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Just had my hearing in Burlington County. Judge confirmed I’m the first in our county. Just asked to confirm make and model. Read restricted places to me. Carry IS NOT restricted in our vehicles. Said he’s signing today and putting in the mail and that I should have physical permit by the end of the week but that I am approved.

It's in my wife's purse.

Just had my hearing in Burlington County. Judge confirmed I’m the first in our county. Just asked to confirm make and model. Read restricted places to me. Carry IS NOT restricted in our vehicles. Said he’s signing today and putting in the mail and that I should have physical permit by the end of the week but that I am approved.

The original article writer, John Petrolino responded to my inquiry as follows: "Please feel free to share the following: On Gun For Hire Radio Episode 588, August 27, 2022 (https://gunforhire.com/blog/the-gun-for-hire-radio-broadcast-episode-588/), Anthony Colandro had Dan Schmutter (the attorney litigating the case) on the show to discuss several different pieces of pending litigation and other topics. Schmutter opened with talking about this case and here is a transcript of the conversation: Schmutter: So unfortunately, guys, I have to open with some not great news. We just heard from the Court of Appeals for the Third Circuit. In the magazine case, we were hoping to keep the case up at the Court of Appeals and have…ask the Court of Appeals…and we have asked The Court of Appeals to decide the case on the merits right now. The state was urging them to send it back down to the trial court, the District Court. And unfortunately, we got a two one ruling today that the Third Circuit decided to send it back down to the District Court. And what that does is it just adds another layer of delay. And cost. And so unfortunately, you know, now we're back at the District Court, we have to do that all over again. We'll probably end up back at the Court of Appeals, you know, whichever way it goes, somebody's not gonna be happy. So, you know, it's unfortunate. We were, we were urging the court to not, you know, give in to the state's request to add more delay in cost. And it was a two, one decision. We got a very nice dissenting opinion from Judge Paul meaty. And he agreed with us that there was no reason to send it back down to the trial court, you know, the usual…it is very typical for when something comes down from the Supreme Court for the Court of Appeals to send it all the way back down to the trial court. But that's not unusual. It's actually quite typical. The problem is, in this case, it's not necessary. And there's plenty of precedent for not doing that where it's not necessary or appropriate. And I think we made a very strong case that it's not. But, you know, the court did with the court didn't so we have to live with it. And so we'll you know, we'll fight the fight down at the District Court. But it's disappointing. I mean, they really, you know, our feeling was they should have done the right thing here and just kept it, decided it. And, you know, but that's, that's life. Colandro: Now, what do we face at the District Court? Is it one judge? Is it a panel? Schmutter: Yeah it's one judge, the original trial judge that heard it the first time. He gets it back, but he gets it back under a new set of rules. He gets it back now under the rules from the Bruen decision. And so you know, in a sense, he's not starting from scratch because there is a record. It's not like we're starting with a blank slate here. There is a record and there is a favorable record. So, in the sense that we think that the some of the findings that the court made the first time around are very, very helpful to us. So, you know the court is presumably gonna reach out to us at some point soon to, you know, we'll probably have a conference, the court will probably want to know how the parties think the case should proceed, and we'll go from there. And we'll develop our strategy as to what the what the right way to move this forward is. And we'll move it forward. It's just disappointing that we're going to be doing this in a in a court where we really shouldn't have to be. But you know, as you know, we know, as it's a slog, it's a marathon, and we're going to continue fighting. I mean, it's, there's no question or option we're gonna keep this moving. And, you know, we like our chances. We think that…we've talked about this quite a few times now, about how we think Bruen gives us some very, very good tools. And we're going to bring those to bear in the District Court on this case. We'll see what happens. When there's a development, you'll certainly…I hope you'll have me back to talk about it. And we'll see what we'll go from there. ### The remand from the Third Circuit back to the lower court can be read here: https://reason.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/08/NJRifle.pdf As Rooney pointed out in his article (https://savejersey.com/2022/08/3rd-circuit-punts-n-j-10-round-magazine-ban-case-back-to-district-court/), Judge Paul Matey's dissent is worth a full read. The quick answer is we've been punted back down, again, but that does not mean we're starting from square one. Will we see 15 rounders again in New Jersey? Will we see them by year's end? Will we see magazines larger than 15 rounds in NJ? All great questions, but it's hard to read how this is going to go down. As far as the NYSRPA v. Bruen decision goes, it's clear that putting a restriction on a standard capacity magazine would be unconstitutional, as such restrictions would not have been acceptable at the time of our founding. Hope this helps. Please feel free to zap me a line if you have more questions or have other tips, leads, etc. Regards, John Petrolino www.thepenpatriot.com" I invite you to contact John directly as he is a 2A supporter and a NJ Resident

Thanks, I read it over and I’m not convinced.. it states that judges must review carry permits and appeals at least once every 30 days and should not exceed that 30 day timeframe without good cause. now I’m not a lawyer, I’m just your average everyday guy but.. my understanding of that is they have to review at least once every 30 days, doesn’t say they have to approve or deny. Also doesn’t say that it’s automatically approved if no action is taken

Interesting.. guess that would mean there won’t be any restrictions

Meet me at the bar and I'll show ya.

