Christie trying to improve gun carry regs (from the Record)

[Zeke 5,504]

I left out SAW. - working and enlightening a burgeoning market and future

[Luso 6]

The problem is all of those groups, barring maybe NJ2AS , are just social clubs. No legitmate progress can be attributed to them. If you want to get together and talk about how great 2A is, wonderful, have fun. If you want to win, you need to be attacking the enemy, not defending them or having secret conversations with them that year over year result in nothing

 

You don't win by arguing about guns, or talking about constitutional rhetoric. You win by using the language they already cherish and understand - racism, sexism, victmhood, patriarchy. You round up cameras, put them in loretta's face, and ask her "why are you supporting the genocide of your black constituents by denying them carry?" You shift the conversation away from guns and focus on race. She can ignore gun talk based on the demographics of where she lives, but she can't ignore a news story talking about her being racist. We all need to radically adjust our perception of what fighting in this world is.

 

This is war, and their resources vastly outnumber ours. It's like Belize trying to take over the United States military - it will never happen because toe-to-toe our arsenal and resources are profoundly superior. So you have to resort to guerrila tactics and disorient the enemy, not unlike Islamic terrorists do- they don't march in screaming with their entire brigade- they send a sneaky individual in and cause a minor disaster and disorient.

 

You need to send in people and create a cognitive association between guns and racism. Because that actually garners media attention. Your little 2A protests in Trenton or endless faxes and emails to your representatives do absolutely nothing - they ignore them. They admit they create outlook rules to delete any 2A emails. Stop wasting your time talking about guns, start ATTACKING the enemy with accusations and disorient them. Make it unpalatable for them to support anti-2A stances by associating it with racism and sexism - and all the other things progressives love.

 

Why was Carol Bowne a news story? Can any of you name 3 people murdered in Newark last year? No, but you know Carol Browne. It's a demographic story . It's tied to gender, and the inequality of her and her murderer. Embrace that radicalism and use it to your advantage. That is where the narrative needs to shift for us to win

[Zeke 5,504]

Ha!

I knew he was gonna be that guy!

[Zeke 5,504]

Here's the deal.

Anytime anyone tells me their way is the only way I tune out. If all of these groups could come together, it will implement change. On the precipice we are having people/ individuals/ our friends triying to accomplish things. However big or small. Then we have the podium takers and backseat drivers that plague the unsociable media of the intronet.

Luso , you are more like your buddy Roubian's bff Newtonian than you think.

 

The proof is in the pudding. Get you ass out there and do more shock jock vids. I spent 8 weeks getting to know my pd better.

It's always better to make friends, that's why my wife and I take new shooters every chance we can.

 

 

I'd be a fool to take on more responsibility with this constant penis gallery.

 

 

I'll part with this

" constructive criticism is best served whilst working hand in hand to fix the problem "

- my bud from MN

 

Cheers

[Newtonian 453]

I am not an expert in political campaigns but the only hope I see is to  pour resources into any NJ Districts that can be identified that are vulnerable for the Democrats.  There must be a few such swing districts.  Chip away at the margins, and try to make examples of people where possible.  It just might get at least a few politicians in Trenton thinking.  That plus continued PR campaigns, building more ranges, educating people about the gun issue -- trying to build or rebuild at least some "gun culture" in this state where just maybe someday a critical mass of motivated and informed voters could make a difference.

Holy shit this is a revolutionary idea. 

[Newtonian 453]

The problem is all of those groups, barring maybe NJ2AS , are just social clubs. No legitmate progress can be attributed to them. If you want to get together and talk about how great 2A is, wonderful, have fun. If you want to win, you need to be attacking the enemy, not defending them or having secret conversations with them that year over year result in nothing

 

You don't win by arguing about guns, or talking about constitutional rhetoric. You win by using the language they already cherish and understand - racism, sexism, victmhood, patriarchy. You round up cameras, put them in loretta's face, and ask her "why are you supporting the genocide of your black constituents by denying them carry?" You shift the conversation away from guns and focus on race. She can ignore gun talk based on the demographics of where she lives, but she can't ignore a news story talking about her being racist. We all need to radically adjust our perception of what fighting in this world is.

 

This is war, and their resources vastly outnumber ours. It's like Belize trying to take over the United States military - it will never happen because toe-to-toe our arsenal and resources are profoundly superior. So you have to resort to guerrila tactics and disorient the enemy, not unlike Islamic terrorists do- they don't march in screaming with their entire brigade- they send a sneaky individual in and cause a minor disaster and disorient.

