 

My only issue with this is when you say Sig makes a compact grip height with a full length slide.  Which model is that exactly?  I know they make a compact slide on a full length grip (their 'carry' version) but i have not seen a standard full length slide on a compact grip length.  (unless that is actually what you meant?)

[weekend_junkie 129]

It looked to me that the frame along the rails is the same size for both "compact" and "full-size". As for grip, it look like an extended magazine provided the extra size there.

[Hairless_Ape 76]

My only issue with this is when you say Sig makes a compact grip height with a full length slide. Which model is that exactly? I know they make a compact slide on a full length grip (their 'carry' version) but i have not seen a standard full length slide on a compact grip length. (unless that is actually what you meant?)

Yes, there is a compact grip w/full length slide. UPC 798681522804

[9X19 125]

Does this mean there will be a fire sale on M9A3 pistols?

How could there be when they barely make any??