"New software" slowing down permits at NJSP?

[Mr.Stu 1,918]

The firearms investigation unit, and my local barracks.

 

609-882-2000 the prompts are 1 3 7 then hold for more help. Say you are trying to find out the status of your permits or FID. They will look you up, tell you if they approved you, and if they mailed you back to your station. If you were approved it's in snail mail still or at your barracks.

 

Then call your barracks, be very nice, call maybe once a week tops.

I wrote to the governor on the state web site last night because my permits have been approved for 2 weeks but I still don't have them.

 

I encourage everybody dealing with NJSP delays to do the same. They are flouting State law and EO180.

 

I called for the superintendent to be fired. There is no sense in allowing the state's most senior police officer to break the law. If the law doesn't apply to him, why should it apply to anyone?

 

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

[Ricky_Bobby 130]

going on 2 Months in bridgewater. Usually 30 days 

 

This is unlike Robert Hanlon and I'm not sure its anything to do with his efficiency - did you get yours yet?  Our town is usually super fast, last round of permits for me was 2.5 weeks.

 

My wife dropped her FID and P2P paperwork off on a Wednesday afternoon, on Friday her employer got the reference letter, and on Monday the references had their letters, and she got fingerprinted a week and a half after that (6 days ago now) - admittedly her last reference sent the letter back a week ago, he sat on it for a few days.  So I'm curious to see how long this takes to turn around.

 

I believe it is not our actual PD though I think its Trenton being slow in actually delivering the permits to the PD.  Because I always get the call right away but they are dated at least a week prior to the day I get the call.

[Wheremahpermits 3]

I wrote to the governor on the state web site last night because my permits have been approved for 2 weeks but I still don't have them.

I encourage everybody dealing with NJSP delays to do the same. They are flouting State law and EO180.

I called for the superintendent to be fired. There is no sense in allowing the state's most senior police officer to break the law. If the law doesn't apply to him, why should it apply to anyone?

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

I was on the webpage yesterday looking but didn't know what category to write him under. Law? Civil rights?

[Wheremahpermits 3]

This is unlike Robert Hanlon and I'm not sure its anything to do with his efficiency - did you get yours yet?  Our town is usually super fast, last round of permits for me was 2.5 weeks.

 

My wife dropped her FID and P2P paperwork off on a Wednesday afternoon, on Friday her employer got the reference letter, and on Monday the references had their letters, and she got fingerprinted a week and a half after that (6 days ago now) - admittedly her last reference sent the letter back a week ago, he sat on it for a few days.  So I'm curious to see how long this takes to turn around.

 

I believe it is not our actual PD though I think its Trenton being slow in actually delivering the permits to the PD.  Because I always get the call right away but they are dated at least a week prior to the day I get the call.

Trenton is on point right now. They approved me and had me mailed out fine. But it's not really mailed. It's the police departments job to come and pick them up. A trooper comes either daily, weekly, or monthly to retrieve them. In my case one barracks picks them up, then my barracks picks it up from the other barracks. So there are so many points of failure and the local stations not caring to get their Trenton mail.

[Wheremahpermits 3]

Call the firearm investigation unit and ask them to call your police department. Bam permits ready and a very angry sounding voicemail to pick them up.

[Mrs. Peel 7,157]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe part of the governor's directive requires municipalities and the NJSP to collect data going forward on their permit turnaround time and then make that data available.

 

Here's my thought though... how much would you like to bet they're recording the data at the point of the initial "approval" in Trenton... and NOT recording it from the date the local barracks calls the citizen to say "your permit is approved, come pick it up"...? If I'm right, the entire data collection process is rendered utterly meaningless. It will VASTLY undercount in favor of the police, by not showing the true reality of the wait times.  It won't reflect that whole backend process of weeks if not months after permits are approved and logged in the computer but before they make their slow, meandering way (by drunken Pony Express it seems) back to the local barracks. (Cynically, I think they'll collect that data any way they can that conveniently avoids "shining a light" on where the biggest delays/breakdowns are happening.)

 

Just curious... does anyone have insight on this data collection?... has it started already?... and how is it being counted?

[Wheremahpermits 3]

Not sure Mrs Peel but I just got my permits and it's approved April 1st, today is April 12th. So my permits sat 11 days. So if they country April 1st they aren't looking so bad. If the count the pickup day it's not looking so good.

 

Side note Trenton approved me, didn't call references, and my local state barracks just handed them over.

