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What the f*** is this shit? - "See a Doctor, Lose your Guns." A2938


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#1 orangesolo

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Posted 20 March 2017 - 06:42 PM

http://www.nj2as.org...tm_source=nj2as

 

I understand if you were involuntarily committed, you were detained and had your day in court so yes, you should have it revoked. But what about the folks who voluntarily just want to get some help because of a rough patch. You shouldn't have to feel scared voluntarily going to get help & then having your right to obtain/possess a firearm revoked. Granted it's left up to the doctor on if you should have it revoked or not, but what if you have an anti-2a doctor? I guess just don't even mention that you have firearms to your doctor anymore (I don't know who would anyways). Unbelievable though, but I guess that's what we get for living in this state. 

 

Edit - To moderaters, sorry. I didn't see the "Pending Legislation Discussion" subforum. Please move it to there if needed.



#2 jackandjill

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Posted 20 March 2017 - 07:06 PM

THIS is why "registration", "licensing" is BAD BAD BAD idea to begin with. I came across a NY firearm forum and its littered with scores of people complaining about how "licensing agency" was quick to remove ALL firearms (and they have full list at all times) even for minor things as a son/daughter having a fist fight at school and saying something. 

 

"Attorney General shall only use to determine whether the patient has been issued a firearms purchaser identification card, permit to purchase a handgun, or any other permit or license authorizing possession of a firearm..."

 

Glad to know that Criminals don't have to go through this new law as they would not have FPID, Permit to purchase or any other permit or license authorizing possession of a firearm.  I feel safe already. 


-------------------

Don't tell me what is good for me, get out of my way and let me make my own destiny. 

 

#3 Zeke

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Posted 20 March 2017 - 07:21 PM

I don't think this one will get vetoed

#4 sroc112

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Posted 20 March 2017 - 07:39 PM

When do we find out if it passes, Thursday?
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#5 mipafox

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Posted 20 March 2017 - 08:36 PM

Death of a thousand cuts. They will use any excuse to get guns away from us.

"We are not trying to take your guns away. Now turn over your guns."

War Paint


#6 siderman

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Posted 20 March 2017 - 10:23 PM

Nothing that hasn't been written before. They are dusting off all the proposed bills from after Sandy Hook shooting. This one is A3754 from http://c.ymcdn.com/s...st_03-22-13.pdf   I've mentioned this a bunch of times that this list is the rough draft of the NJ SAFE Act coming our way. They warned us 4 yrs ago, here it is again. Take notes, especially the newcomers here who may not have seen this list before, its a shocker.


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#7 GRIZ

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Posted 20 March 2017 - 10:26 PM

The way this is worded a LPN with one year education after high school as "licensed practioner" could drop a dime on a patient and the patient could lose their gun rights.

As mipafox said a death of a thousand cuts.

#8 sroc112

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Posted 21 March 2017 - 04:48 AM

Not fun
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#9 Nickjc

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Posted 21 March 2017 - 05:51 AM

Nothing that hasn't been written before. They are dusting off all the proposed bills from after Sandy Hook shooting. This one is A3754 from http://c.ymcdn.com/s...st_03-22-13.pdf   I've mentioned this a bunch of times that this list is the rough draft of the NJ SAFE Act coming our way. They warned us 4 yrs ago, here it is again. Take notes, especially the newcomers here who may not have seen this list before, its a shocker.


It's all coming home to roost

This time next year nj will kill the 2A
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#10 T Bill

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Posted 21 March 2017 - 07:03 AM

Well then, time to rally the 2A voters and see if we can stop this crazy thing.  Low voter turn out will be to our advantage.  Yeah, I know.................but you have to try.


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” … the right to defend one’s home and one’s person when attacked has been guaranteed through the ages by common law.” - Dr. Martin Luther King
"Men fight for liberty and win it with hard knocks. Their children, brought up easy, let it slip away again; poor fools. And their grand-children are once more slaves." - D. H. Lawrence
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#11 siderman

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Posted 21 March 2017 - 07:50 AM

Well then, time to rally the 2A voters and see if we can stop this crazy thing.  Low voter turn out will be to our advantage.  Yeah, I know.................but you have to try.


