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NJ <--> PA Concealed Carry Logistics

Concealed Carry Logistics

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#1 oldguysrule649

oldguysrule649
  • LocationMiddletown
  • Home Range:Garden State Shooting Center

Posted 07 February 2017 - 05:10 PM

I am an experienced NJ firearms owner and shooter,  but am a concealed carry novice.  Recently obtained my NH non-resident permit, and within 6 weeks also expect to receive my Texas non-resident License to Carry(for details on that, see my thread in the Training section.). So am covered as far as permits for PA are concerned.

 

My goal in the coming months is to conceal carry my handgun in Pennsylvania.   This will be my first experience with conceal carry.  Hence being very careful about it as I learn and develop experience.

My question here specifically relates to logistics upon crossing the border into Pa and similarly when later crossing back into NJ.   I would appreciate hearing others advice based on their experience.

Pardon what might appear to be very basic questions or of undue concern.  Afterall, I do in live in “no unreasonable deviation NJ” where I have to worry about bathroom breaks.

 

So let’s say I drive into PA on, for example,  Route 78.  Where is the best place (e.g. rest area) to pull into.  I am familiar with the rest area/visitors center just over the border.  Should I stop there?  Is it fine to retrieve my gun bag from the trunk and load the mag & transition it to my holster while inside my vehicle.  Or is it preferred to do so in a rest room stall.

 

The flipside is when returning, where along Rt 78 should I transition the gun back to the trunk before hitting the bridge into NJ?  Is there a rest area on the Pa side near the border?  Would not want to accidently find myself crossing back into NJ before doing so.

 

(I am also separately addressing the holster for my Glock 26,  gun belt, larger jeans, training,  etc. aspects.)

 

Any and all advice and suggestions welcome.  My goal will be to spend an afternoon anywhere in PA doing some photography, shopping, etc.  Perhaps do a “Wally Walk”, which I just learned yesterday is a conceal carry right of passage.

 

Thank you,  Art

 


<p>Member: NRA, NJ2AS, SAF, and ANJRPC

#2 sota

sota
  • LocationBerkeley Heights
  • Home Range:SCFGPA

Posted 07 February 2017 - 05:17 PM

I generally wait until I make my first planned stop someplace after crossing the border. Deliberately pulling over someplace just to gat up seems a bit unnecessary.

You really need to re-think what you're saying when mipafox is making more sense than you are


#3 JohnnyB

JohnnyB
  • LocationGloucester County, PRNJ
  • Home Range:U.S.A.N.A.

Posted 07 February 2017 - 05:54 PM

I have my FL and NH non resident CCWs and have carried in PA and Delaware. It was strange at first, I was so afraid of printing and just nervous about every aspect at first.

I got used to it and I have a routine now.

 

I place my unloaded pistol in a closed box in my trunk with my stapler, ears and a copy of the info for a range in PA. The loaded mags in a separate box.

once I cross the border, I load up and holster my weapon when I get to my first stop. I an extra careful to reverse the process when I leave my last stop

before crossing the bridge back into the PRNJ.

 

I have not done the Wally Walk yet but did spend an afternoon packing in the Christiana Mall in Delaware once. Upon leaving I saw the NO GUNS IN THIS MALL sign.

Oh well, live and learn. I won't repeat that mistake! I now try to look for the carry rules at stores before leaving my house so I can plan accordingly. 

Cabela's at Christiana Mall is cool with carry as long as you are not printing and NEVER show or remove your weapon for ANY reason, like to try it in a new holster.


"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety"
Benjamin Franklin

 

Proud Member,

NJ2AS
NRA


 


#4 Jfoster99

Jfoster99
  • Home Range:ANJRPC

Posted 07 February 2017 - 06:45 PM

I generally wait until I make my first planned stop someplace after crossing the border. Deliberately pulling over someplace just to gat up seems a bit unnecessary.

^This is what do as well... no need for special stops... perhaps if I was driving down to Florida but even then I would do it at the first required fuel/bathroom stop not a specific stop to holster up.

Discretely bring the firearm from the trunk to the passenger compartment and saddle up... I often pocket carry a small .380 in PA so I can place it in my pocket while standing outside the vehicle and vice versa when putting it back in the trunk with out attracting attention. The point is you need to be discrete. Alway assume someone is watching you...

