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Does anyone buy carry guns even though you can't

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Here's a reality of life:

 

Bad guys routinely carry and conceal big guns. 1911s, full size Glocks, big revolvers - including a black powder Walker Colt replica (unloaded, but he still carried it and threatened people with it. He concealed it well, and if he didn't exhibit other traits of a person carrying a gun, you wouldn't know it by looking at him this he had the smoke wagon in his waistband) I took off some idiot kid.

 

So, if the bad guys can do it - and they do - why is it so hard to get good guys to carry guns that they can actually fight with? Carrying any handgun is already a compromise. They are notoriously bad at stopping fights. If I knew I was walking into a gunfight, I would either just stay home, or, I would bring long guns and all my friends with long guns. But that isn't practical because I don't have a crystal ball and I can't walk around everywhere with an AR sling to my chest. So, a handgun it is. I am not going to hamper my abilities further by carrying a gun with limited capacity, reduced ballistics, and is harder to shoot well.

 

Carrying a gun should be comforting, not necessarily always comfortable. So it's hot out? With the proper holster and belt you can easily conceal a Glock 19/23 sized pistol in shorts and a t-shirt. I do it all summer long, when I am not carrying a Glock 35 instead.

 

When you are in the mall with your family, and shots ring out, and you are having the worst day of your life, do you really want to be holding that tiny, lightweight, low capacity gun that you threw in your pocket because it is easy to carry? Or the full size pistol that you shoot every range trip, that is chambered in a caliber commonly accepted as being able to achieve the terminal ballistics required to stop a determined attacker (.38/.357, 9mm, .40, .45, .44), and that you know you can shoot better than anything else in your safe? Even if you don't have to fire a single round, what is going to give you more confidence?

 

The whole justification for these little mouse guns of "The first rule of a gunfight is to have a gun" is bullshit.

 

The first rule of a gunfight is "Be prepared for a gunfight" - Carry the gun that you shoot the best. One that is chambered in a reliable duty caliber, and can be concealed with reasonable efforts. Most importantly, have the mindset and ability/training to use the equipment you choose effectively and decisively.

 

Mindset is paramount in all things self defense related. Carrying a gun is a life choice. It requires dedication. Set yourself up for success before leaving the house, because hope is not a tactic.

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Here's a reality ....

Awesome advice! (Not to hijack the thread). My thinking was I wanted to keep with 9mm, my 43 configuration gives me 7+1 vs my 26 configuration at 10+1, and still much better than my other research into revolvers at 5. Maybe it's my bone structure, but I found I am much more comfy, hense more likely, to go out with the 43 over the 26.

My thought process is not to go in with guns ablazing (there are much better trained people who are great at that), but as a private citizen to retreat and defend, instead of hide and cower. Like the earlier post about the mall scare, find a safe place and defend it until the people with rifles show up.

Thoughts?

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Here's a reality of life:

 

Bad guys routinely carry and conceal big guns. 1911s, full size Glocks, big revolvers - including a black powder Walker Colt replica (unloaded, but he still carried it and threatened people with it. He concealed it well, and if he didn't exhibit other traits of a person carrying a gun, you wouldn't know it by looking at him this he had the smoke wagon in his waistband) I took off some idiot kid.

 

So, if the bad guys can do it - and they do - why is it so hard to get good guys to carry guns that they can actually fight with? Carrying any handgun is already a compromise. They are notoriously bad at stopping fights. If I knew I was walking into a gunfight, I would either just stay home, or, I would bring long guns and all my friends with long guns. But that isn't practical because I don't have a crystal ball and I can't walk around everywhere with an AR sling to my chest. So, a handgun it is. I am not going to hamper my abilities further by carrying a gun with limited capacity, reduced ballistics, and is harder to shoot well.

 

Carrying a gun should be comforting, not necessarily always comfortable. So it's hot out? With the proper holster and belt you can easily conceal a Glock 19/23 sized pistol in shorts and a t-shirt. I do it all summer long, when I am not carrying a Glock 35 instead.

 

When you are in the mall with your family, and shots ring out, and you are having the worst day of your life, do you really want to be holding that tiny,blightweight, low capacity gun that you threw in your pocket because it is easy to carry? Or the full size pistol that you shoot every range trip, that is chambered in a caliber commonly accepted as being able to achieve the terminal ballistics required to stop a determined attacker (.38/.357, 9mm, .40, .45, .44), that you know you can shoot better than anything else in your safe? Even if you don't have to fire a single round, what is going to give you more confidence?