The obvious course of action is to not let a demorat win the gov seat, a long shot for sure. Looks like it may get even harder for a Republican win, seems Joe Piscapo is seriously thinking a Indy run for gov. Was thinking on going on the R platform but doesnt think a R could win so.......way to take away R votes Joe. Dick move.

#12 jackandjill

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Posted 21 March 2017 - 08:09 AM

This is an "addition" to an existing law. As usual, they already have enough power, but want more.  And the addition aims to broaden the existing law too. 

 

 

Notice broad reaching language in the proposed addition. One says the patient must have communicated. All the new law needs is "interpretation & judgement" from the person sitting across you.  

 

 

Existing law: The patient has communicated to that practitioner a threat of imminent, serious physical violence against a readily identifiable individual or against himself

 

Addition: in the exercise of reasonable professional judgment, that the patient is likely to engage in conduct that would result in serious harm to self or others,


-------------------

Don't tell me what is good for me, get out of my way and let me make my own destiny. 

 

#13 oldguysrule649

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Posted 21 March 2017 - 10:22 AM

Nothing that hasn't been written before. They are dusting off all the proposed bills from after Sandy Hook shooting. This one is A3754 from http://c.ymcdn.com/s...st_03-22-13.pdf   I've mentioned this a bunch of times that this list is the rough draft of the NJ SAFE Act coming our way. They warned us 4 yrs ago, here it is again. Take notes, especially the newcomers here who may not have seen this list before, its a shocker.

I concur on all points.  And agree the 2013 list will be their starting point for next year.  I would assume they have already generated an updated list of anti-2A bills, based off that 2013 list, have them ready to go when the time comes.

 

Moreover, I cannot begin to fully express how disgusted and disrespected I feel as someone who was born, raised, and have raised a family here in NJ.   I increasingly feel like part of an oppressed class of citizens whose politicians are striving to banish from this state.  Is this any different that the many instances in history where populations were persecuted and turned into refugees?   Perhaps a bit dramatic of a comparison, but essentially the same.

 

I have too many family roots here to completely up and move at this time.  However, have begun to give thought to acquiring a 2nd home(vacation/retirement) in Pa.  Perhaps over time make it my primary residence. Have begun floating the idea with my wife as well.  The anticipated onslaught next year may be the catalyst for me to do so.  (Mipa, at some future date, I intend to reach out to you for your wise counsel concerning Pennsylvania.  Thank you in advance.)


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#14 siderman

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Posted 21 March 2017 - 12:06 PM

I concur on all points.  And agree the 2013 list will be their starting point for next year.  I would assume they have already generated an updated list of anti-2A bills, based off that 2013 list, have them ready to go when the time comes.

 

Moreover, I cannot begin to fully express how disgusted and disrespected I feel as someone who was born, raised, and have raised a family here in NJ.   I increasingly feel like part of an oppressed class of citizens whose politicians are striving to banish from this state.  Is this any different that the many instances in history where populations were persecuted and turned into refugees?   Perhaps a bit dramatic of a comparison, but essentially the same.

 

I have too many family roots here to completely up and move at this time.  However, have begun to give thought to acquiring a 2nd home(vacation/retirement) in Pa.  Perhaps over time make it my primary residence. Have begun floating the idea with my wife as well.  The anticipated onslaught next year may be the catalyst for me to do so.  (Mipa, at some future date, I intend to reach out to you for your wise counsel concerning Pennsylvania.  Thank you in advance.)

