Jump to content
JHZR2

Cut magazine springs

Recommended Posts

Ive literally spent hours reading discussion on NJ LCM rules. Ive read the njsp documents... but I cant seem to find anything specifically on the following:

 

If one were to take >15 round magazines, and put a shorter spring, or cut the spring length down, wouldn't this be a permanent alteration? There would then need to be a solid means of supporting the spring at the bottom, because if not, you couldnt really load the thing at all.

 

Im tempted to take one of my 10 round pmag innards out to PA to see how to fit in the larger mags that my brother has. Id rather have 15 than 10, but I have the spring so its easier than arbitrarily cutting something.

 

I could try metal mags and pmags this way to see what is better.

 

It seems that this is a no brainer solution. Rivets or pins or epoxy or blocks aside, if the spring is too short its too short. Then any solid in the bottom would need to be there to raise the spring. Any modification removing that block would make it useless. Therefore it woukd be permanent without acquiring a new spring or mag, either of which would be illegal in nj.

 

Am I missing something that makes this a ridiculous feat?

 

It seems that all blocked higher capacity mags retain the full spring and block the follower.

 

What am I missing??

 

I personally prefer 20rd mag length in an ar from aesthetic and utility (placing it on something, resting on the mag) perspectives. I dont like 30, and currently use 10s. But i like the idea of cut 20s. I know PK90 sells 15/20 pmags, but not sure if the spring is permanently modified.

 

Thanks!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's not really permanent. If you wanted to, you could buy a replacement spring and bring it back to full capacity. You would have to epoxy the floorplate after blocking.

 

Instead of measuring a block and shaping it to fit under a cut spring, an easier solution is to go here:

http://www.magazineblocks.com/magento/gen-m3-pmag-mcl-15-30-block-new-15-round-limiter.html

 

Install the block then epoxy the floorplate on.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's not really permanent. If you wanted to, you could buy a replacement spring and bring it back to full capacity. You would have to epoxy the floorplate after blocking.

 

Instead of measuring a block and shaping it to fit under a cut spring, an easier solution is to go here:

http://www.magazineblocks.com/magento/gen-m3-pmag-mcl-15-30-block-new-15-round-limiter.html

 

Install the block then epoxy the floorplate on.

It seems like many of these threads just turn into arguing points of view... So upfront Im NOT trying to be a jerk or be argumentative for the sake of arguing...

 

So Id say that the magblock with an LCM and full size spring is LESS permanent, even if pinned, epoxied, etc...  

 

If I have "A" magazine (i.e. one, or I suppose it could be if you have more than one but all are altered), and I cut the spring, it is permanently altered.  Unfortunately any DA can probably "what if" you to death, but NJ will never change the fact that other states dont regulate LCMs.  So... if I cut the spring on one, and then I wanted an LCM, Id either have to acquire new parts, or acquire another LCM to use for parts.  The former is questionable based upon intent, the latter is a felony as it is.

 

Therein lies the differentiator.  Putting a block into an LCM with a full length spring, means that it can be reverted.  Riveting the follower to not go below a certain point, with the full length spring, means it can be reverted.  Yes, we talk about pins, rivets, and epoxy, but all of those can be undone with some level of workmanship, and when undone, the spring is present that the magazine can still properly feed the gun.

 

It seems like the language in the statutes is that an LCM must be able to feed the weapon.  Therein lies the differentiation, if I cut the spring, without a solid spacer in the bottom, the spring would just fall to the bottom, and be unable to feed.  Anything can be fixed back, but this permanently alters the item that actually allows the magazine to feed the weapon.  Anything else can be reverted with the parts IN the magazine... This cant be.  If someone was to buy replacement parts, they would be buying a new magazine or an item that when placed into the LCM would revert it... But it would require acquisition, versus just remanufacture and reversion with all the parts in place.  

 

Seems like cutting is permanently altered, if you cut the spring and throw away the rest...

 

Otherwise NO alteration besides cutting down the mag body to only hold 15 rounds or less is acceptable.  Because then anything that could house more than 15 rounds will always be able to feed more than 15 rounds back... with reversion...

 

Just thinking out loud... This is why I use 10 round mags in my M4... 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

http://www.primaryarms.com/hexmag-15-30-15-round-magazine-series-2-blk-hx1530-ar15s2-blk

cant beat this for $7.99

FWIW, i don't care for them, buy living in NJ, you can't beat this. I rather have a pmag or Lancers.

 

Thanks!  Ive seen these in LGS.

 

Do you know if these hexmags are either cast to only take 15 rounds, pinned, blocked, or what?  

 

If the plastic was cast in a way that there is material for the entire length and width of the channel that the follower rides in, so it was solid below the point, that would require machining or other substantial new work to make it viable.  That's different than undoing something.  

 

Better would be a 20 or 30 round size with a solid floor or a false floor so the spring was only sized for 15, which is essentially my theory above...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I still think cutting a spring is bad on a few levels.