 

You need to send in people and create a cognitive association between guns and racism. Because that actually garners media attention. Your little 2A protests in Trenton or endless faxes and emails to your representatives do absolutely nothing - they ignore them. They admit they create outlook rules to delete any 2A emails. Stop wasting your time talking about guns, start ATTACKING the enemy with accusations and disorient them. Make it unpalatable for them to support anti-2A stances by associating it with racism and sexism - and all the other things progressives love.

 

Why was Carol Bowne a news story? Can any of you name 3 people murdered in Newark last year? No, but you know Carol Browne. It's a demographic story . It's tied to gender, and the inequality of her and her murderer. Embrace that radicalism and use it to your advantage. That is where the narrative needs to shift for us to win

 

NJARPC at least does one thing right which is run what is on many levels the best range in the state. Your fave group has been a disaster, even before current leadership assumed its position. Lots of scowling and yelling, some nice free showers on hot summer days, but not much else.

 

And unfortunately the only outlets that covered Carol Browne were Fox and the usual suspects. The way she died holds no great significance to the news establishment or politicians in this state. Did it involve a black person? A trannsexual? Mexican? A lesbian couple? No? Was she killed by an illegal gun-wielding guy wrapped in a confederate flag? No? Then fuck you.

[Luso 6]

Here's the deal.

Anytime anyone tells me their way is the only way I tune out. If all of these groups could come together, it will implement change. On the precipice we are having people/ individuals/ our friends triying to accomplish things. However big or small. Then we have the podium takers and backseat drivers that plague the unsociable media of the intronet.

Luso , you are more like your buddy Roubian's bff Newtonian than you think.

 

The proof is in the pudding. Get you ass out there and do more shock jock vids. I spent 8 weeks getting to know my pd better.

It's always better to make friends, that's why my wife and I take new shooters every chance we can.

 

 

I'd be a fool to take on more responsibility with this constant penis gallery.

 

 

I'll part with this

" constructive criticism is best served whilst working hand in hand to fix the problem "

- my bud from MN

 

Cheers

Without me pontificating and name dropping like a douche, you'll have to take me at my word when I say I've had deep experience in the liberty movement. This isn't just relating to 2A - every group everywhere hates all like groups. They are competition for donor dollars. The NRA is a 501c4 business that just happens not to pay taxes. They protect that at all costs above all else, including being effective in NJ , where they decidedly are not , and there are reasons for that.

 

When you have a brand, you don't want to associate yourself with loss. That harms your brand. Fighting in NJ is an ugly, uphill battle that requires confrontation and metaphorical casualties along the way. Businesses are risk averse and protect their brands

 

You will never see ANjRPC drop a deuce on chris Christie. They are protecting their relationships, at the expense of being effective.

 

Saying things like "coming together" is laughable to someone who knows this world. If you talked to the 2A leaders behind closed doors, they are all sneering at their competitors fighting for the supposed same cause. They have no interest in coming together. Only idealists who don't know that world think that is possible, or that it even matters.

 

Moreover, there is no reason to "come together" with groups who aren't fighting the same battle you are. If you aren't attacking, you're defending. If we're defending, we are losing. It's very simple.

 

If I ever got the pleasure to meet you in person at an event, I would gladly shed light on what I'm talking about. But I've worked in that world, travelled the beltway, been to private donor events, seen the backdoor conversations ----there is no lovefest to be had. And you'd be shocked if you learned how little most groups care about their actual results, consequences, or mission statements. It's a business that doesn't pay taxes. No one wants to harm that when you have people's mortgages on the line

[mipafox 438]

Wow, sounds all cloak and dagger.

 

There is some truth to it, but when the chips are down, the people that bring the money, people, and lawyers are always welcome to the party. Often to a fault.

 

Sincerely,

 

Behind the Closed Door

[brucin 923]

It's not Randolph, it's Dover, Lk Hiawatha and Parsippany, without a doubt. Randolph is definitely conservative.

Randolph went for Hillary. I was pretty surprised.

[DeerSlayer 241]

Randolph went for Hillary. I was pretty surprised.

That's unfathomable to me.

[Parker 213]

If the story of Dustin Friedland didn't galvanize the pro-gun community, and get the others thinking about self-defense; nothing will here in New Jersey. 

 

The trial has begun: http://www.northjersey.com/story/news/crime/2017/03/15/widow-recounts-fatal-short-hills-mall-carjacking-trial/99227300/

[Old Glock guy 1,127]

Wouldn't it be amazing if NJ's one million gun owners could somehow be transformed from the downtrodden minority that we are, into a powerful voting bloc?

 

Luso, good to see you back here again.  I think it's been more like two years.  At that time you led an "Apply to be Denied" movement in conjunction with NJ2AS.  We were told by Scott Bach and other prominent people in the 2A community that we "shouldn't poke the bear," because big changes were in the works.  The only change I've seen is that it's now two years later, and I'm two years older and still can't carry in NJ.