 

Your point on persecuted refugees is actually very much on point. I too born, lived my entire life here and recently retired. But definetly feeling boot on ass from the relentless 2A oppression. I can live with the over crowding and expensive life here its part of me but the politics of this state is something else and has turned into something that just doesnt come close to who we are any more, and btw not just the gun stuff. If not for my mom who lives 3 mins away & depends on me I'd be gone. Unfortunatly she will not leave her home but for on a stretcher....All my family is here but scattered and not nearby. And to top things off my wife may be tempted to return to work, there has been some teases with a 6 figure salary again, hard to turn that down. Which would make sense since I cant abandon my mom however I made it clear job or no job we're out of here should my mom leave us. We would have no issue leaving NJ behind first real chance we get.



#15 Nickjc

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Posted 21 March 2017 - 12:44 PM

 We would have no issue leaving NJ behind first real chance we get.

 

I moved here in 1993 - and have loved living in rural Sussex County - but at this time I cannot wait to leave - the clock has been ticking and it it is down to 2-3 years.

 

My wife and I are just looking at the where we want to go in the south east - I am relatively young (50) so i still need to work - but the bonus is - my kids, neither one of the girls, want to live in NJ.

 

The day NJ is in my review mirror is the day that cannot come soon enough - we are a minority in this state and there is no tolerance for freedom and let law abiding citizens alone. 

 

This is also one of many issues, for the reason to leave this state that is so sick with greed, power and political influence.  There is no chance for any firearms owner in this state to live by their own lead - the clock is ticking and the hammer of legislative oppression is fast approaching.

 

"All . . . will bear in mind this sacred principle, that though the will of the majority is in all cases to prevail, that will to be rightful must be reasonable; that the minority possess their equal rights, which equal law must protect and to violate would be oppression" - T. Jefferson, Inaugural Address 1801

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#16 tomk62

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Posted 21 March 2017 - 01:04 PM

 

My wife and I are just looking at the where we want to go in the south east - I am relatively young (50) so i still need to work - but the bonus is - my kids, neither one of the girls, want to live in NJ.

 

 

Same here, waiting for the last of my kids to graduate high school (spring 2018) and then we are out here, likely coastal SC or GA.

 

Having grown up in NJ I never though I would leave but I am now more than ready.  My wife was itching badly to move to NYC (she gets bored real quick in the suburbs) but having seen the light with all the liberal BS going on she's ready to head south too. 


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#17 Nickjc

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Posted 21 March 2017 - 01:19 PM

Same here, waiting for the last of my kids to graduate high school (spring 2018) and then we are out here, likely coastal SC or GA.

 

 

 

See you down there  :drinks:


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#18 SW9racer

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Posted 21 March 2017 - 01:45 PM

I crossed the Delaware for the last time 5 months ago. I should have done it 5 years ago. It's not until you leave when you find out how really crappy living in nj was, you get used to the smell of poop. It's not even the 2a stuff, it's everyday living. I waited for the kids to graduate high school, and they all wished we moved sooner now. Sure I left an inlaw or two behind, it was a sacrifice :) But it's nice not paying all that money to support a system that was criminalizing me. When I tell my new FL coworkers about life in nj, they don't believe me!
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#19 HBecwithFn7

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  • LocationTampa Bay Area, Florida

Posted 21 March 2017 - 04:48 PM

I crossed the Delaware for the last time 5 months ago. I should have done it 5 years ago. It's not until you leave when you find out how really crappy living in nj was, you get used to the smell of poop. It's not even the 2a stuff, it's everyday living. I waited for the kids to graduate high school, and they all wished we moved sooner now. Sure I left an inlaw or two behind, it was a sacrifice :) But it's nice not paying all that money to support a system that was criminalizing me. When I tell my new FL coworkers about life in nj, they don't believe me!

 

Same here. Where did you settle in FL?



#20 sota

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Posted 21 March 2017 - 05:31 PM

SC gun laws aren't that great. Research.

You really need to re-think what you're saying when mipafox is making more sense than you are


#21 Mrs. Peel

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Posted 21 March 2017 - 06:08 PM

I concur on all points.  And agree the 2013 list will be their starting point for next year.  I would assume they have already generated an updated list of anti-2A bills, based off that 2013 list, have them ready to go when the time comes.

