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Night vision experts...talk to me


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#1 Displaced Texan

Displaced Texan
  • LocationStratford, NJ
  • Home Range:SJSC

Posted 20 March 2017 - 03:17 PM

This trip to the ranch has emphasized my need to see in the dark.

My preference is to have a clip on device. Something that I can use in front of my existing ACOG, but I am not opposed to setting up a dedicated rifle with a weapons sight.

The other question is, night vision or thermal??

I have seen some suitable weapons sights from ATN, both in thermal and digital NVS.

Main use is night hunting for hogs and predators.

Share your knowledge base, please!!
"Facts don't cease to exist, simply because they are ignored". Aldous Huxley

#2 Old School

Old School
  • LocationLow Country, SC
  • Home Range:My Back Yard

Posted 20 March 2017 - 03:24 PM

I'll be following this thread because I'm interested as well.

Just got the can for my 300BO and it sounds like a loud air rifle.

I've looked at Armasight and entry level Gen I is 500 bucks but comes with IR.

 

Let's see what you guys think.


Certified GLOCK Armorer

"I only got two things, my word and my balls, and I ain't breakin' either for nobody" - Tony Montana

"Life's journey is not arriving at the gate safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid-in-sideways, totally worn out, shouting...holy *...what a ride!"

Peace is that brief glorious moment in history when everybody stands around reloading.

 

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#3 High Exposure

High Exposure
  • LocationAtlantic Highlands
  • Home Range:Wherever I can press a trigger

Posted 20 March 2017 - 03:37 PM

An ACOG is not really designed to work with NODS. The only device I know of that is ACOG compatible is the Knights UNS SR and you are talking $6000-$8000.

I have heard that some people have had success mounting a PVS14 behind an ACOG, but you will deal with terrible image quality, parallax and eye relief issues, and shifting zero.

One of the other guys may know something else, but if i were you and planning on dropping coin investong in quality NODS, I would get a more appropriate optic as well,

Another concerns is an IR flood that will work at the ranges your magnified optic will let you engage.
RIP Pat, until Valhalla

"Therefore since the world has still, much good but much less good than ill,And while the sun and moon endure, luck’s a chance but trouble’s sure,I’d face it as a wise man would, and train for ill and not for good."- A. E. Housman

Isaiah 6:8 "Then I heard the voice of the Lord saying, “Whom shall I send? And who will go for us?” And I said, “Here am I. Send me!”

WWPRD?

#4 Old School

Old School
  • LocationLow Country, SC
  • Home Range:My Back Yard

Posted 20 March 2017 - 03:43 PM

Just jumping in again.

I'm looking for a night vision / IR combo

 

Will use ​no other optic


Certified GLOCK Armorer

"I only got two things, my word and my balls, and I ain't breakin' either for nobody" - Tony Montana

"Life's journey is not arriving at the gate safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid-in-sideways, totally worn out, shouting...holy *...what a ride!"

Peace is that brief glorious moment in history when everybody stands around reloading.

 

Message sent while driving fast on acid with one foot out the window.


#5 High Exposure

High Exposure
  • LocationAtlantic Highlands
  • Home Range:Wherever I can press a trigger

Posted 20 March 2017 - 03:59 PM

Gentlemen,

Don't skimp on NODS. You will be disappointed and angry.

Avoid Russian and 2nd gen tubes. You will not be pleased and will have wasted money.

If it is in Sportsman's guide, or cheaper than dirt don't look twice at it. EGAY and Amazon is buyer beware. If it looks too good to be true, it is. Lots of Chinese knockoffs.

Expect to pay north of $2000 for a quality, but basic NOD.

I get all my stuff from TNVC. Quality gear, good prices, excellent customer support.

Personally, I think a PVS 14 is the most versatile and affordable NOD out there and is the best selection for a casual user.

Old School,

Most NODS that are quality and affordable are only image enhancers and they have no integral aiming device. You need to either mount them to a weapon behind or in front of an optic of some kind or mount to your head and have an IR laser or modified TTP for deployment. Both have pluses and minuses with head mounted and an IR laser being the better option of the two.