 

The whole justification for these little mouse guns of "The first rule of a gunfight is to have a gun" is bullshit.

 

The first rule of a gunfight is "Be prepared for a gunfight" - Carry the gun that you shoot the best, that is chambered in a reliable duty caliber, and can be concealed with reasonable efforts, and have the mindset and ability/training to use it effectively.

 

Mindset is paramount in all things self defense related. Carrying a gun is a life choice, and requires dedication. Set yourself up for success before leaving the house, because hope is not a tactic.

While I agree with your points, in NJ, we still have a duty to retreat.

Hopefully, we will get a stand your ground law, but until then, fighting back will be an issue.

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This.

 

I also really want to carry a Tok

They make for a nice IWB in the back carry because they are so thin. Also one of only 2 handgun specific rounds that will go right through a Type 2 Bulletproof vest. The other is the 5and7, but you will need to put enough holes in the attacker and wait for them to bleed out. 7.62x25 has stopping power.

 

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Carry Gun:  a full-size .45 automatic w/ a Wilson 10 round mag & one in the pipe :) .  Perhaps the thread should be reconfigured to say:  "Hide-Out Guns suitable for warm climates that can be used in IDPA BUG Matches"?

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I don't know why there is so little love for the Beretta's and everyone wants Glocks or Sigs, but I feel it safest carrying a Beretta especially for someone new to carrying. One in the chamber safety off. It's just like carrying a revolver. First round is double action then single action. Nothing to mess with, little chance of accidental discharge.

 

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Awesome advice! (Not to hijack the thread). My thinking was I wanted to keep with 9mm, my 43 configuration gives me 7+1 vs my 26 configuration at 10+1, and still much better than my other research into revolvers at 5. Maybe it's my bone structure, but I found I am much more comfy, hense more likely, to go out with the 43 over the 26.

My thought process is not to go in with guns ablazing (there are much better trained people who are great at that), but as a private citizen to retreat and defend, instead of hide and cower. Like the earlier post about the mall scare, find a safe place and defend it until the people with rifles show up.

Thoughts?

This!

I consider it a defensive firearm.

Common sense should still prevail. Jus cause I'm packing I'm not gonna go stroll through the ghetto.

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Here's a reality of life:

 

Bad guys routinely carry and conceal big guns. 1911s, full size Glocks, big revolvers - including a black powder Walker Colt replica (unloaded, but he still carried it and threatened people with it. He concealed it well, and if he didn't exhibit other traits of a person carrying a gun, you wouldn't know it by looking at him this he had the smoke wagon in his waistband) I took off some idiot kid.

 

So, if the bad guys can do it - and they do - why is it so hard to get good guys to carry guns that they can actually fight with? Carrying any handgun is already a compromise. They are notoriously bad at stopping fights. If I knew I was walking into a gunfight, I would either just stay home, or, I would bring long guns and all my friends with long guns. But that isn't practical because I don't have a crystal ball and I can't walk around everywhere with an AR sling to my chest. So, a handgun it is. I am not going to hamper my abilities further by carrying a gun with limited capacity, reduced ballistics, and is harder to shoot well.

 

Carrying a gun should be comforting, not necessarily always comfortable. So it's hot out? With the proper holster and belt you can easily conceal a Glock 19/23 sized pistol in shorts and a t-shirt. I do it all summer long, when I am not carrying a Glock 35 instead.

 

When you are in the mall with your family, and shots ring out, and you are having the worst day of your life, do you really want to be holding that tiny,blightweight, low capacity gun that you threw in your pocket because it is easy to carry? Or the full size pistol that you shoot every range trip, that is chambered in a caliber commonly accepted as being able to achieve the terminal ballistics required to stop a determined attacker (.38/.357, 9mm, .40, .45, .44), that you know you can shoot better than anything else in your safe? Even if you don't have to fire a single round, what is going to give you more confidence?

 

The whole justification for these little mouse guns of "The first rule of a gunfight is to have a gun" is bullshit.

 

The first rule of a gunfight is "Be prepared for a gunfight" - Carry the gun that you shoot the best, that is chambered in a reliable duty caliber, and can be concealed with reasonable efforts, and have the mindset and ability/training to use it effectively.

 

Mindset is paramount in all things self defense related. Carrying a gun is a life choice, and requires dedication. Set yourself up for success before leaving the house, because hope is not a tactic.

You are viewing this from an offensive POV. Most here view it from a defensive POV. I have very little confidence that in a public mass shooting scenario I will be able to:

Identify correctly without error

Rectify precisely without consequence

Entertain an undue burden to those charged with correcting these issues.