[jm1827 284]

Not sure Mrs Peel but I just got my permits and it's approved April 1st, today is April 12th. So my permits sat 11 days. So if they country April 1st they aren't looking so bad. If the count the pickup day it's not looking so good.

 

Side note Trenton approved me, didn't call references, and my local state barracks just handed them over.

I go through the local NJSP also and for me it was the SP that called my references

[Mrs. Peel 7,157]

OK, I called that # in Trenton, got a very nice lieutenant on the phone from the Firearms unit. He couldn't get into the system at the moment, so I figured I'd pick his brain since I had him on the phone... I asked him about the Gov's directive, exactly how they are collecting the data, from what date to what date, etc.

 

According to him, they are not formally doing that data collection yet... but they have been studying how to do it (it's a fairly complex process apparently with a lot of moving parts), they will put it in place very soon, and in anticipation, the unit has already made several internal changes that have improved processing time. He said those changes got the processing time down from a high of 90+ days to about 55 currently. Now, keep in mind - he's talking about the time within his unit apparently... not talking about getting it back to the local barracks... that's a whole 'nother can of worms. The thing that blew me away (in a negative way)... is that I told him that by this point my permit was approved roughly a month ago - he believed that it still wouldn't have hit the local barracks yet! So, there's definitely some kind of MAJOR holdup that happens between the approval in Trenton, the physical act of completing the permit, and then getting it back to the local barracks. (That seems to jive with what some of you are seeing).

 

Also, he did share that he felt certain that in the future the "clock" would start ticking from the point that all the applicant's info is in: your paper form, your online criminal history request, AND your returned reference forms. On the one hand, that seems reasonable to me... however, if your local barracks is s-l-o-w about mailing out the reference forms, for instance, that won't count against permit processing time... and that does NOT seem all that reasonable. It seems to me they need some sort of performance measures at the local barracks - like "all references must be mailed within 2 business days of receipt" - maybe they do that now already?

 

He admitted frustration on the part of the Trenton Firearms Unit --- that they all want to see the process move faster, and that he believes there will be a greatly improved, speedier system in place by the beginning of the year because they're throwing so much effort at it now (I'm guessing that's all due to pressure created by that directive).

 

Other than that... I will just say that he just seemed professional and quite willing to answer questions and be helpful. Personally, I always appreciate that. 

[Wheremahpermits 3]

The references thing is so weird and honestly I think it's just used to slow things down. Every time I have applied my references were never contacted. And I have applied from multiple stations local and state.

 

I have also BEEN a reference for people and I have never been mailed anything. I've always received a short and sweet phone call asking me about 5 or so questions and that's that. Why some places are still mailing reference forms vs a phone call is beyond me.

[Ricky_Bobby 130]

Or......... We could just do away with pistol permitting system altogether, sure the process is fine for getting your Firearms ID card initially but after that, why not just do the NJSP criminal records search for $20 to give you say a 6 month window to go as many pistols as you want and then pay $15 at point of sale for NICS for each one?

 

 

Since as I posted either in here or another thread, the whole "handgun permit" system in our state and the ones that still exist in other states (even in NC where I am moving, since the KKK ran the legislature in NC from those days, but since 2004 if you have a CCW you no longer need permits to purchase pistols) are literally a Jim Crow era system that was used to hinder and prevent the newly freed blacks from obtaining handguns to protect themselves.  It's just evolved into a system of total control but let me tell you what, if showing government issued ID to vote is racist, you bet your ass in Trenton, Albany, etc that they might as well be lynching blacks on the lawns of the State House with an asinine system like this.

 

And the state wonders why there is exodus in droves, for their draconian gun laws that still exist on the books with no sense whatsoever, along with all the other long list of reasons to go elsewhere.

 

 

It would be one thing if you could fax or email your forms (if you have your Firearms ID already) to your permit bureau representative at the PD, but since they work worse than bankers hours (Hanlon I am applauding you in Bridgewater as you at least have one evening a week you are there till 6:30 which is fine) and you have to show up in person each time to drop off paperwork and pick up it does nothing but piss off people who's pistols are waiting in jail.

 

My buddy in west Jersey dropped his off at the Hope Barracks and they basically laughed at him and told him if he gets his stuff back in 3 months he's lucky.  Now how likely is he to go out and purchase a pistol on a whim when its so cumbersome?

