Jump to content
  • entries
    10
  • comments
    148
  • views
    3,176

Are NJ Gun Owners Rats On A Sinking Ship?

Maksim

8,504 views

As the euphoria of the 2016 presidential elections is wearing off, another feeling is starting to creep in on gun owners throughout our state.  That feeling is one of great concern for the few gun rights we currently enjoy.

As Governor Christie's term is coming to an end, gun owners have to start accepting that in the near future, the few gun rights we currently enjoy are going to come under almost certain attack from politicians in the state.  Don't get me wrong, while Governor Christie has done nothing to improve gun rights in the state, at the very least he prevented more bad legislation from taking effect.  As the thought of a Liberal Democratic Governor is an utmost certainty, Democrats are going to have free reign over screwing over further restricting gun rights and enacting harsh legislations that will hamper the 2nd Amendment. 

But wait... there is a chance, there are two Republicans running in this race, you say. Let's be realistic.

First, over the last 100 years, only once has the incumbent party kept the Governor's office for a third term, after a Governor termed out.  That occurred in 1962 when Democrat Richard Hughes won office after two terms of fellow Democrat Robert Meyner. 

Secondly, does anyone in their right minds think that a Republican can win after the "BridgeGate" Scandal and Governor Christie's close association to President Trump?

In either case, neither of the Republican candidates have the financial or the political capital to compete with Phil Murphy.  (who is having ex VP Joe Biden fly in for a campaign visit)

Short of a miracle, NJ residents better get used to the idea of Governor Phil Murphy.

So What Does A Governor Murphy Mean For Gun Owners?

The idea of a Governor Murphy should frighten any gun owner in the state, wishing and willing to give anything to have a "moderate" Sweeney over Liberal Murphy.

To get an idea of the gun agenda, we take a look at what Phil Murphy has on his website, Murphy4NJ.com,

Quote

Sign commonsense legislation that Christie vetoed: Phil Murphy would start by signing every piece of gun violence prevention legislation that Governor Christie has vetoed.

These bipartisan measures would have kept guns out of the hands of gang members and individuals convicted of making terroristic threats (without due process), restricted the size of gun magazines, and prohibited the sale of a powerful .50-caliber rifle.

The website further goes to point out the legislation that would prevent persons on the various government watch lists from being able to purchase a firearm. While this is the most "sensible" legislation, it failed for one key reason, there was ZERO due process for person's on those watch lists.  People on the no fly lists, such as Senator Ted Kennedy, Congressman John Lewis, and CNN reporter Drew Griffin would not be allowed to purchase firearms.  

Beyond that, it would mean Phil Murphy would sign legislation that would confiscate guns from people accused of non-violent domestic issues and limits on the firearms that you may own, including lower magazine limits

To take the ridiculous to the next level, Phil Murphy proposes the following,

Quote
  • Mandate gun safety training: No one should be able to purchase a firearm without first attending a gun safety training course.
  • Promote smart gun technology: We must regain our position as a leader in the smart gun movement by requiring all gun retailers to carry at least one smart gun once they are commercially available.
  • Tax gun sales to prevent violence: All gun sales should be subject to a tax that will fund law enforcement, drug treatment centers, and mental health services.
  • Strengthen regulations on gun transfers: Phil Murphy would make it a crime to sell guns without conducting a mandatory background check, and would require individuals to register their firearms kept in the state.
  • Prohibit the "sale of a powerful .50-caliber rifle."

Required Gun Safety Training

As they say, the road to hell is paved with good intentions.   These good intentions seem "sensible" to the common resident of New Jersey, but they are surely hell for any gun owner.

Look, I am ALL FOR gun owners having safety training and technological improvements that would be helpful for those looking for it, HOWEVER, since when can the government restrict a God given right?

Are people required to take a public speaking class before talking to anyone?  Perhaps they should be, but just like free speech, and UNLIKE driving, the right to keep and bear arms.... is a right, and not a privilege.  

Are gun owners who do not take the "mandated gun safety training" to be considered "un-trustworthy"? 

If so, prior to the 1938 Regulations Against Jews' Possession of Weapons in Nazi Germany, Jews were disarmed by the police on the basis that "the Jewish population 'cannot be regarded as trustworthy'"  On that basis, who is to control the educational requirements? Who sets the agenda? Do we have the same educational requirements before we go buy a bottle of Vodka or a kitchen knife?  Are gun owners who do not complete this education requirement going to be stripped of their guns and GUN RIGHTS?