 

That is as of now.

More specific training, may change my perception.

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I don't know why there is so little love for the Beretta's and everyone wants Glocks or Sigs, but I feel it safest carrying a Beretta especially for someone new to carrying. One in the chamber safety off. It's just like carrying a revolver. First round is double action then single action. Nothing to mess with, little chance of accidental discharge.

 

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I don't like DA/SA. DAO I shoot well, single action I shoot well, but mixing the two messes me up.

 

Also for some reason society hates safeties nowadays.

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I don't like DA/SA. DAO I shoot well, single action I shoot well, but mixing the two messes me up.

 

Also for some reason society hates safeties nowadays.

That's the thing with the Beretta you leave the safety off so when carrying so there is no extra step involved. I understand the having to get used to the first round being DA but with practice it becomes second nature. Just my opinion.

 

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That's the thing with the Beretta you leave the safety off so when carrying so there is no extra step involved. I understand the having to get used to the first round being DA but with practice it becomes second nature. Just my opinion.

 

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Then how is that any different from a sig p22x? Except you don't have the slide mounted safety digging into you...

 

While I own one "carry" gun - LC9S pro - I would always prefer my Sig Pro 2022 or Glock 23 for EDC if I could. And if I ever get a glock 20, I might even carry that too... Sig fullsize p22x and 1911 tend to be a little heavy for comfortable carry for me, but only just. I feel a sp2022 or g19/g23 are the right balance of ease of use, weight, size, capacity, and capability. Hopefully I get to test this more fully in NJ in the near future...

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Then how is that any different from a sig p22x? Except you don't have the slide mounted safety digging into you...

 

While I own one "carry" gun - LC9S pro - I would always prefer my Sig Pro 2022 or Glock 23 for EDC if I could. And if I ever get a glock 20, I might even carry that too... Sig fullsize p22x and 1911 tend to be a little heavy for comfortable carry for me, but only just. I feel a sp2022 or g19/g23 are the right balance of ease of use, weight, size, capacity, and capability. Hopefully I get to test this more fully in NJ in the near future...

I don't know enough about them to answer intelligently, but the safety has never bothered me on a Beretta. I was just curious why Beretta gets so little love being the Military used it for so long. WWI-WWII Pistols I can give a much better answer.

 

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I don't know enough about them to answer intelligently, but the safety has never bothered me on a Beretta. I was just curious why Beretta gets so little love being the Military used it for so long. WWI-WWII Pistols I can give a much better answer.

 

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Google Sig 4 point safety system.  

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I've always liked Berettas, always wanted a 92/M9 or 96 or maybe 85? (compact one), but over time, I got more and more into Sigs. I just now happen to have 4 Sigs.

 

Fun fact - first gun I ever shot was a suppressed M9. Unless you count a blank firing pistol, which is a 92 clone in 8mm.

 

My first gun was a Sig P226R da/sa, and while a great gun, I certainly notice it when I carry it. It has been a while since I held a Beretta, but I remember them being fairly heavy (the blank pistol certainly is), which, along with size, I imagine would make a lot of people shy away from carrying one. Look at the popularity of those little mouse guns these days - the LC9S is as small as Id ever want to go. I still want a Beretta, just haven't focused as much on pistols in NJ.

 

Plus the Seals use Sigs, so you become an operator if you have a Sig!

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Can someone define carry gun for me? Seriously. What makes a gun a carry gun? For that matter, what makes a gun not a carry gun?

 

I can carry and I do, always. I usually carry a BUG as well.

 

I don't own a handgun I can't carry, and I often carry a Glock 35 with an X300u off duty.

Didn't mean to ruffle your feathers bro. I guess maybe for you, every gun is a carry gun. For me, not the case. I'm sure you could read between the lines that I am referring to concealed carry.

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Here's a reality of life:

 

Bad guys routinely carry and conceal big guns. 1911s, full size Glocks, big revolvers - including a black powder Walker Colt replica (unloaded, but he still carried it and threatened people with it. He concealed it well, and if he didn't exhibit other traits of a person carrying a gun, you wouldn't know it by looking at him this he had the smoke wagon in his waistband) I took off some idiot kid.

 

So, if the bad guys can do it - and they do - why is it so hard to get good guys to carry guns that they can actually fight with? Carrying any handgun is already a compromise. They are notoriously bad at stopping fights. If I knew I was walking into a gunfight, I would either just stay home, or, I would bring long guns and all my friends with long guns. But that isn't practical because I don't have a crystal ball and I can't walk around everywhere with an AR sling to my chest. So, a handgun it is. I am not going to hamper my abilities further by carrying a gun with limited capacity, reduced ballistics, and is harder to shoot well.