 

And therein lies my point, the system exists to control us every step of the way.  And now with the data collection, good riddance.

[Mrs. Peel 7,157]

OK, well... I got my permits today. 81 days after I applied. And the issue date on the permit is 4/15 (pragmatically making them "80-day permits" rather than the 90-day permits I applied for).

 

The troopers I dealt with at Perryville and Trenton were professional, pleasant, and replied to my (limited) phonecalls very promptly. I can't speak for what happens at other barracks, but as others here have mentioned, I think it's the system itself that is irrevocably broken. I do not blame the troopers. They are cogs in a smashed wheel.

 

My references were checked locally, via snail mail. The case then went to Trenton for other steps and was "approved" in the system on March 16th - more than a month ago! From there, it fell into a bureaucratic vortex - waiting for someone to type the info into a template, print it out on a dot matrix printer (since it's a form with multiple pressure-sensitive sheets, it can't be printed on every printer). It was then shipped to Troop B HQ, where it would be picked up twice weekly by the troopers from my barracks. Ridiculous!

 

Even a Luddite like me can see this system cries out for improved technology. From the little I gathered, IMO, the NJSP needs to do this: 

 

1. do all references by phone (eliminating the snail mail delay on that part of the process)

2. redesign the form to print out on regular copy paper, with 4 signature fields to duplicate the 4 carbon copies (so the permits can be printed on a regular laser printer, eliminating the need for the dot matrix printers - who the HELL uses those pressure sensitive carbon copies anymore???)

3. develop a database (or add features to the current one): a) a countdown (aging) feature so everyone involved can see which ones are nearing the 30 day mark...and feel some urgency, and b) an add-on that flows the approval info straight from the database into a "print-ready" template (eliminating the need for administrative staff in Trenton to type that info into their own template - which is apparently, astoundingly how it's done now).

4. include an automatic "sort" so that approved permits are sorted into separate electronic files based on the barracks requesting it (eliminating the need for any manual "sorting" either at Trenton or at Troop A, B, etc.).

5. send those individual files electronically to each appropriate local barracks, where they can print them out on regular laser printers (eliminating the Pony Express trooper transport system which adds days/weeks into the process - and unfairly cuts into someone's 90-day purchase period).

 

I don't know the whole process, but I suspect what I just laid out would probably eliminate at least 30-45 days from this process. I'm sure anyone in the IT field (or even most 12-year-old kids these days!) could come up with something a gazillion times better. And we're not taking about technology for a Level 4 biohazard containment lab, for god's sake -- some of this is more akin to a "mail merge" in MS Word and probably not even that costly. What this tells me is that meeting the 30-day legal requirement has been a VERY low priority for the NJSP for a long, long time.

 

If you ask me... it's probably STILL not a high priority. Why would the higher-ups at the NJSP invest a dime in real process improvement when the person making the request is essentially a lame-duck governor? They probably figure by the time they improve the process, there'll be a Democrat as governor - and that person will want the permitting process to be as slow as possible.

 

In summary: NEW JERSEY SUCKS. Thank you for letting me vent about it though!

[45Doll 5,877]

Everything you said makes sense Emma. And if it were a responsible commercial operation they would be implemented.

 

But as far as firearms permits processing goes, neither the NJSP or their Democrat masters are interested in improving the system. The whole point of the system is to slow you up.

 

Or make you give up entirely.

[Zeke 5,504]

^^^^

This.

[Zeke 5,504]

So what ya gonna get?

[Ricky_Bobby 130]

Its all about discouraging you to purchase firearms in NJ - and especially discouraging you to buy more of those evil handguns you will go commit felonies with - it starts with having to take off of work to drop off your "application" because God knows its worse than bankers hours, at least my PD has one late evening (till 6:30 PM) - and it ends with having 10 days cut off on your permit because it takes them that long to send them back to your PD for delivery.

 

Even with long arms, its about discouraging you.  Many don't own long arms just for the nuisance of having to get an FPID.  90% of other states in the country, DL and NICS and good to go if you are 18+ -

 

Enjoy your permit, be sure to use it on something nice!  I'm actually impressed with the 81 days with the NJSP barracks you used.

[Rabit536 1]

Two questions...Has anyone gotten a fid or permit from the NJSP in Port Norris (Commercial Twp)?...and, What is the online background check that I keep hearing about? I went into the barracks and picked up a packet for my fid and there was no mention of anything online except to schedule and pay for fingerprinting.