More importantly, who is going to pay for this training?

As much as I am all for gun owners taking gun training classes, I do not see anywhere in the Constitution or the Bill of Rights anything related to being "educated" before practicing a right.

Smart Guns

The problem here is what is not told.  The NJ Smart Gun laws would REQUIRE every gun sold in NJ to be a "smart gun" once one is commercially available. Yep.... so unless they repeal the existing law, this should be a non starter for ANYONE.  Beyond that, do we require every grocery stores to carry certain items?  Why should gun store owners and operators be TOLD what they HAVE TO offer.

Gun Sales Tax

How do you make sure you keep poor people poor?  You keep on taxing them.  

One thing that I have learned over the last 9 years with NJ Gun Forums is that gun owners in this state comes from all demographic groups.  For every affluent gun owner, there are 20 people who love shooting but have to scrape up every cent they can save in order to fund their new gun purchase.  

Any firearms sales tax is only going to hurt gun buyers, and more importantly will hurt the vendors in the state.  The ONLY people who will be winning are the gun dealers in PA and Delware who will be more than happy to sell their guns to NJ gun buyers.

Required NICS and Gun Registration

Hold on there... didn't the municipality and the state police just do the extensive background check when they issued that FID and those brand spanking new pistol permits?

I think it is a good idea to do a NICS check anyway, but it is yet annother financial burden and expense.  There is a $15 nics charge in NJ, because NJ gets its grubby paws on it, rather than the federal NICS system used in most of Free America.  Are NICS checks going to be free for everyone in NJ?

Gun Registration? The state police and the municipality already have those records every time a pistol permit gets sent in.  But in any case... you know who also had mandatory gun registrations?  Hitler, Stalin and Mao all enacted gun registration and subsequent gun confiscation before they murdered millions of political dissidents.  (all under good intentions of course).

Quote

“The most foolish mistake we could possibly make would be to allow the subject races to possess arms.  History shows that all conquerors who have allowed their subject races to carry arms have prepared their own downfall by so doing.  Indeed, I would go so far as to say that the supply of arms to the underdogs is a sine qua non for the overthrow of any sovereignty. So let’s not have any native militia or native police. German troops alone will bear the sole responsibility for the maintenance of law and order throughout the occupied Russian territories, and a system of military strong-points must be evolved to cover the entire occupied country.” - Adolph Hitler, April 1942

 

Ban on 50 Caliber Rifles

Seriously?  Again?

Can any politician give a realistic reason to ban all 50 caliber rifles?

When was the last time that a criminal committed a crime in NJ with a 50 caliber... flintlock, 50 Beowolf, 500 Nitro Express or muzzle loader.... those are after all more likely to be in someone's gun collection than a $5k or more expensive Barrett 50 BMG.    Heck, why not go after 600/700 Nitro Express, 500 S&W, 50 Action Express too. 

The biggest risk to airplanes (the commonly cited 2010 case) is not a guy with a 50 caliber rifle, but rather the broken infrastructure all around.   

Bottom Line

"Power tends to corrupt, and absolute power corrupts absolutely." - John Acton

A democrat in the governor's office and a democrat controlled legislature is grim news for New Jersey and anyone concerned with gun rights.

What's different this time is that it is a top item for Democrats eager to do anything to act out against President Trump.

There are many gun rights advocates in the state who will say we have to rise up and fight.  Unfortunately I don't think it will make any difference this time for the simple facts that the powers that be both do not understand gun issues, nor CARE about your rights. 

For those that can leave, it may be opportune to do as @Pizza Bob says in every post "adios."   For everyone else left behind, hang on, it's going to be a bumpy ride.

-Maks

For further reading and discussion on this topic I recommend, 

While we typically do not have political topics out in general discussion, @67gtonut has set up a special section dedicated to the 2017 NJ Gubernatorial Race, We look forward to seeing you there.

https://www.njgunforums.com/forum/index.php?/forum/189-new-jersey-gubernatorial-election-2017/

  • Like 4


38 Comments


Recommended Comments



I am not into politics.... never was, and still only dabble at the edge. But from what I am seeing for our future in this corrupt state, I want out. As soon as I can cut ties with NJ, the house will go up for sale. And it has much more than gun laws to do with it....

I cannot fathom why in order to own a nice home in NJ, it must include $1000/mo or more in Property taxes. When other states can do it for 75% less. This alone could be the reason for leaving.....