I PMd both of you my number if you want to all and chat about it
RIP Pat, until Valhalla

"Therefore since the world has still, much good but much less good than ill,And while the sun and moon endure, luck’s a chance but trouble’s sure,I’d face it as a wise man would, and train for ill and not for good."- A. E. Housman

Isaiah 6:8 "Then I heard the voice of the Lord saying, “Whom shall I send? And who will go for us?” And I said, “Here am I. Send me!”

WWPRD?

#6 Zeke

Zeke
  • LocationDown by the river
  • Home Range:Nowhere yet

Posted 20 March 2017 - 05:14 PM

How do sight in an ir laser with a head mounted optic?
I apologize in advance for my ignorance.

#7 Displaced Texan

Displaced Texan
  • LocationStratford, NJ
  • Home Range:SJSC

Posted 20 March 2017 - 05:32 PM

Ok then, a dedicated weapons sight may be the best option. Skip the Russian or Gen 2. Gen 3 or better.

Still begs the question, NVS or thermal?? And why?


I wouldn't have missed that damn coyote last night had I been using sort of night vision. I'm a little pissed about boffing that shot.
"Facts don't cease to exist, simply because they are ignored". Aldous Huxley

#8 High Exposure

High Exposure
  • LocationAtlantic Highlands
  • Home Range:Wherever I can press a trigger

Posted 20 March 2017 - 05:38 PM

Zeke, TNVC explains it a lot better than I can:

RIP Pat, until Valhalla

"Therefore since the world has still, much good but much less good than ill,And while the sun and moon endure, luck’s a chance but trouble’s sure,I’d face it as a wise man would, and train for ill and not for good."- A. E. Housman

Isaiah 6:8 "Then I heard the voice of the Lord saying, “Whom shall I send? And who will go for us?” And I said, “Here am I. Send me!”

WWPRD?

#9 High Exposure

High Exposure
  • LocationAtlantic Highlands
  • Home Range:Wherever I can press a trigger

Posted 20 March 2017 - 05:46 PM

Ok then, a dedicated weapons sight may be the best option. Skip the Russian or Gen 2. Gen 3 or better.

Still begs the question, NVS or thermal?? And why?


I wouldn't have missed that damn coyote last night had I been using sort of night vision. I'm a little pissed about boffing that shot.


I would go with traditional IR NODs.

I don't have a lot of experience with thermal. I do know this:
Thermal is much more expensive.

Thermal can't see through insulators such as glass, so they are useless trying to look in or out through a car or house window.

Thermal does make living animals stand out pretty well but you lose some definition.

Also, depth perception goes right out the window with NODs. It is very difficult to estimate distance looking through a NOD tube.
RIP Pat, until Valhalla

"Therefore since the world has still, much good but much less good than ill,And while the sun and moon endure, luck’s a chance but trouble’s sure,I’d face it as a wise man would, and train for ill and not for good."- A. E. Housman

Isaiah 6:8 "Then I heard the voice of the Lord saying, “Whom shall I send? And who will go for us?” And I said, “Here am I. Send me!”

WWPRD?

#10 Displaced Texan

Displaced Texan
  • LocationStratford, NJ
  • Home Range:SJSC

Posted 20 March 2017 - 07:36 PM

Maybe a hand held PVS-14 system for search, and a dedicated weapons sight for targeting. In a hunting situation, I'd hate to be swinging the rifle around to search for targets. That could be very awkward for several reasons.

This looks like this could expensive fast. My wife is gonna HATE that....
"Facts don't cease to exist, simply because they are ignored". Aldous Huxley

#11 Heavyopp

Heavyopp
  • LocationMiddlesex
  • Home Range:Clinton - OBRPC

Posted 20 March 2017 - 08:41 PM

I'm pretty sure there are 2 PVS14s for sale here on the forum

I'm thinking at the least its a great opportunity to take a look thru one

#12 Scorpio64

Scorpio64
  • LocationExit 105
  • Home Range:R-14

Posted 20 March 2017 - 11:34 PM

I would go with traditional IR NODs.

I don't have a lot of experience with thermal. I do know this:
Thermal is much more expensive.

