ah yeah I looked and looked because I have thought at times about adding a brake.. totally missed it..

why would it not matter into parts count.. it is PART of the rifle?

It matters when there are exposed threads/removable device or not. For example, if you had a Russian made barrel with threads, and nothing screwed on, it counts for 922r purposes as having a foreign made part. If you were to attach a US brake, or even just a US made nut, it becomes a US part.

When the device is permanently attached (in a place like NJ, NY, etc) it becomes, for 922r purposes, simply part of the barrel. i.e. mine is pinned on in five places. It's the same as if you have a 14" barrel you'd have an SBR, a 14" barrel with a 2.1" long muzzle brake welded/pinned on (all work done by a properly licensed gunsmith of course) you don't have an SBR but simply a rifle. This is what I have gathered from ATF opinions.

Regardless, the brake is US made anyway, so even if they changed their mind, or my understanding is wrong, it's still 922r anyway. Nothing makes sense with when it comes to ATF regs/opinions (look up the ATF tech branch letter where they determined a 14" long shoelace is a machine gun) so it's best to make sure you're 110% legal.

it is still a countable part as far as I know.. ONLY because you are LITERALLY counting parts.. it doesnt matter for NJs standard of threaded barrel because as you said it is welded.. it could count for length if you needed it to... again because it is welded.. but I still think it counts in parts count.. but as you said.. doesnt matter since it is US made..

can anyone tell me if this would be a decent setup for the siaga. What else would be needed to make it 922r compliant

http://www.k-var.com/shop/product.php?p ... 335&page=1


SGL10W

that is cheap.. it would be a fine starting point.. and the rifle would be legal providing you are getting all three parts with the fire control group..

this is a good work sheet for conversions..

http://jobson.us/922r/

a Saiga starts off with 14 countable parts..
you add a pistol grip bumps it to 15 parts...

you then need to use 5 qualifying US made parts to get it down to 10..

providing all the following replacement parts are US in origin it would work like this..
pistol grip and stock are 1 each..
this gets you down to 13...
fire control group is NORMALLY 3..
gets you down to the legal count of 10..

could always use a US made hand guard just for one extra part to be safe..

I would ask them WHAT fire control group it includes and if it is THREE us made parts.. I have been really happy with the Tapco G2 units I have used and installed.. they are generally pretty smooth and clean..

So if you purchased a Saiga and bought that conversion kit imperialfish posted. Is that everything you would need to convert it to a "standard ak"? Also how hard is the conversion to do yourself?

easy.. and yes pretty much.. unless you want to do the FRONT end as well.. that gets tricky.. but they make some Saiga specific products..

it is all in how far you want to take it.. but that setup will get you there.. again providing that
a) all those parts are US made
and
b) the fire control group is comprised of 3 US parts..

as far as ease..

the saiga was my FIRST firearm.. and I had it apart and converted before EVER firing it.. they hand out AK series rifles to untrained peasants for a reason.. they are dead simple to operate and maintain.. and if you have ANY issues within the conversion I would be more than happy to guide you through it..

oh and that does NOT include converting it to accept AK mags.. which is a waste anyway in our state.. LOL

Yes, Arsenal's kits are US made.

That's a great price, however, it is not a good conversion kit for a newbie. First off, the trigger guard is a rivet-on not a bolt on one. Second, Arsenal triggers are double hook systems and you will need to grind a slot for that trigger to fit. And third and fourth, that one does not include a hammer, bullet guide or pin retention device. In short, that is NOT the conversion kit to buy if you are trying to convert. You will not have all the parts you need.

To convert a Saiga, you need:

AK Stock
AK Pistol Grip
AK Pistol Grip Nut and Screw
AK Trigger Group
AK Retaining Plate
AK Trigger Guard

To use AK magazines you'll need a bullet guide, and proper size drill bit and tap to install it (sold as kits) for either flat or round trunion depending what you have. If you want to use Surefire magazines skip the bullet guide.

All those parts are available at Carolinashooterssupply.com make sure you have them all in your cart, and you're good to go.

My dozen 15rd metal double stacks beg to differ

But yes, for the most part, going the bullet guide route is a waste here in NJ.

that is why I questioned the fire control group on several occasions.. as far as the trigger guard you don't need it.. it is just as easy to reuse the Saiga one..

right but it is just a pain in the a** IMO.. the point being sure if you have an AK AND a SAIGA then it makes PERFECT sense to do the conversion so you can share ONE magazine type.. but if you are JUST going with a Saiga doing the bullet guide is kind of pointless.. should we ever become a free state I will do the bullet guide that night.. lol it is NICE having the 30 round mag option..

Yeah, but these guys are noobs. So who knows if they'll destroy the damn thing or something.

Saiga magazines will fit in an AK or bullet guide converted Saiga. You just have to grind the little tab on the front of the Saiga magazines off. Depending on tolerances they may pop right in. So if you ever moved, etc. your magazines are not wasted

to rivet your trigger guard in its simple you need a vice a punch and a hammer. open the vice so the trigger guard fits in,, then place it all together and crush the 4 rivets from the inside you may flatten the heads but you can reshape them with a dremil then do the rear 1 ,, or buy a jig but it will look better then screws anyday.