  • Like 3

Share this comment


Link to comment

Which is why I am seriously considering leaving in a very few short years.

 

  • Like 2

Share this comment


Link to comment

Maksim's post is a well reasoned and constructed argument, proceeding from a position of freedom, historical perspective, and common sense.

Phil Murphy and the rest of the progressive Democrat NJ government do not occupy the same logical space. They proceed from the assumption that they know what's best for us, the rest of us don't, and therefore it's incumbent on them to place us in an ever tightening legal straitjacket until they accomplish their ultimate objective: confiscation.

My wife and I have waited together for over 42 years for something to change for the better. It hasn't. It's getting worse. And the demographics in this state offer no reasonable hope that it will get better.

The two of us are out of time. So we already have one foot out the door.

  • Like 3

Share this comment


Link to comment

I work from home, so if I didn't have an elderly parent in NJ, I'd be gone already - even if it was just to hop over the border into friendlier, less expensive Pennsylvania.

The gun issue, though certainly important, is merely one tiny slice of everything that's wrong with the state - a trend toward increasing gov't control and decreasing individual freedom cuts across MANY issues. The cost, bureaucracy and aggravation that results from that trend is just not worth the "benefits" of living here.

  • Like 7

Share this comment


Link to comment
3 hours ago, 45Doll said:

Maksim's post is a well reasoned and constructed argument, proceeding from a position of freedom, historical perspective, and common sense.

Phil Murphy and the rest of the progressive Democrat NJ government do not occupy the same logical space. They proceed from the assumption that they know what's best for us, the rest of us don't, and therefore it's incumbent on them to place us in an ever tightening legal straitjacket until they accomplish their ultimate objective: confiscation.

My wife and I have waited together for over 42 years for something to change for the better. It hasn't. It's getting worse. And the demographics in this state offer no reasonable hope that it will get better.

The two of us are out of time. So we already have one foot out the door.

Well said!  My wife and I are in a similar situation.  Even if we don't move right away, we're planning to purchase a property in another state, so I'll at least have a place to keep my stuff when it becomes illegal here in NJ. 

  • Like 1

Share this comment


Link to comment

Well one thing I'll add to this, having gone to Trenton for hearings a couple of years ago - when this next round starts PLEASE go but dress in a suit and tie or at least business casual attire.  Don't go wearing gun related hats and shirts and the likes, it only plays into their narrative that we are gun nuts.  Let them see us as normal everyday hard working citizens.

 

While it is hard to change their minds based on facts we need to get them to see the error in their ways of wanting to ban things.  I like this analogy, it makes little sense to require hybrid cars to double their gas mileage to improve the fuel economy of tractor trailers - the same applies to gun regulations.  Taking away larger magazines or restricting the rights of those that already obey gun laws does nothing to reduce CRIMINAL gun usage.  The solution is to enforce the laws already on the books and to stop the plea bargains they give where they don't press the gun charges on criminals.

  • Like 1

Share this comment


Link to comment

To be optimistic: I hope that they go so far that the Supreme's are finally able to save us.

  • Like 2

Share this comment


Link to comment

best pay close attention to the .50cal bill..........dollars to donuts that will ban EVERYTHING .50cal and up......not just the spokey Barrett rifle.........

1 hour ago, Newtonian said:

Does NJ2AS want what happened in my district to happen in the 11th as well?

What happened in the 11th?

Edited by Krdshrk

Share this comment


Link to comment
54 minutes ago, Cemeterys Gun Blob said:

best pay close attention to the .50cal bill..........dollars to donuts that will ban EVERYTHING .50cal and up......not just the spokey Barrett rifle.........

What happened in the 11th?

the 11th is Frelinghuysen's district. He's apparently under pressure to vote for and against the reciprocity bill. He should abstain or vote against it if he doesn't want his seat to switch over to a Hillary-type Democrat. We lost Scott Garrett up here in the 3rd because the "Tea Party" decided to weaken Garrett by challenging him with a used car salesman. Our reward: we had the most conservative congressman in washington. Now we have a former Clinton speechwriter. 

 

 

Share this comment


Link to comment

We are also planning to purchase out of state property. But for us it's a feel-good solution that doesn't accomplish a goddamn thing. I can carry a gun for a couple of years, before I'm either a cripple or judged mentally incompetent. Everything else that's wrong with the USA continues. 