#5 brucin

brucin
  • LocationMorris County NJ/Fulton County NY
  • Home Range:RTSP/Caroga Fish and Game Club

Posted 07 February 2017 - 08:38 PM

I wear my IWB holster when I leave my home in NJ. Like others have said I keep everything Jersey legal till I make a stop In PA then as discretely as possible gear up. I also have a PA state range permit so I can carry proper self defense ammo without being outside of an exemption.

 

I reverse the process on the way back.


Armed citizens take responsibility for their own security, thereby exhibiting and cultivating the self-reliance and vigorous spirit that ultimately are indispensable for genuine self-government. "Nelson Lund"


#6 JohnnyB

JohnnyB
  • LocationGloucester County, PRNJ
  • Home Range:U.S.A.N.A.

Posted 07 February 2017 - 09:20 PM

Brucin,

 

Is the ammo reference due to not having a CCW for PA? I have a NH license which has reciprocity with PA, at least for now.

Should I have any concerns about the ammo I carry?

 

I would also love to know definitively if Hornady Critical Duty ammo is considered to be hollow point ammo in the PRNJ.


"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety"
Benjamin Franklin

 

Proud Member,

NJ2AS
NRA


 


#7 Heavyopp

Heavyopp
  • LocationMiddlesex
  • Home Range:Clinton - OBRPC

Posted 07 February 2017 - 09:38 PM

How about if you join the easton range --  Then you really are satisfying the NJ requirements of taking your handgun to the range

 

Go there and holster up and continue your day or hang out and shoot some before heading out

 

one stop on the way home just a few minutes from the NJ border and you're good to come back 



#8 67gtonut

67gtonut
  • LocationRockaway, NJ
  • Home Range:RTSP

Posted 08 February 2017 - 12:30 AM

 

I have not done the Wally Walk yet but did spend an afternoon packing in the Christiana Mall in Delaware once. Upon leaving I saw the NO GUNS IN THIS MALL sign.

Oh well, live and learn. I won't repeat that mistake!

 

 

Just realize....  you did NOT break ANY law....  you broke a rule of their property management and cannot be arrested for it. The most they can do is ask you to leave, if you refuse then you can be charged with trespassing ....


Troy

Instructor RTSP - Randolph

NRA ENDOWMENT MEMBER


#9 oldguysrule649

oldguysrule649
  • LocationMiddletown
  • Home Range:Garden State Shooting Center

Posted 08 February 2017 - 07:35 AM

How about if you join the easton range --  Then you really are satisfying the NJ requirements of taking your handgun to the range
 
Go there and holster up and continue your day or hang out and shoot some before heading out
 
one stop on the way home just a few minutes from the NJ border and you're good to come back



I am in fact a member of EFGA although have only been there once do to the distance. Definitely a good option for the reasons you mentioned, especially for the return trip.
<p>Member: NRA, NJ2AS, SAF, and ANJRPC

#10 brucin

brucin
  • LocationMorris County NJ/Fulton County NY
  • Home Range:RTSP/Caroga Fish and Game Club

Posted 09 February 2017 - 11:13 PM

Brucin,

 

Is the ammo reference due to not having a CCW for PA? I have a NH license which has reciprocity with PA, at least for now.

Should I have any concerns about the ammo I carry?

 

I would also love to know definitively if Hornady Critical Duty ammo is considered to be hollow point ammo in the PRNJ.

NJ  has transport laws regarding hollow point or as I prefer to call it "self defense" ammo. You can only take it to and from a range or store where you purchased it much like a handgun. 

 

In the highly unlikely event of getting jammed up on the improper transport of hollow points law I can always say I stopped at one of the PA public ranges. Which I always do by the way.

 

Only NJ has the stupid laws regarding ammo. Carry what you prefer. 

 

I would put nothing past an overzealous prosecutor from NJ.


Armed citizens take responsibility for their own security, thereby exhibiting and cultivating the self-reliance and vigorous spirit that ultimately are indispensable for genuine self-government. "Nelson Lund"


#11 JohnnyB

JohnnyB
  • LocationGloucester County, PRNJ
  • Home Range:U.S.A.N.A.

Posted 10 February 2017 - 12:14 AM

NJ  has transport laws regarding hollow point or as I prefer to call it "self defense" ammo. You can only take it to and from a range or store where you purchased it much like a handgun. 

 

In the highly unlikely event of getting jammed up on the improper transport of hollow points law I can always say I stopped at one of the PA public ranges. Which I always do by the way.

 

Only NJ has the stupid laws regarding ammo. Carry what you prefer. 

 

I would put nothing past an overzealous prosecutor from NJ.