Thermal can't see through insulators such as glass, so they are useless trying to look in or out through a car or house window.

Thermal does make living animals stand out pretty well but you lose some definition.

Also, depth perception goes right out the window with NODs. It is very difficult to estimate distance looking through a NOD tube.

 

This is untrue.  A good friend and business associate has several FLIR thermal cameras that he uses for imaging hot spots on electrical panels and power plants on ships.  One night, about 15 years ago, at his office, we were messing with one of the high end ($25Kish) cameras.  Looking through a glass window at the street and sidewalk, we could see the thermal tire tracks, hot engines, transformers and even footprints on the sidewalk after someone walked by the office.

 

Now, we were inside looking out, I cannot attest to how it works from the outside looking into a window.  Though I don't imagine many coyotes live indoors.

 

Thermal rifle scopes may not have a large enough or very sensitive pickup, but thermal imaging is very capable of seeing through windows, at least from inside to outside.


"Step by step they were led to things which dispose to vice, the lounge, the bath, the elegant banquet. All this in their ignorance they called civilization, when it was but a part of their servitude."
Tacitus

 

“This year will go down in history. For the first time, a civilized nation has full gun registration.  Our streets will be safer, our police more efficient, and the world will follow our lead into the future.”—Adolf Hitler, 1935


#13 Malice4you

Malice4you
  • LocationMorris County
  • Home Range:EFGA

Posted 20 March 2017 - 11:35 PM

I have a Gen1 4x ATN (I believe) that I got for airsoft.  If I could use it to 150 feet, I'd be surprised.  It has a built-in IR illuminator, and I added another 3W or 5W LED IR light which helps the range a bit...  Resolution is pretty poor, outdoors with a lot of branches in the way is fairly problematic (foreground branches are super illuminated because of the IR lights, while anything beyond a few feet is still dark, and unless there's a lot of ambient light (moon), you HAVE to use the IR illuminator), but in wider open areas it works well enough within its limitations.  It works quite well in dark warehouses.  Mine has a cap with a tiny aperture that you can use in bright areas to filter out bright lights that could damage the tube - but it is also useful for navigating closeup with the IR on - it "changes" the minimum focus distance and allows you to navigate inside a house, for example.

 

I refuse to use a Gen2 or better device because it will spoil the one I have for me.

 

I did not have high expectations for a Gen1 scope.  My scope does exceed *my* expectations for my uses, but I also do not have delusions that it is anything special at all.  For any serious work at all, unless conditions are PERFECT (like some moonlight) - a Gen1 is worthless.  I'd look at a Gen2+ or better if I were doing anything serious and it weren't just a toy for me.  I don't know if you know anyone who has one, take a look through theirs and see what it is like.  I'd try a Gen2, Gen3, digital?, and/or thermal and get a feel for the differences...

 

BTW, I saw someone came out with a micro thermal for pretty cheap, it seemed like an interesting way to get you in the ballpark if mounted with another, better scope.  Found it....  http://tplogic.com/t...-solutions/t12/


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#14 Displaced Texan

Displaced Texan
  • LocationStratford, NJ
  • Home Range:SJSC

Posted 21 March 2017 - 07:01 PM

I've seen that device from TP Logic before. Haven't been able to find any pricing information on it l.

Think I am leaning more towards traditional night vision. Maybe a PVS-14 setup.
"Facts don't cease to exist, simply because they are ignored". Aldous Huxley

#15 Sevenshot

Sevenshot
  • LocationHudson County

Posted 21 March 2017 - 10:32 PM

I'm interested in this as well. Guy on Amazon wrote that he preferred the PVS7-3 or NVM14-2 over PVS14. Just something else to look into. Anyone have any experience with these other 2 setups?
Jeff

Hudson County

#16 WhiskeyTangoFoxtrot

WhiskeyTangoFoxtrot
  • Home Range:OBRPC & EFGA

Posted 21 March 2017 - 10:51 PM

The NV monocular I recommend is the Night Enforcer (NE) / PVS-14 by Harris (formerly ITT / Exelis). Harris has the Omnibus contract to supply the Army-Navy (AN) / PVS-14 to the U.S. Military, and the NE/PVS-14 is produced in the same assembly facilities with the same component sourcing as the AN/PVS-14. The only difference between the NE/PVS-14 and AN/PVS-14 Is that the latter has to complete U.S. Military acceptance testing to officially confirm it as "mil-spec".