 

Carrying a gun should be comforting, not necessarily always comfortable. So it's hot out? With the proper holster and belt you can easily conceal a Glock 19/23 sized pistol in shorts and a t-shirt. I do it all summer long, when I am not carrying a Glock 35 instead.

 

When you are in the mall with your family, and shots ring out, and you are having the worst day of your life, do you really want to be holding that tiny,blightweight, low capacity gun that you threw in your pocket because it is easy to carry? Or the full size pistol that you shoot every range trip, that is chambered in a caliber commonly accepted as being able to achieve the terminal ballistics required to stop a determined attacker (.38/.357, 9mm, .40, .45, .44), that you know you can shoot better than anything else in your safe? Even if you don't have to fire a single round, what is going to give you more confidence?

 

The whole justification for these little mouse guns of "The first rule of a gunfight is to have a gun" is bullshit.

 

The first rule of a gunfight is "Be prepared for a gunfight" - Carry the gun that you shoot the best, that is chambered in a reliable duty caliber, and can be concealed with reasonable efforts, and have the mindset and ability/training to use it effectively.

 

Mindset is paramount in all things self defense related. Carrying a gun is a life choice, and requires dedication. Set yourself up for success before leaving the house, because hope is not a tactic.

Well I guess depending on really what you're going for, for me at 5'5" and owning a Glock 19, unless I wore some pretty baggy clothes a 19 would print at some point. What's the point of concealed carry if it's gonna show? I totally get "Be prepared for a gunfight" but the thread was a simple question. I think most people on here got what I meant referring to compact/sub-compact pistols. I guess I should have been more clear.

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There are a ton of options between "mouse guns" and full size guns.

Yeah, I know. Personally, anything G26/Shield size is my lowest limit for a suitable fighting gun, with a strong preference for something larger whenever possible. I personally consider anything G19 sized and bigger a duty/full size gun. YMMV.

 

HE, I may have asked this before, but what is the nicest gun you ever found?

Most guns carried by bad guys are garbage. I did get an original Colt 1911 (not an A1) marked US Govt Property from WW1 once. That broke my heart as it was going to end up being destroyed. It had character.

 

We had a few decent revolvers, one was a Colt Cobra.

 

While I agree with your points, in NJ, we still have a duty to retreat.

Hopefully, we will get a stand your ground law, but until then, fighting back will be an issue.

You have a duty to retreat, when it is safe to do so. That doesn't mean you shouldn't be prepared to not retreat and duke it out if you have to. And, my comments weren't NJ exclusive. I see the same remarks by gun owners and CCW holders everywhere regarding carrying the most comfortable gun.

 

You are viewing this from an offensive POV. Most here view it from a defensive POV. I have very little confidence that in a public mass shooting scenario I will be able to:

Identify correctly without error

Rectify precisely without consequence

Entertain an undue burden to those charged with correcting these issues.

 

That is as of now.

More specific training, may change my perception.

Carrying any handgun is initially a defensive act - If you were going on offense, you would have brought a rifle.

 

That being said, once the bullets start flying, there is no defensive use of any firearm. You win or you lose and no defense has ever won anything. Only hits count and you get hits by shooting well. Have the gun you shoot best available to you when you need it, even if you don't end up firing a shot.

 

Well I guess depending on really what you're going for, for me at 5'5" and owning a Glock 19, unless I wore some pretty baggy clothes a 19 would print at some point. What's the point of concealed carry if it's gonna show? I totally get "Be prepared for a gunfight" but the thread was a simple question. I think most people on here got what I meant referring to compact/sub-compact pistols. I guess I should have been more clear.

No feathers ruffled bro. I just saw your post as the perfect way to make a point. All guns are carry guns. Hell, a retired Chief I know in Middlesex county carries a Desert Eagle as his CCW - I think that's rediculous, but he does it and he conceals it well. He isn't a big guy either, he just chooses his holster, belt, and wardrobe appropriately

 

I'm short too - 5'6" 180 (uses to be lighter, damn donuts). I have a partner at work that is 5'5" and weighs around 150. He conceals a Glock 22 with X300U all year in all weather conditions while off duty. Along with a flashlight, knife, and restraints. His mindset is - He will win, He will set himself up for success, He won't be caught unprepared.

 

If you want to do it, it isn't hard. You just have to want to do it.