As you stated "You can only take it to and from a range or store where you purchased it much like a handgun". Since you are also in possession of a handgun,

what's the difference? I figure if I am transporting my handgun to PA or DE, I find a public range in a reasonable path from my home and the  bridge I cross, and if stopped,

that is where I am going. I am licensed to carry in both of those states so as long as I transport per PRNJ laws I feel I should be fine!

 

I have been carrying NATO ball ammo out of fear of getting jammed up here which is why I asked about the Hornady critical duty/carry ammo being regarded as HP or not in the PRNJ.


"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety"
Benjamin Franklin

 

Proud Member,

NJ2AS
NRA


 


#12 oldguysrule649

oldguysrule649
  • LocationMiddletown
  • Home Range:Garden State Shooting Center

Posted 10 February 2017 - 10:11 AM

Appreciate the feedback.  For my first time I will likely go to EFGA, do some shooting, then spend a few hours conceal carrying doing shopping, photography(my other hobby), etc.  For my return, will stop back to EFGA and store my firearm for travel back into NJ.

 

JohnnyB: my rationale for originally joining EFGA was similar to what you expressed.  I.e. if I am traveling West and get stopped, that's where I would be going. 


<p>Member: NRA, NJ2AS, SAF, and ANJRPC

#13 124gr9mm

124gr9mm
  • LocationMorris County
  • Home Range:Cherry Ridge, Riverdale

Posted 14 February 2017 - 02:53 PM

Seems like an awful lot of effort just to go out of your way to walk around with a concealed gun.

 

Not sure of the risk/reward balance here.



#14 brucin

brucin
  • LocationMorris County NJ/Fulton County NY
  • Home Range:RTSP/Caroga Fish and Game Club

Posted 14 February 2017 - 06:16 PM

Seems like an awful lot of effort just to go out of your way to walk around with a concealed gun.

 

Not sure of the risk/reward balance here.

Spoken like a good little subject. But to each his or her own.


Armed citizens take responsibility for their own security, thereby exhibiting and cultivating the self-reliance and vigorous spirit that ultimately are indispensable for genuine self-government. "Nelson Lund"


#15 124gr9mm

124gr9mm
  • LocationMorris County
  • Home Range:Cherry Ridge, Riverdale

Posted 14 February 2017 - 09:50 PM

Spoken like a good little subject. But to each his or her own

 

Huh?



#16 oldguysrule649

oldguysrule649
  • LocationMiddletown
  • Home Range:Garden State Shooting Center

Posted 14 February 2017 - 10:17 PM

Seems like an awful lot of effort just to go out of your way to walk around with a concealed gun.

Not sure of the risk/reward balance here.

For me, no effort at all compared to the sense of reward and satisfaction exercising a right which I am denied here in NJ.

Regards.

Btw, welcome to njgunforums.
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#17 Newtonian

Newtonian
  • LocationSussex County
  • Home Range:The Gallows

Posted 14 February 2017 - 11:12 PM

I think what you're doing is a good idea, to become comfortable with the practice. I am not at that stage, which is why I began a separate thread on training.

 

When I took the Utah license class the instructor spent significant time on various scenarios where a gun might be drawn. He advised us to make a mental list of situations and people for whose safety we would consider getting involved in the inevitable shit storm resulting from shooting somebody. He also mentioned that having a gun on you does not immunize you from trouble (one reason I could never understand the Almeida case but that's a different topic).

 

We're in a much better situation with regard to your original question than PA residents. You're transporting between exempt locations. When I first moved here my mechanic, who had a PA license, used to stop on the Milford side of the bridge and throw everything into the trunk. Only problem was his shop was not an exempt location (he was an employee). Bet you dollars to donuts that today the NJSP have a camera on their side just for situations like that. 


NRA, NJ2AS, NJARPC, Lamination Society of America

#18 mipafox

mipafox

Posted 15 February 2017 - 01:55 PM

Seems like an awful lot of effort just to go out of your way to walk around with a concealed gun.

Not sure of the risk/reward balance here.


The risk is zero. The reward is spending some time as an America.

Do whatever you want in PA. Nobody cares. Just worry about Jersey.

Whenever I am passing through NY, NJ, or MD I pull over the first convenient place (usually a welcome area) and arm up. Sometimes I'm not the only one.
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War Paint


#19 Newtonian

Newtonian
  • LocationSussex County
  • Home Range:The Gallows

Posted 15 February 2017 - 03:57 PM

Seems like an awful lot of effort just to go out of your way to walk around with a concealed gun.