The NE/PVS-14 is Gen 3 Pinnacle, Autogated by default. Meaning, you will not get screwed with Gen 2 intensifiers if you buy genuine NE/PVS-14 monoculars. Pricing is about $3,800 each, but LE can usually gain discounted pricing. The Harris / Exelis / ITT warranty on the NE/PVS-14 intensifier is an awesome 5 years - nobody else offers a warranty like that, and on the intensifier tube itself.

Quick detach mounts are available to allow you to rapidly swap the NE/PVS-14 between your head mount and rifle rail mount. Just know that you will not want to use the NE/PVS-14 on any rifle chambered for anything greater than .223 / 5.56x45mm otherwise the recoil will eventually damage the intensifier tube (e.g. 'shaken baby' syndrome, literally).

I still consider thermal imaging to be a supplement to light-intensified (i^2) night vision. Thermal imagers are principally best for the detection of warm bodies; but there are many environmental and climate conditions that can drastically reduce thermal contrast and detail which makes identification and navigation with them difficult to impossible. Plus, thermal scopes cannot see (sense, detect) through glass or water generally. It reall depend on how the glass filters certain wavelengths

كافر

 

NRA Life Member | NJ2AS | CNJFO | Glock Certified Armorer | NRA Range Safety Officer | D-Bag Extraordinaire

 

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#17 Displaced Texan

Displaced Texan
  • LocationStratford, NJ
  • Home Range:SJSC

Posted 22 March 2017 - 12:56 PM

I like the idea of the PVS-14. It seems to be the best bang for the buck unit out there.

I'm trying to figure how best to incorporate this unit into a weapons sight.
I have 4x32 ACOGs, which I am not sure they would be best combined with he PVS-14.
Also have a Trijicon SRS.

If it was your rifle(presuming a 5.56mm AR) and your $$, how would you set it up?
"Facts don't cease to exist, simply because they are ignored". Aldous Huxley

#18 Displaced Texan

Displaced Texan
  • LocationStratford, NJ
  • Home Range:SJSC

Posted 22 March 2017 - 02:49 PM

Some good information here: http://www.scout.com...-pvs-14-a-guide
"Facts don't cease to exist, simply because they are ignored". Aldous Huxley

#19 Zeke

Zeke
  • LocationDown by the river
  • Home Range:Nowhere yet

Posted 22 March 2017 - 07:01 PM

Does anybody make the Predator helmet yet?
That thing is bitchen!

#20 Sevenshot

Sevenshot
  • LocationHudson County

Posted 22 March 2017 - 07:37 PM

Lol I would sell some organs to buy that helmet.
Jeff

Hudson County

#21 High Exposure

High Exposure
  • LocationAtlantic Highlands
  • Home Range:Wherever I can press a trigger

Posted 22 March 2017 - 08:38 PM

Does anybody make the Predator helmet yet?
That thing is bitchen!


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RIP Pat, until Valhalla

"Therefore since the world has still, much good but much less good than ill,And while the sun and moon endure, luck’s a chance but trouble’s sure,I’d face it as a wise man would, and train for ill and not for good."- A. E. Housman

Isaiah 6:8 "Then I heard the voice of the Lord saying, “Whom shall I send? And who will go for us?” And I said, “Here am I. Send me!”

WWPRD?

#22 Displaced Texan

Displaced Texan
  • LocationStratford, NJ
  • Home Range:SJSC

Posted 22 March 2017 - 08:44 PM

Thanks HE....now I've got to have that too!!!


I wonder what I can get for a kidney...
"Facts don't cease to exist, simply because they are ignored". Aldous Huxley

#23 Zeke

Zeke
  • LocationDown by the river
  • Home Range:Nowhere yet

Posted 22 March 2017 - 09:49 PM

Of course someone makes the Predator helmet and HE knows them
  • High Exposure likes this




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