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That's the thing with the Beretta you leave the safety off so when carrying so there is no extra step involved. I understand the having to get used to the first round being DA but with practice it becomes second nature. Just my opinion.

 

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For the record, I like safeties.

 

Getting used to that first round is what screws me up. I shoot revolvers best and I'm best in DA.

 

I actually shoot the Beretta well. I like them.

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For the record, I like safeties.

 

Getting used to that first round is what screws me up. I shoot revolvers best and I'm best in DA.

 

I actually shoot the Beretta well. I like them.

I like Revolvers as well. They go bang everytime and tough to beat a .357 for stopping power and accuracy.

 

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There are few pistols I wouldn't be able to carry. But 6'2" probably gives me a little extra real-estate. But I would be more comfortable carrying a larger than needed pistol than a smaller than normal pistol. My threshold is right around the G19/HK P2k mark. My reasoning is that I want to be able to shoot fast and accurately. I don't feel I can do that well enough when the pistol reaches a certain point of smallness I can no longer grip well. I don't have huge hands but they are probably a little bigger than most.

I don't know why there is so little love for the Beretta's and everyone wants Glocks or Sigs, but I feel it safest carrying a Beretta especially for someone new to carrying. One in the chamber safety off. It's just like carrying a revolver. First round is double action then single action. Nothing to mess with, little chance of accidental discharge.

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 Because the safety is backwards for one!!!! Aside from that your comment about little chance of ND is inaccurate to some degree. (Correct term is ND if its operator error) An issue with decocker pistols is when people make the mistake of forgetting to decock or put the safety on (which may be something to consider in your manual of arms as possibly a bad habit to not use) and go to reholster with the finger on the trigger = the bad noise. This information is excerpted from the logs of a high volume training facility that kept records of ND's. The actual decocker pistol most common for this was Sig(Iikely seen in much greater numbers than the Berretta) but obviously the same concern applies. IIRC it was the most common ND. So being the most common ND would imply the system does not constitute a manual of arms that leaves little chance of a ND.

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I guess I should have said accidental discharge.

 

Is the the reason for less ND when holstering because the trigger pull is heavier on the Beretta than the SIG? Or is it the design? Or just than more people own Sigs? My finger does not go near the trigger when holstering, but I have owned my Beretta 96 for 20+ years and carried almost daily for 2 years in the Carolinas. I also spend time practicing. Unfortunately most ranges don't allow firing from holster except for LEOS.

 

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Yeah, I know. Personally, anything G26/Shield size is my lowest limit for a suitable fighting gun, with a strong preference for something larger whenever possible. I personally consider anything G19 sized and bigger a duty/full size gun. YMMV.

Most guns carried by bad guys are garbage. I did get an original Colt 1911 (not an A1) marked US Govt Property from WW1 once. That broke my heart as it was going to end up being destroyed. It had character.

We had a few decent revolvers, one was a Colt Cobra.

You have a duty to retreat, when it is safe to do so. That doesn't mean you shouldn't be prepared to not retreat and duke it out if you have to. And, my comments weren't NJ exclusive. I see the same remarks by gun owners and CCW holders everywhere regarding carrying the most comfortable gun.

Carrying any handgun is initially a defensive act - If you were going on offense, you would have brought a rifle.

That being said, once the bullets start flying, there is no defensive use of any firearm. You win or you lose and no defense has ever won anything. Only hits count and you get hits by shooting well. Have the gun you shoot best available to you when you need it, even if you don't end up firing a shot.

No feathers ruffled bro. I just saw your post as the perfect way to make a point. All guns are carry guns. Hell, a retired Chief I know in Middlesex county carries a Desert Eagle as his CCW - I think that's rediculous, but he does it and he conceals it well. He isn't a big guy either, he just chooses his holster, belt, and wardrobe appropriately

I'm short too - 5'6" 180 (uses to be lighter, damn donuts). I have a partner at work that is 5'5" and weighs around 150. He conceals a Glock 22 with X300U all year in all weather conditions while off duty. Along with a flashlight, knife, and restraints. His mindset is - He will win, He will set himself up for success, He won't be caught unprepared.

If you want to do it, it isn't hard. You just have to want to do it.

Well I would LOVE to do it, but not in NJ LOL. Fair enough, and clearly I've never carried so this was an assumption on my part. We're pretty much the same build (I have you by a few pounds). My first order of business is some training.

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I believe its because more people field sigs but the point was they are both susceptible to the same issue and thus the same concern. In the name of making sure Im clear, a negligent discharge is mainly attributed to operator error. An accidental discharge is mainly attributed to a mechanical failure/malfunction.

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