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Franklin Armory’s New AR-15 Is Neither A Pistol Nor A Rifle


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#1 Krdshrk

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Posted 07 October 2011 - 04:14 PM

ATF Confirmed it's not a SBR, AOW, Pistol or Rifle!

http://www.thetrutha...ol-nor-a-rifle/

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#2 vladtepes

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Posted 07 October 2011 - 04:18 PM

how long is barrel?

Click Each of the following to learn about rules and regulations regarding NJ. Each has detailed information allowing you to understand what you can and can not have.
Semiautomatic Rifle Semiautomatic Handgun Semiautomatic Shotgun

 

BackwoodsCustomCoatings im not breaking your balls...youre seriously crazy...

 

#3 Krdshrk

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Posted 07 October 2011 - 04:23 PM

11.5", and overall length is just over 23"

But here's the thing - it's not classified as a rifle so there should be no 16" restriction.

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#4 hd2000fxdl

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Posted 07 October 2011 - 04:24 PM

Very interesting, this should be fun. :russian:

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#5 DevsAdvocate

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Posted 07 October 2011 - 04:37 PM

Just buy them. Don't ask the NJSP for permission prior or they may rule to take them away! :p

#6 Jon

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Posted 07 October 2011 - 04:38 PM

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#7 bbk

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Posted 07 October 2011 - 04:44 PM

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#8 vladtepes

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Posted 07 October 2011 - 04:45 PM

11.5", and overall length is just over 23"

But here's the thing - it's not classified as a rifle so there should be no 16" restriction.



you are talking about federal law... there is also NJ law.. in which taking a quick look it does not appear to satisfy NJ legal definition for pistol OR rifle (mirroring what you saw)

we all know that you can fire a light caliber semi auto from the shoulder with just a foam coated buffer tube.. so NJ MAY argue that it is meant to be fired from the shoulder thus making it a rifle.. but who knows?

Click Each of the following to learn about rules and regulations regarding NJ. Each has detailed information allowing you to understand what you can and can not have.
Semiautomatic Rifle Semiautomatic Handgun Semiautomatic Shotgun

 

BackwoodsCustomCoatings im not breaking your balls...youre seriously crazy...

 

#9 vladtepes

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Posted 07 October 2011 - 04:46 PM

Just buy them. Don't ask the NJSP for permission prior or they may rule to take them away! :p



if you want one.. this is probably the best course of action.. read the law.. understand the law.. and proceed.. might be tough getting someone to do the transfer?

Click Each of the following to learn about rules and regulations regarding NJ. Each has detailed information allowing you to understand what you can and can not have.
Semiautomatic Rifle Semiautomatic Handgun Semiautomatic Shotgun

 

BackwoodsCustomCoatings im not breaking your balls...youre seriously crazy...

 

#10 Pizza Bob

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Posted 07 October 2011 - 04:52 PM

OK, I'm confused. NJ laws aside, according to the manufacturer, this is not a pistol, handgun, AOW or SBR......so what the heck is it???

I read the ATF letter, and while I am sure the manufacturer had it fully vetted by an attorney, I'm not seeing where it states this is not an SBR. It states that it does not meet the definition of a pistol or handgun and also that it is not an AOW - it does NOT specifically state that it is not an SBR. Maybe I'm missing something. Here's the letter...

http://www.franklina..._Letter__c_.pdf

We would have to know how it is classified in order to determine if it can be sold under state law.

What say you?

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#11 DevsAdvocate

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Posted 07 October 2011 - 05:11 PM

OK, I'm confused. NJ laws aside, according to the manufacturer, this is not a pistol, handgun, AOW or SBR......so what the heck is it???

I read the ATF letter, and while I am sure the manufacturer had it fully vetted by an attorney, I'm not seeing where it states this is not an SBR. It states that it does not meet the definition of a pistol or handgun and also that it is not an AOW - it does NOT specifically state that it is not an SBR. Maybe I'm missing something. Here's the letter...

http://www.franklina..._Letter__c_.pdf

We would have to know how it is classified in order to determine if it can be sold under state law.

What say you?

Adios,

Pizza Bob


It's in the wonderful part of the law where the law simply did not cover... the loophole.

#12 hmmjak

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Posted 07 October 2011 - 05:56 PM

while they don't specifically say if it is a SBR or not, it does look like they're comparing it to the thompson a5 and the loopholes that jumped through

i did find this showing the firearm in action.


in the video and on their website they market it as a pistol

edit: according to them under cali law it is defined as a pistol

#13 ianargent

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Posted 07 October 2011 - 06:14 PM

Um. That's beautiful. Can I buy it from an out of state FFL? What happens if it's a rifle in PA and a handgun in NJ when I cross the Delaware? For that matter, what happens if the BATFE agent sees me put it into a backpack?

(I think it's great!)

#14 quikz

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Posted 07 October 2011 - 08:05 PM

This will prolly be banned by 'name' eventually.