Share this comment


Link to comment

Where do you guys find 'less expensive' in PA? No matter where I point on other side of the river I find 100+ years old homes for $700k and stuff in PA...

Share this comment


Link to comment
Just now, Oleg said:

Where do you guys find 'less expensive' in PA? No matter where I point on other side of the river I find 100+ years old homes for $700k and stuff in PA...

Look past Bucks county if you can.

But... plenty of good homes for far less than $700k.  Then if you really want cheap, look up towards Poconos or West.

Share this comment


Link to comment

Copying maskim not sure how to quote part of another post  

 

So What Does A Governor Murphy Mean For Gun Owners?

The idea of a Governor Murphy should frighten any gun owner in the state, wishing and willing to give anything to have a "moderate" Sweeney over Liberal Murphy.

Forgive me for saying (thinking) this but if we all feel we have no chance we might as well vote for Sweeney. The better of two evils. 

 

Share this comment


Link to comment

At this point...... IF Sweeney was running, he would actually look great compared to what we will end up with

Share this comment


Link to comment
21 hours ago, Nickjc said:

 

The 2a in NJ is dead, done kaput.

 

Businesses around it and supported by the lifestyle will be done as well.....they will not survive.

when the 50 ban comes..

......all the muzzle loaders the Fudd rely on......  the shotguns with slug barrels.... .69 caliber.....and bigger....get scooped up...it will serve the 'sportsmen' right and get what they deserve for their apathy.

Pretty much this........just like CA, nothing gun owners can do at this point.  Nothing left but to move.

Oh, and to all those 'I'll just purchase out of state'....good luck with that.  The ID card Sweeney, and Murphy will push will only be able to read by NJ vendors.....feature, not a bug or flaw. 

  • Like 1

Share this comment


Link to comment

"......all the muzzle loaders the Fudd rely on......  the shotguns with slug barrels.... .69 caliber.....and bigger....get scooped up...it will serve the 'sportsmen' right and get what they deserve for their apathy."

 

Nah, Anthony Mauro of the NJOA will take Don Norcross on a scuba adventure, then take Stephen Sweeney out for a steak dinner and will triumph a compromise before the 11th hour. The NJOA will be heralded as the savior, and will continue to befuddle the fudd's. 

 

 

  • Like 1

Share this comment


Link to comment

Problem with NJ gun owners are we are as diverse as our population.

We have gun owners that are fall with all political parties.
while most do lean right there are some that no doubt lean left from our perspective but are
centrists according to them.

The other problem is people complain a lot but don't get out and vote, Donate to candidates that support the 2nd AD.

We cant beat the left in NJ by going for the gold. We need to Baby Step it...  Target 1 candidate at a time. This is the only way to give us a chance.

 

  • Like 2

Share this comment


Link to comment

This election will certainly be an uphill battle, but approaching it as though it is already lost would be a mistake.  

Share this comment


Link to comment

A few things mentioned here that are counter-productive in the argument of maintaining the 2A, and such views prevent a productive conversation. The "other side" is also guilty of uneducated views, but arguably with a bit more common sense.

In any case, I want to touch on this point which is an example of the above:

"Look, I am ALL FOR gun owners having safety training and technological improvements that would be helpful for those looking for it, HOWEVER, since when can the government restrict a God given right?"

Man.. you sounded so intelligent for a second until the end. sigh

Since when is bearing arms a God given right? Did you come out the womb holding a rifle? The first firearm came about when? 1300s? Where was God before this? Do you feel the same way about an American hating Muslim that wants to unleash violence in the name of God? Is he/she given the right from God to bear arms in your town? Respectfully, who the f are you to strip that right from him/her?

Since when can the government restrict the God given right to drive a car? to drive after downing a 12 pack? and to do so at any speed past a school at 3pm? to fly drones over an airstrip? Do I sound stupid yet? I can keep going..

It would be great if I saw more conversations on here on how to actually improve the vetting around firearm purchases and usage. But no, just a lot of whining with selfish/one-sided views. So when the other side barks, we just bark back.

Woof.

Share this comment


Link to comment
2 minutes ago, Pizza Bob said:

This is just a guess, but I expect your tenure here to be a short one.

Adios,

Pizza Bob

I wouldn't doubt it. 2A > 1A , am I right?

How about engaging in a conversation that doesn't align 100% with your views? Just a thought. tc

Share this comment


Link to comment

I am really loathe to respond to your bait, because it just gives you undeserved attention. However, there are several points that need to be addressed.