 

Moreover, I cannot begin to fully express how disgusted and disrespected I feel as someone who was born, raised, and have raised a family here in NJ.   I increasingly feel like part of an oppressed class of citizens whose politicians are striving to banish from this state.  Is this any different that the many instances in history where populations were persecuted and turned into refugees?   Perhaps a bit dramatic of a comparison, but essentially the same.

 

I have too many family roots here to completely up and move at this time.  However, have begun to give thought to acquiring a 2nd home(vacation/retirement) in Pa.  Perhaps over time make it my primary residence. Have begun floating the idea with my wife as well.  The anticipated onslaught next year may be the catalyst for me to do so.  (Mipa, at some future date, I intend to reach out to you for your wise counsel concerning Pennsylvania.  Thank you in advance.)

Hmmm... I feel your pain. And I think we will all be feeling much more pain in 2018. But, my grasp of taxes/finance is admittedly poor, so don't laugh when I ask this: isn't there an opportunity here for some enterprising folks? I see an area like Stroudsburg with undervalued homes (beautiful 5 bedroom homes renting for 2K a month)... right over the river from the soon-to-be-even-more-oppressed NJ gun owners, yearning to be free. Is there any law that prohibits, say, 50 NJ gun owners from buying a house and terming it their "residence"? Likewise, as long as the primary residents are quiet, does a town really care if on paper you "sublet" to 10 or 20 people?

 

I mean, of course, best to fight this politically - but the demographics in our state are NOT good. So, if that fails... I'm sure some conniving cookies in PA are going to get creative with real estate. What are the tax implications of all that? If your NJ residence becomes your "secondary" residence? Is there a huge impact... or not? Is this a flight of fancy I'm on...?



#22 mipafox

mipafox

Posted 21 March 2017 - 06:18 PM

I have no idea. This has come up before. This is a different question overall than the ATF definition of "residence." For some reason, once I brought that up, people started thinking they could "reside" in any state they wanted for all legal purposes. Not the case.

Here is the little I do know. Between PA and Jersey, you pay income taxes in the state you "reside" in. Corporate taxes (such as S Corp K-1s) in the state of the company. If you "reside" in PA you must change your driver's license within 15 days. We also have local taxes that run somewhere around 1% and that does not come in the manual you get when you cross the border. It is up to you to know about it and pay it.

War Paint


#23 Zeke

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Posted 21 March 2017 - 06:20 PM

6+ mos is primary state of residence. If multiple states, state most time in, or one you claim.
Rule of thumb, what is says on your dl is your port of call...

#24 maintenanceguy

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Posted 21 March 2017 - 06:30 PM

Well then, time to rally the 2A voters and see if we can stop this crazy thing.  Low voter turn out will be to our advantage.  Yeah, I know.................but you have to try.


It's not time yet. The vast majority of NJ gun owners don't care. Until something personally effects them, they're fine with whatever restrictions they state wants to create.

 

We haven't hit rock bottom yet.  Until NJ comes for the shotguns and black powder rifles, 95% or more of NJ gun owners are fine with NJ's laws.  Doesn't effect me and my deer hunt so I don't care.

 

Like a junkie, either it will get so bad that we'll finally decide to change our lives by fighting or the 2A will just die.  Either way, it's not time yet.


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#25 Nickjc

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Posted 21 March 2017 - 06:57 PM

It's not time yet. The vast majority of NJ gun owners don't care. Until something personally effects them, they're fine with whatever restrictions they state wants to create.
 
We haven't hit rock bottom yet.  Until NJ comes for the shotguns and black powder rifles, 95% or more of NJ gun owners are fine with NJ's laws.  Doesn't effect me and my deer hunt so I don't care.
 
Like a junkie, either it will get so bad that we'll finally decide to change our lives by fighting or the 2A will just die.  Either way, it's not time yet.



Well one person I kmow and brought that point to him....he shrugged and said I have my bow.