 

Not sure of the risk/reward balance here.

It's fun. Adds another dimension to existing. Like being drunk on a beautiful sunny day.


NRA, NJ2AS, NJARPC, Lamination Society of America

#20 brucin

brucin
  • LocationMorris County NJ/Fulton County NY
  • Home Range:RTSP/Caroga Fish and Game Club

Posted 15 February 2017 - 04:48 PM

For me, no effort at all compared to the sense of reward and satisfaction exercising a right which I am denied here in NJ.

Regards.

Btw, welcome to njgunforums.

Exactly. 


Armed citizens take responsibility for their own security, thereby exhibiting and cultivating the self-reliance and vigorous spirit that ultimately are indispensable for genuine self-government. "Nelson Lund"


#21 mipafox

mipafox

Posted 15 February 2017 - 07:03 PM

Every good American wants to live free. Even if it is, unfortunately, only temporary for some of us. Or all of us depending on your standards.

War Paint


#22 brucin

brucin
  • LocationMorris County NJ/Fulton County NY
  • Home Range:RTSP/Caroga Fish and Game Club

Posted 15 February 2017 - 10:51 PM

Huh?

Apologies I did come off as condescending, I just feel that if you can exorcise your rights you should because if you don't than it's just a privilege.


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Armed citizens take responsibility for their own security, thereby exhibiting and cultivating the self-reliance and vigorous spirit that ultimately are indispensable for genuine self-government. "Nelson Lund"


#23 124gr9mm

124gr9mm
  • LocationMorris County
  • Home Range:Cherry Ridge, Riverdale

Posted 16 February 2017 - 10:34 AM

Apologies I did come off as condescending, I just feel that if you can exorcise your rights you should because if you don't than it's just a privilege.

 

No worries.

I spend about 99% of my life in-state, and my schedule is such that any "free time" I have (outside of work, chasing/transporting kids, wife, other family responsibilities, etc) is spent at the range, so a trip across state lines just to carry wouldn't be effective for me.  But that's just me.

I have an out of state carry permit for those rare occasions when on vacation/visiting a different state I can get in some range time and not have to worry so much about keeping a magazine stored separately from the gun (gasp)...in various layers of lock boxes...out of arm's reach of the driver...etc...etc



#24 Old Glock guy

Old Glock guy
  • Home Range:Cherry Ridge/GFH/Thunder Mountain

Posted 16 February 2017 - 02:28 PM

That's the first I've heard of the "Wally Walk."  Had to look it up.  Funny!

 

To the OP, good luck to you!  I carry whenever I can when I'm in Free America.  I plan to be armed when I'm in Florida in the near future.  



#25 kman

kman
  • LocationNorth New Jersey
  • Home Range:ANJRPC

Posted 16 February 2017 - 09:42 PM

Go carry in PA just so you can realize just how ordinary it is.  After a few times it becomes no big deal, and you really begin to wonder why people who have no familiarity with guns freak out so much at the idea of it.  

 

What is really awkward is when you have to find a place to stop on the way back, take it off, unload it and put it in the trunk just before you cross the border back to NJ.  Why?  There really is no reason why a government should make a decent person do such a thing.  

 

Think about that while you are putting it away in your trunk. It is ridiculous.


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#26 oldguysrule649

oldguysrule649
  • LocationMiddletown
  • Home Range:Garden State Shooting Center

Posted 23 February 2017 - 10:01 AM

Go carry in PA just so you can realize just how ordinary it is.  After a few times it becomes no big deal, and you really begin to wonder why people who have no familiarity with guns freak out so much at the idea of it.  

 

What is really awkward is when you have to find a place to stop on the way back, take it off, unload it and put it in the trunk just before you cross the border back to NJ.  Why?  There really is no reason why a government should make a decent person do such a thing.  

 

Think about that while you are putting it away in your trunk. It is ridiculous.

Your point is spot-on.  I have no doubt that having to remove the firearm (under threat of becoming imprisoned as a felon) before crossing back over the border will have me feeling acutely disrespected, oppressed by, and unwanted by, the state I was born, raised, and have grown up in.  Sad state of affairs.


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#27 oldguysrule649

oldguysrule649
  • LocationMiddletown
  • Home Range:Garden State Shooting Center

Posted 23 February 2017 - 10:39 AM

Thought I would update everyone on my baby steps in preparation for conceal carrying during an upcoming ride into PA.