 

It is not permanent (all you need is 5 seconds to install a $3.50 part and it is back to full capacity). Caveat - unless you epoxy the floorplate on, or permanently attach it another way. I agree a rivet is not permanent.

 

It imagine it will be fairy time consuming to make the block fit properly in the mag to support the shortened spring.

 

Properly functioning mags are supremely important to the function of an AR (Any semi-auto firearm really) . I can track 75% of the malfunctions in my shooters directly back to bad mags. Sometimes it's the feed lips, often times it's weak mag springs. Springs are designed to work as a whole, not coil by coil. If I cut off 1 coil from a mag spring, will the single coil exert the same amount of force when compressed as the entire uncut spring did? Will the 15 remaining coils on the now cut magazine spring be as strong as the uncut spring was? How about if I cut 2 coils off? How about 3? I don't believe for a second that a cut spring will be as reliable as a full spring and I predict using one will cause feeding issues.

 

Using a true 15 round mag spring over a block would be reliable.

 

The mag block I linked to above installed in a Pmag with the floorplate epoxied on is 100% permanent in the eyes of NJSP. The only way to get the block out would be to destroy the magazine.

 

They only cost $4.50 and install in seconds.

 

Search this site for HexMag reliability issues. Seems they can be problematic.

 

Your mags, your process. Good luck,

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The mag block I linked to above installed in a Pmag with the floorplate epoxied on is 100% permanent in the eyes of NJSP. The only way to get the block out would be to destroy the magazine.

 

They only cost $4.50 and install in seconds.

 

Search this site for HexMag reliability issues. Seems they can be problematic.

 

Your mags, your process. Good luck,

 

Where has this been established at law?  Is it established that epoxy is deemed permanent within the law, and then guidance provided to/by NJSP that presence of epoxy is an acceptable test of permanence?

 

Ive not seen this documented at law and by any specific guidance from NJSP.  Im happy to be wrong, but Im not sure that I am...

 

Im using 10 round mags as a result...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

hexmagriser.jpg

 

OK, so this is essentially what I was getting at.  Pin or no pin, regardless of what else would be done, if you remove the riser, the parts cannot be used to feed more than 15 rounds.  

 

Ill bet you can buy a full length spring for this one too... just like you could go to DE or PA and buy a new 30 round.. But you cannot revert this thing back to load more than 15 rounds in any way without buying parts or a new magazine.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Food for thought JHZR2:

1. A Glock 19 mag will fit 16 rounds and function.

2. A Glock 22 magazine will hold 17 rounds of 9mm and function.

3. Most mag followers can be cut to allow an extra round.

4. When a mag is altered to a 15 round capacity, the intent is to comply with the law.

5. If a mag is sold as a 15 rounder, it is a 15 rounder, even if you can force a 16th in.

 

Sent from an undisclosed location

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Food for thought JHZR2:

1. A Glock 19 mag will fit 16 rounds and function.

2. A Glock 22 magazine will hold 17 rounds of 9mm and function.

3. Most mag followers can be cut to allow an extra round.

4. When a mag is altered to a 15 round capacity, the intent is to comply with the law.

5. If a mag is sold as a 15 rounder, it is a 15 rounder, even if you can force a 16th in.

 

Sent from an undisclosed location

Thank you.  Key term may be "sold".  

 

So if I buy something molded and marked for 15, and assembled with the intent to comply, its a 15.  

 

If one does a DIY job, no matter how good or true to holding 15, it may not hold water.  

 

But Ive seen 15/30 type mags, at LGSs that can be disassembled, yet are sold as NJ legal 15/30...  

 

The issue of "permanent" is more of the crux of the matter to me... I guess.

 

Not that Ive ever been questioned by anyone, nor am I prone to being stopped by police for other matters... But compliance to the law is important to me.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If anyone here is an EXPERT on blocked mags, it's Paul (PK90)! As he stated, "If a mag is sold as a 15 rounder, it is a 15 rounder, even if you can force a 16th"

 

If you bought a blocked mag from a shop in the PRNJ, he most likely did the work! So just keep your receipts when you buy the blocked mags and don't overthink this!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If anyone here is an EXPERT on blocked mags, it's Paul (PK90)! As he stated, "If a mag is sold as a 15 rounder, it is a 15 rounder, even if you can force a 16th"

 

If you bought a blocked mag from a shop in the PRNJ, he most likely did the work! So just keep your receipts when you buy the blocked mags and don't overthink this!

 

This is correct. We had an issue of some hexmags holding 16rnds.. Spoke to NJSP and was told if its manufactured to hold 15 but can hold more its the users who makes it illegal by putting more then 15, the mag itself is legal.

 

they even mentioned the fact plenty of factory handgun mags will hold a 16th and function.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.



×
×
  • Create New...