Unreal.
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#26 Nickjc

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Posted 21 March 2017 - 07:00 PM

SC gun laws aren't that great. Research.


How so and I did.....? NFA is hard buy not impossible. ..for *me* that's not a show stopper. ....but should be improved
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#27 Indianajonze

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Posted 21 March 2017 - 07:49 PM

SC gun laws aren't that great. Research.

well i mean compared to nj it's a garden oasis



#28 oldguysrule649

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Posted 21 March 2017 - 07:55 PM

With regards to the A2938 bill and laws of it's type, there is no doubt it should dissuade people from seeking any kind of mental health treatment, even something as benign as obtaining advice related to child rearing, marriage, work challenges, etc.  Also, when I go for my yearly physical and my doctor asks "How's your stress level on a scale of 0-10"; my answer is now always zero.  Or,  to quote another forum member's post from a while back:  "The only person I open my mouth for is my dentist."

 

The danger is that most people are not as focused as we are on issues such as this.  Many will unknowingly dig themselves into a hole only to find out later they are listed in a database with mental health disqualifers.

Our anti-2A legislators are playing a strategic long game.


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#29 oldguysrule649

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Posted 21 March 2017 - 08:08 PM

Hmmm... I feel your pain. And I think we will all be feeling much more pain in 2018. But, my grasp of taxes/finance is admittedly poor, so don't laugh when I ask this: isn't there an opportunity here for some enterprising folks? I see an area like Stroudsburg with undervalued homes (beautiful 5 bedroom homes renting for 2K a month)... right over the river from the soon-to-be-even-more-oppressed NJ gun owners, yearning to be free. Is there any law that prohibits, say, 50 NJ gun owners from buying a house and terming it their "residence"? Likewise, as long as the primary residents are quiet, does a town really care if on paper you "sublet" to 10 or 20 people?

 

I mean, of course, best to fight this politically - but the demographics in our state are NOT good. So, if that fails... I'm sure some conniving cookies in PA are going to get creative with real estate. What are the tax implications of all that? If your NJ residence becomes your "secondary" residence? Is there a huge impact... or not? Is this a flight of fancy I'm on...?

A good "thinking out of the box idea", but not practical from a number of perspectives, not to also mention the aforementioned need to spend most of your time in Pa.  Don't forget, your EZPass and cellphone data could be easily used to prove/disprove where you resided throughout the year.  So push comes to shove, you can't fudge that.

 

On a related note, worth mentioning that Gunsitters (gunsitters.com)  has now opened a branch in Easton, Pa.  So, if in 2018, NJ reclassifies my already neutered  M&P 15/22 22 long rifle  as an "assault weapon", it will have a new home at Gunsitters in Easton, until such time it then moves to my eventual Pa residence.


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#30 Mrs. Peel

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Posted 21 March 2017 - 08:27 PM

A good "thinking out of the box idea", but not practical from a number of perspectives, not to also mention the aforementioned need to spend most of your time in Pa.  Don't forget, your EZPass and cellphone data could be easily used to prove/disprove where you resided throughout the year.  So push comes to shove, you can't fudge that.

 

On a related note, worth mentioning that Gunsitters (gunsitters.com)  has now opened a branch in Easton, Pa.  So, if in 2018, NJ reclassifies my already neutered  M&P 15/22 22 long rifle  as an "assault weapon", it will have a new home at Gunsitters in Easton, until such time it then moves to my eventual Pa residence.

 

I've never had an EZPass! No, I don't normally wear a tinfoil hat... nor do I expect to be runnin' from the law at any point in my life (LOL!)... that said, the whole "big brother", tracking your every move aspect of it just irks me to no end.

 

Without it, I think it would be very hard for anyone to prove where you laid your head at night. Your cell phone can't show where you slept.

 

Gunsitters is an interesting option though --- seems they're on to a smart long game and anticipating the same issues as the rest of us. Again, enterprising individuals will make money off the great disparity in laws between these 2 states - especially as those disparities grow wider.






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