Why??? Because it looks soooo EEEEEVIL.............. :icon_rolleyes:

#15 DevsAdvocate

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Posted 07 October 2011 - 08:24 PM

This will prolly be banned by 'name' eventually.

Why??? Because it looks soooo EEEEEVIL.............. :icon_rolleyes:


Ban by name must be done via legislature...

#16 BMWR12

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Posted 07 October 2011 - 09:10 PM

It would probably considered a SBR or Assault pistol in NJ. Im pretty sure it fits the bill for both in NJ laws.

#17 PK90

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Posted 07 October 2011 - 09:24 PM

IMO, it is not legal in NJ.

It will transfer Federally as a pistol-gripped firearm, like a Mossberg 500 with only a pistol grip and no stock, to a person 21YOA or older. In NJ, a firearm can only be transferred as a long gun or a handgun. This firearm can not transfer as a long gun because of the barrel length. It also can not transfer as a handgun due to its weight.
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#18 ianargent

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Posted 07 October 2011 - 09:53 PM

Can it transfer from an out-of-state FFL to an NJ resident, though?
(I don't know the answer to that, not having particular interest in a pistol-grip shotty)

#19 Krdshrk

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Posted 07 October 2011 - 09:59 PM

Buy it from a PA Dealer? :)

-Nick
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#20 Dan

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Posted 07 October 2011 - 10:06 PM

NJ won't buy that it is not a rifle nor a pistol being it is "designed to be fired with two hands because of the forward grip" hence not a pistol, and will classify this as a pistol due to the barrel length and lack of a stock. Well over the NJ weight limit for a pistol , so a no go. Federal law looks at AR lowers as AOW's , but NJ views them as rifles for instance.. they want to see one or the other.

#21 Ray Ray

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Posted 07 October 2011 - 10:33 PM

Wow, interesting loop-hole. Who's gonna be the ginny pig?
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#22 vjf915

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Posted 07 October 2011 - 11:36 PM

Who's gonna be the ginny pig?

Just because I'm Italian doesn't mean these insults are appreciated.
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If I had to clean a gun my life depended on every day I'd be pissed off, you can't always do that. You should be able to kick the action open, piss in it, and close it. DONE.

+1 to you.. you have the single most important accessory ANY AR owner could ever own (myself included) and that is a backup AK..


#23 BlackOps Badger

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Posted 08 October 2011 - 02:59 AM

Just because I'm Italian doesn't mean these insults are appreciated.


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#24 Krdshrk

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Posted 08 October 2011 - 06:58 AM

You know Ray can't spell - he means Guinea Pig :)

-Nick
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This is gay.

I'm totally in.

 


#25 aguilar64

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Posted 08 October 2011 - 04:28 PM

That reminds me of the SlideFireSolution according to NJ State Police is illegal here, it doesn't matter what the ATF says.

#26 Wolfy

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Posted 08 October 2011 - 05:17 PM

Wow, interesting loop-hole. Who's gonna be the ginny pig?


I have dated a few ginny pigs!! But I am Italian so it's to be expected.
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#27 Pizza Bob

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Posted 08 October 2011 - 06:12 PM

That reminds me of the SlideFireSolution according to NJ State Police is illegal here, it doesn't matter what the ATF says.



Where did this come from? I was not aware of any ruling - besides the NJSP enforce the laws, not make them (wink, wink, nudge, nudge)

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#28 aguilar64

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Posted 08 October 2011 - 08:37 PM

Where did this come from? I was not aware of any ruling - besides the NJSP enforce the laws, not make them (wink, wink, nudge, nudge)

We were going to setup a dealer account, but we got an email from our NJSP "inspector" and told us that it was illegal here in New Jersey after he "NJSP" brought it up to his superiors and the NJ AG. =@ =@

#29 KpdPipes

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Posted 09 October 2011 - 11:22 AM

IMO, it is not legal in NJ.

It will transfer Federally as a pistol-gripped firearm, like a Mossberg 500 with only a pistol grip and no stock, to a person 21YOA or older. In NJ, a firearm can only be transferred as a long gun or a handgun. This firearm can not transfer as a long gun because of the barrel length. It also can not transfer as a handgun due to its weight.

This.. Sorry guys, but this thing is a ticket to a Indictable offense (Felony) Conviction in NJ.

#30 toothaik

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Posted 23 February 2012 - 03:22 PM

That reminds me of the SlideFireSolution according to NJ State Police is illegal here, it doesn't matter what the ATF says.


Hi All,

I'm new here and I was wondering about this. I just read N. J.A.C. Title 13 Chapter 54, and nowhere does it say that bump fire "stocks" are illegal. I also searched and couldn't find any "official public ruling" on the Slide Fire stock. Granted the Slide Fire people would not mail one to me here in The People's Republic of New Jersey. I asked one of the cops up at RTSP range here in Randolph, NJ if these things were legal. He told me the nobody knows as he had no knowledge of any specific challenges to the law here.

I'm thinking about contacting Evan Nappen's office (they say they're available for quick Q&A's via email). Will see what happens and report back.

Thanks.




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