 

-This week received my Texas "License to Carry Handgun" permit.  (For details, refer to my thread in the Training forum.) (I do realize my recently acquired NH permit would work fine as well.)

- I plan on carrying IWB.  Purchased a Bigfoot gun belt.  Their 1.5" width, 14oz, with steel band version. Excellent quality. I normally wear 34" jeans(well ok ok, my waistline is getting to be more like 36,lol) so ordered the belt in 40" length.  Perfect size. Glad I did not order the 38" size. The 40", with an IWB holster,  let me use the middle of the 7 belt holes.  So plenty of adjustment on either side of that hole.  Also bought a pair of 36" waist jeans to accommodate the holster.

- Purchased an Alien Gear 3.0 IWB holster and have been trying it around the house in various positions.

- Also have purchased, but not yet received a Vedder LightTuck Kydex IWB holster.  Will be trying that out as well. They both have a 30 day money back guarantee.  However, may keep both as there are pros and cons to each.

- So far I think I prefer Appendix carry as opposed to the 4:00 o'clock position. With the 4:00 position, I feel mentally uncomfortable. I find it awkward to draw, awkward to reholster, and most of all I cannot see/tell what is going on back there from a printing & concealment perspective. In contrast, these aspects all feel fine with the AIWB position.  However, the jury is still out with respect to physical comfort.    I need to try different AIWB positions(height, cant, etc.) to minimize the gun digging into my groin or ribcage.

- Lastly I plan to attend the Gun Law Seminar being held this evening at the VFW in Brick. It is being hosted by Garden State Shooting Center and U.S. Law Shield.  Any of you also signed up and planning to be there?


<p>Member: NRA, NJ2AS, SAF, and ANJRPC

#28 Lostboy

Lostboy

Posted 23 February 2017 - 10:22 PM

Hey guys! New here. Saw this topic and knew I had to get in on it. I just applied for my Utah and NH permits. I thought it was completely lawful to be on route to PA with your handgun stored in accordance with NJ law if that was your destination and you were licensed to legally carry there. I don't know if that goes for the NH reciprocity as well? I saw the one comment about wearing your holster during the drive... that seems like if you were to get pulled over and harassed they try to stick you with some sort of gun paraphernalia charge. (Half kidding.) When police pull you over isn't it their intent to put you (an innocent person with no criminal history) in jail by any means necessary? Lastly, good call on the "gun free" mall sign, that's like someone who slams a no parking sign in front of their house on the street. It can't actually be enforced unless it's a legal sign placed by the government. Once upon a time I was told by a prosecutor that a good percentage of stop signs are actually just placed without going through the correct channels. It's always a good idea to fight a failure to stop ticket. I don't know how true that is, but interesting and not surprising.

Happy to be here.
-Steve


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#29 oldguysrule649

oldguysrule649
  • LocationMiddletown
  • Home Range:Garden State Shooting Center

Posted 24 February 2017 - 07:44 AM

Welcome Steve,
I will chime in on several your points. Others can help further clarify if I mis-state anything. As always there are nuances to all of this that I will not address in the interest of brevity.

- You do not need a carry permit to travel out of NJ to another state. Federal law applies (FOPA). Of course your firearm needs to be properly stored in transit.
- Once in PA, it is helpful to have a carry permit from ANY state when transporting your firearm in your car. Otherwise you must be traveling directly to/from a range.
- You may open carry in Pa except for Phili. No carry permit needed.
- To conceal carry in Pa you need a carry permit recognized by Pa. (e.g. Texas, NH; but not Fl or Utah).
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#30 Darrenf

Darrenf
  • Home Range:Shooters LEH

Posted 24 February 2017 - 08:33 AM

Welcome Steve,
I will chime in on several your points. Others can help further clarify if I mis-state anything. As always there are nuances to all of this that I will not address in the interest of brevity.

- You do not need a carry permit to travel out of NJ to another state. Federal law applies (FOPA). Of course your firearm needs to be properly stored in transit.
- Once in PA, it is helpful to have a carry permit from ANY state when transporting your firearm in your car. Otherwise you must be traveling directly to/from a range.
- You may open carry in Pa except for Phili. No carry permit needed.
- To conceal carry in Pa you need a carry permit recognized by Pa. (e.g. Texas, NH; but not Fl or Utah).

 

With a carry permit that is recognized by PA, can you conceal carry in Phila?  I was told by a PA resident that you cannot, but I suspect he was confusing that you cannot carry on Phila parks with all of Phila.






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