[Fred2 367]

The big change is going to be National Reciprocity.

That's the only way we are going to carry in NJ

[Fred2 367]

As an aside,

 

Has anyone applied for a CCW based on Serious Threats?

 

I would think that since a business owner can carry on his property, it would a no brainier that they would have the same reason to carry outside his or her business.

[Newtonian 453]

Without me pontificating and name dropping like a douche, you'll have to take me at my word when I say I've had deep experience in the liberty movement. This isn't just relating to 2A - every group everywhere hates all like groups. They are competition for donor dollars. The NRA is a 501c4 business that just happens not to pay taxes. They protect that at all costs above all else, including being effective in NJ , where they decidedly are not , and there are reasons for that.

 

When you have a brand, you don't want to associate yourself with loss. That harms your brand. Fighting in NJ is an ugly, uphill battle that requires confrontation and metaphorical casualties along the way. Businesses are risk averse and protect their brands

 

You will never see ANjRPC drop a deuce on chris Christie. They are protecting their relationships, at the expense of being effective.

 

Saying things like "coming together" is laughable to someone who knows this world. If you talked to the 2A leaders behind closed doors, they are all sneering at their competitors fighting for the supposed same cause. They have no interest in coming together. Only idealists who don't know that world think that is possible, or that it even matters.

 

Moreover, there is no reason to "come together" with groups who aren't fighting the same battle you are. If you aren't attacking, you're defending. If we're defending, we are losing. It's very simple.

 

If I ever got the pleasure to meet you in person at an event, I would gladly shed light on what I'm talking about. But I've worked in that world, travelled the beltway, been to private donor events, seen the backdoor conversations ----there is no lovefest to be had. And you'd be shocked if you learned how little most groups care about their actual results, consequences, or mission statements. It's a business that doesn't pay taxes. No one wants to harm that when you have people's mortgages on the line

To a some degree I know what you're saying. I became somewhat active in the "liberty movement" 27 years ago. The self-described "patriots" I hung with had nothing to do with establishment rights organizations, which is a major reason why I'm so cynical of NRA and the Yellow Shirt Shower boys. Extend constitutional carry to driving, money, marriage, education, etc. and that's the world in which these absolutely wonderful people operated.

 

I take objection to your criticism of ANJRPC, however. I haven't read their charter but I've met and heard Scott Bach speak 3-4 times. As I see it their job is to promote gun rights, training, and use within the moral cesspool known as NJ. And that they do very well. I don't see them as a significant legal player although Bach has done us all an incredible service by working on NH non-resident licenses. They don't have the staff or resources. I'm still trying to figure out how they can only charge $225 a year for Cherry Ridge ($140 for seniors). 

 

The other organizations are small potatoes. Which is why IMO they should team up with Gottlieb's national group and work on education, public awareness, and NJ elections. I would volunteer to help them with elbow grease and $$ but I'm not wasting a minute of my time on bullshit. So much can be done on the cheap. For example I've been having an ongoing dialog with an anti-gun reporter who's written against the Hudson bill. I think I'm making progress. He was actually surprised to see that my "NRA distorted self-serving lies" were actually statistics from the Census and the FBI. 

 

I should also point out to you, as I've written here many times, that dropping deuces on the only person in the state who can help at this point is childish and self-defeating. Do you want something tangible or would you rather get a hardon from belittling people? We have to get out of this defeatist mindset and attack this big, big problem -- as Zeke the Mysterious pointed out -- by taking small, attainable bites. 

[EX Carnival man 223]

As an aside,

 

Has anyone applied for a CCW based on Serious Threats?

 

I would think that since a business owner can carry on his property, it would a no brainier that they would have the same reason to carry outside his or her business.

You would think but than again we are dealing with the State of NJ. I'm very cautious when I walk out of my business at night.  

[xXxplosive 824]

......only way I see it is if NJ can attach a huge Permit Fee to it..$K...they are now denouncing road side memorials saying the state will provide a sign for a FEE...........everything here in NJ has a Permit, a Fee or Monies attached to it so the NJ Democrats will always have a standing cash account......this State/Swamp also needs to be drained....OMO.

[Luso 6]

Wouldn't it be amazing if NJ's one million gun owners could somehow be transformed from the downtrodden minority that we are, into a powerful voting bloc?

 

Luso, good to see you back here again. I think it's been more like two years. At that time you led an "Apply to be Denied" movement in conjunction with NJ2AS. We were told by Scott Bach and other prominent people in the 2A community that we "shouldn't poke the bear," because big changes were in the works. The only change I've seen is that it's now two years later, and I'm two years older and still can't carry in NJ.