I had to renew my Utah and took a "selfie" against a white cinderblock wall. They accepted it and now my Utah permit looks like a prison photo. Lol

Not true. It may not be a common occurrence, but I know for a fact that the engaged safety on a S&W 4013 saved the life of a co-worker when someone took his gun, put it to his chest, pulled the trigger, and got a dead trigger instead of a bang. Not chambering a round is the stupidest thing you can do when carrying a gun. Engaging a manual safety, if the pistol if so equipped, is appropriate. Carrying an unloaded gun is borderline suicidal. You can’t compare that Israeli garbage technique to using a manual safety appropriately. The manipulation of most pistol safeties adds zero time to a draw. I also guarantee I can draw and fire my 1911 (scoring an a zone hit) as fast if not faster than you can any striker fired gun. Tell some of these Tier 1 guys still carrying 1911s or these GM Competition shooters with their 1911 and 2011 pattern guns, all with manual safeties, that they are slow. They will burn you down on a shot timer. Ultimately, I don’t know if any of this really matters in the grand scheme of things, as my personal CCW choices reflect, but they are choices to be made in the real world and should be considered when choosing a gun you are comfortable betting your life on AND when deciding what skills and TTPs you are going to train.

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It really is crazy. Those judges are literally telling people to take a handgun out in public and operate it. I made seven or eight stops today, imagine I had to remove the handgun and unload it each time, then reload it again?

All while praying that you don't have a failure to feed, have enough space to manipulate the slide without short stroking, and...having 1 less round available to you.

Not a very good technique if your support hand is unavailable for some reason: Managing a child, grappling with your assailant, injured, etc.

Timelines for issuance are useless without consequences for those who don't follow them. Why should they care? New Jersey never followed their timelines before. Just look at the history of FID and P2Ps...

You’re right. Have a nice day.

I think this has turned into a good discussion. Ultimately i think a lot comes down to personal preference and practice. As above, practice is the great equalizer. I work from home a lot, so i'm constantly dry firing and practicing drawing while on conference calls. Helps to pass the time and build muscle memory...

A week or so ago the 3rd circuit punted the mag ban case down to the district court - it’s like starting all over again. I saw the source on njguns Reddit - I need to find the source edit: found it on a different site https://savejersey.com/2022/08/3rd-circuit-punts-n-j-10-round-magazine-ban-case-back-to-district-court/

No worries. I took my own photos on my phone and used an online service called makepassportphoto.com. They charged $2.99 to format the pictures correctly at 1.5” x 1.5”. I took those files and emailed them to Walgreens and printed them for .80 cents. Easy peasy.

Has anyone heard anything in Union County? I cant find any information on anybody getting a permit issued so far.

Deactivating the safety, or forgetting to is the result of insufficient training and practice. I compete with striker fired guns without manual safeties (Glock, P320, XD/XDm) and guns with manual safeties (1911, BHP, CZ75). I have no issue making the gun go bang when I want it to from the draw. If you don't handle your gun regularly, yes you could fluff the safety. You could also get a bad grip, not have your sights aligned at the end of the draw stroke, all sorts of things. I have even seen a gun get pulled from the holster and tossed across the range as a competitor swept his concealment garment out of the way - his hand never touched the gun and he earned himself a DQ. Words from top tier guys - "You might practice until you get it right. We practice until we can't get it wrong."

Nothing new. Of the places that will even ship to nj, most ask for FID.

$20K really is the bottom figure as you well noted. It just goes up from there. From what I've read, upwards of 100K in fees for a criminal defense case involving homicide, for instance, is not at all uncommon, particularly if expert witnesses need to be pulled in, etc. And I would think that those higher fees might be even more common in a high-cost, 2A-hostile state such as ours. That's a lot of expense. I dare say it's enough to ruin many households financially... while others with even less money would simply have to roll the dice and put their freedom in the hands of a young, wet-behind-the-ears public defender. Eegads! I'd say all of that heartache is worth avoiding for $200 a year.

Still, $200 a year for a legal defense that could be $20,000 or more seems like a great deal.

After each shot you must reload the case with a single stage press.

Maybe y'all can get something like this and wear it around your neck.