First are your disparaging remarks about "God given rights". The bill of rights does not grant you those rights, it simply enumerates them. For those that are religious, that would be interpreted as "God given". For those of us that are not religious they would be natural rights. The 2A is actually the right of self-preservation.

Driving a car or flying a drone are not rights. A more accurate analogy would be, do you want the government to vet you before it allows you to practice the religion of your choice?

In your opening paragraph you have already given yourself away when you allude to the "other side's" argument as possibly having more "common sense" - a buzz-word used by the anti-2A faction for years. They have no common sense. An element of common sense requires logic - the arguments they make to oppress our right are based on emotion, not logic.

There is no compromise when it comes to the 2A. The antis have been selling the "compromise" paradigm for years. Their definition of compromise is that we give up something and get nothing in return - I don't think that is how Webster defines compromise.

If you truly believe what you wrote, you are part of the problem, not part of the solution.

I'm done here - I will give you no more recognition and I hope that my fellow board members feel and act likewise. Be gone troll.

Adios,

Pizza Bob

  • Like 13

Share this comment


Link to comment
15 minutes ago, Pizza Bob said:

I am really loathe to respond to your bait, because it just gives you undeserved attention. However, there are several points that need to be addressed.

First are your disparaging remarks about "God given rights". The bill of rights does not grant you those rights, it simply enumerates them. For those that are religious, that would be interpreted as "God given". For those of us that are not religious they would be natural rights. The 2A is actually the right of self-preservation.

Driving a car or flying a drone are not rights. A more accurate analogy would be, do you want the government to vet you before it allows you to practice the religion of your choice?

In your opening paragraph you have already given yourself away when you allude to the "other side's" argument as possibly having more "common sense" - a buzz-word used by the anti-2A faction for years. They have no common sense. An element of common sense requires logic - the arguments they make to oppress our right are based on emotion, not logic.

There is no compromise when it comes to the 2A. The antis have been selling the "compromise" paradigm for years. Their definition of compromise is that we give up something and get nothing in return - I don't think that is how Webster defines compromise.

If you truly believe what you wrote, you are part of the problem, not part of the solution.

I'm done here - I will give you no more recognition and I hope that my fellow board members feel and act likewise. Be gone troll.

Adios,

Pizza Bob

Bob,

  WOW! That was one of the best posts I have ever seen on this forum! I could not have said it better myself! We think alike. Live long and prosper!

Share this comment


Link to comment
On 1/8/2018 at 7:50 PM, bigbear said:

"Look, I am ALL FOR gun owners having safety training and technological improvements that would be helpful for those looking for it, HOWEVER, since when can the government restrict a God given right?"

Man.. you sounded so intelligent for a second until the end. sigh

Is ones right to protect him or herself a god given right... I would say yes.  People are no doubt programmed to defend themselves. We are not in anyway programmed to lay down and die. Some would say that is something programmed from god himself.

 

Since when is bearing arms a God given right? Did you come out the womb holding a rifle? The first firearm came about when? 1300s? Where was God before this? Do you feel the same way about an American hating Muslim that wants to unleash violence in the name of God? Is he/she given the right from God to bear arms in your town? Respectfully, who the f are you to strip that right from him/her?

I think this argument is sorta stupid... We are not born with tools.  We are born with the will to survive. Defending ones self is part of that.

 

Since when can the government restrict the God given right to drive a car? to drive after downing a 12 pack? and to do so at any speed past a school at 3pm? to fly drones over an airstrip? Do I sound stupid yet? I can keep going..

Yes

 

It would be great if I saw more conversations on here on how to actually improve the vetting around firearm purchases and usage. But no, just a lot of whining with selfish/one-sided views. So when the other side barks, we just bark back.

How many legally obtained firearms are used in crimes?  I find it interesting that the "Other Side" loves to question the rights of gun owners under the banner of  "If it saves one life". Meanwhile open borders, Mass migration, Handcuffing and attacking those who have been put in charge of safety and maintaining order. Lowering sentences of those convicted of crimes etc etc are all part of the other sides policy.

The end game is a simple one... Guns Bad everything else good. Why exactly do they want to restrict gun ownership in this country you may ask. Simple an unarmed population is easy to control.  Just look at Antifa... Attacking people over speech.. the left have embraced this..

 

On 1/8/2018 at 7:50 PM, bigbear said:

 

 

Share this comment


Link to comment

Guest
Add a comment...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
×
×
  • Create New...