Good to hear from you bud - you get it. It's not that i care ANJRPC "raises awareness to shooting sports" or runs a range. That's fine. It's that they pay out a 6 figure salary, for the figurehead to tell other groups not to "poke the bear" on his beloved relationships. What is he preserving? Nothing changes year over year. A year from now, we will have a democrat in the governor's mansion. What did it help us to play defense for 8 years and not upset Christie? If anything, you should have been annihilating him while he still had the prospect of getting re-elected. The mentality of these groups is backawards.

 

If you are making a 6 figure salary and during your tenure, your accomplishments are "we've endured 100 different gun control bills in our legislature, and we stopped 5 of them!!!!" That's not winning, that's losing. That is incremental fascism, a loss of rights. Winning is having incremental freedom, more choice, more liberty. And you get there by attacking

 

You say they don't have the funds? Start with his salary. With 100k I could pay 10 black citizens of Teaneck to apply for the carry permits, get denied, and then buy them each a video camera to walk into Loretta's office and call her a racist for denying their permits. Then ask her on camera "why do you think your white ass is worthy of gun protection in the state house, but you think myself as a black man is too stupid to carry a gun for protection?? Do you hate black people"

 

That's a lose lose scenario for her, and it's viral in 1 day. News coverage instantly

 

That's disrupting the enemy - changing the narrative

 

If we had 1000 people doing this getting denied, we'd have carry in 6 months. It would be too toxic for politicians to ignore the obvious problem. But instead, we listen to 6 figure salaries Telling us "not to poke the bear" while the state stands with their boots on our collective necks. What the hell are we "preserving" here??? We are the victims! Let's start acting like it!

 

I would have dozens of minorities applying for permits and crying foul on camera all day. More effective than any letter or email to your assemblyman. Or the endless years of promises of closed door conversations from the lofty above us in the NRA world.

 

Old Glock Guy said it best -they told us to wait, and now I'm 2 years older and still can't carry

 

What more proof do you need of what I'm saying? It's staring you all in the face.

[xXxplosive 824]

.....it's because they threaten us with permit Denial / justifiable need.....once that happens it renders your chance in every state on apps being denied or rejected....pretty much a deliberate Public Threat....IMO.

[DirtyDigz 1,812]

.....it's because they threaten us with permit Denial / justifiable need.....once that happens it renders your chance in every state on apps being denied or rejected....pretty much a deliberate Public Threat....IMO.

I've never heard of someone in NJ being denied a subsequent pistol purchase permit, or having their FID revoked, solely because they were denied on a carry permit application.

[diamondd817 827]

.....it's because they threaten us with permit Denial / justifiable need.....once that happens it renders your chance in every state on apps being denied or rejected....pretty much a deliberate Public Threat....IMO.

Ah crap... not this again.

[diamondd817 827]

 

I don't see them as a significant legal player although Bach has done us all an incredible service by working on NH non-resident licenses.

 

 

This is sarcasm, correct?

[Old Glock guy 1,127]

......only way I see it is if NJ can attach a huge Permit Fee to it..$K...

 

I think you're onto something there.  Several years ago State Senator Van Drew proposed a permit with a $500 annual fee, thinking that if the state could see a financial benefit, they might go for it.  NJ's 2A community went nuts, saying that it was outrageous to have to pay that much money to  exercise a Constitutional right.  

 

While I agree with that in principle, if we could get CCW permits approved with a high fee, at least our government would then have acknowledged our right.  After that, the fee could eventually be re-negotiated.

 

 

.....it's because they threaten us with permit Denial / justifiable need.....once that happens it renders your chance in every state on apps being denied or rejected....pretty much a deliberate Public Threat....IMO.

 

Where the application asks if you have ever been denied, you can just note that, "The State of NJ did not feel I had a justifiable need."

 

Or more cynically, "The State of NJ did not deem my life worth defending."

[Newtonian 453]

This is sarcasm, correct?

Why would it be? The easy as pie NH CC license gives us Pennsylvania, which is YUGE. Was Bach not part of that effort?

[voyager9 3,434]

everything here in NJ has a Permit, a Fee or Monies attached to it

Off topic but I found out today that the state now regulates Geocaches on state land. I'm sure that's not free. Apparently it's really reduced the activity. I used to love going out to the pine barrens and hunting for them.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[xXxplosive 824]

I've never heard of someone in NJ being denied a subsequent pistol purchase permit, or having their FID revoked, solely because they were denied on a carry permit application.

 

Who do you know that's been denied a CCL in NJ.......and have they been denied in another state because of it ?

[xXxplosive 824]

Ah crap... not this again.

 

So you think being denied your 2A here in NJ is.....Crap ?

[tattooo 220]

Any news on this ?

 

Sent from my SM-G925P using Tapatalk