I don't think anyone has crossed that bridge yet. N.J.S.A. 2C:58-4c says the permit is automatically approved if the PD takes no action in 60 days, but doesn't address what happens next or what time limit may apply to the court.

Congrats

Maybe he doesn't anymore but I was at a seminar years ago and he said if you have a backdoor and it's accessable you better retreat out of it. Maybe I heard it out of context. Idk.

Why? Even with shipping its usually cheaper than at the local range. And in NJ they currently have been keeping track of ammo purchases already. I think the store had to keep a copy just in case. Now I think the new law requires ammo purchase info in NJ to be sent to state.

Just make sure sure the camera is not on, lol. I'm on teams calls all day, half of them with the camera on.

Thanks for the information

I got gas for $3.29 today. I'm trying to figure out if this is more of decreased demand or more of the emptying of the strategic oil reserves. There was an article posted a page back about gas consumption pretty much decreasing since 2020. However, it has been rather obvious that gas prices have not followed that pattern.

Great to see people getting out in South Jersey

Great time today! Thanks for organizing and putting out the invite Scorp’! Heres a few random pics.. always great to get some younger and newer shooters in the mix…. And us old guys who can’t miss with those fancy long barreled guns. We need to be challenged so why not bust out with some tactical and shockwave guns to dust some clays! Now that was a challenge!

My grandma doesn’t knit, but she could bake up Kydex with the best of them As far as the derailment, I still want to go to the bottom of this. The discussion was about removing a firearm from your person and locking it in a box in your vehicle. That is when Rambo very affirmatively said “the firearm MUST be in a holster”. I don’t believe that is true in any respect, and I would like to give him a chance to prove his assertion.

I just wanna know if @Variant's grandma will also knit me a holster? Sorry. aboutthatthreadderailmenttho?

Keep in mind I carry a Glock AIWB daily with no additional safety features and am comfortable doing so. That being said, your idea of what protections a manual safety provides is a little off. A manual safety is not for when the gun is fully seated in the holster. The most “dangerous” moment for self inflicted damage when carrying a handgun AIWB is the final push to “click” the gun back into the holsters retention. A manual safety is for the instant the gun “clicks” out of holster retention until the moment it “clicks” back in. A manual safety is for every moment the weapon is un-holstered and not pointed at something you are willing to kill or destroy. It is for every moment you don’t have a a safe background or clear foreground. Think of how a safety is used on an AR. It’s the same for a handgun. If so equipped, the safety on any firearm stays engaged until you have an acceptable sight picture on a legitimate target and you have made a conscious decision to fire.

Got mine in Manchester(Ocean County). No restrictions on the permit. submitted ppwk and prints on 7/5 picked up permit on 8/16.

Okay, so who’s to say you’re going to remember to flip that safety when you need to draw? It works both ways. I just don’t see how in your pants, in a good holster, the manual safety is doing anything to protect your twig and berries over a striker fired gun. In the holster it’s doing literally nothing. the original post I replied to made it seem like a manual safety is somehow helping the gun not shoot your nuts off.

Who better? Who better than SCOTUS? Judges are free to apply all applicable laws that do not interfere with the ruling of Bruen. These Judges aren't idiots who need someone to tell them what to do, they widely do what ever they want until something occurs where they don't have that option anymore and now require "guidance", because they know damn well they can't do what they want to on their own. Anything less/more is malicious, IMO.

Glocks and the like have become so prevalent that the manual safety is quickly becoming the manual transmission of anti-theft devices. Kinda.

I guess they don't know how to dial the NJSTers who have been handing out permits with no Judgy involvement to X-leo's for a long time.

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As per your GFH instructor that document was given to you as a FYI only. GFH didn’t say that document was to accompany your application. The link below instructs you want to turn in with your application, they need no more and no less.... https://www.nj.gov/oag/njsp/firearms/pdf/Permit_To_Carry_Instructions.pdf

All well and good, however, this ragtag community of gun owners needs to gain as much ground as fast as possible. I too will take what I can but I’m not satisfied with everything that Bruen has given us in theory and that NJ is doing in practice. If we sit back with a piece of the win, then NJ will oblige us and squeeze our rights down. Ocean and Monmouth county courts need to be made an example of in the most extreme manner possible. They need to humiliated and slapped down so other judges will not follow. Thanks

Edison Very professional and responsive

We are back in NJ for a long weekend mid October….just sayen. Lol

For online handgun ammo, if they ship to NJ, they will require copy of FID and sometimes also copy of DL.

That is normal, I use SGammo.com they will prompt you to provide your FPID along with your driver's license and it will remain with them on file for seamless purchasing and they usually have a good turn around time.