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I know th is wont change the mind of those who are deeply rooted in their beliefs but I will say my peace and maybe itll make sense to those who have never considered this point of view. I do not agree and will not support mandated training. Follow me on this logic. 2A at its heart is for defense from tyranny (and thus self preservation aka self defense) Tyranny from federal, state, local, it doesnt matter. If it is local tyranny you appeal up the chain of command, and ultimately if even the highest levels of government is still oppressive, 2A is a doomsday prevision. Now to claim that your right to own a gun is contingent on you take training... and this training is mandated by the very government that the 2A was written to safeguard against, is incompatible with the heart of 2A. Now I love training, i recommend and encourage training. But telling me that I cannot own a gun, until I satisfy the whims of the government, which the 2A was put in place to put in check, created a system where they can make the training so cumbersome that very little people can/will get approved. Does ANY of this sound even a tad familiar? Yet there are people who will still push mandatory training, like NJ will never take advantage of that...

The amount of infighting only benefits the anti-gunners. Everyone is a legal scholar behind the keyboard but have probably never made an argument in court. Neither have I. What I do know if that shaking your fist and saying I have a right means absolutely nothing if you don't play the game. The game being fighting for those rights either at the ballot box or the courts, and having them affirmed. Now predictably, someone will read that and say I don't need anyone to affirm what right I know I have. Unfortunately that is NOT reality. Case in point, try carrying a gun openly while screaming its my right and see how far you get. There is a system in play and we must work within that system to get what we want.

^^^^Well Said!^^^^ It's common sense that it's our duty to remove a tyrannical government with the force of guns! Therefore, the tyrannical government can't have power to remove those guns making it impossible to overthrow them! Our forefathers knew this and that is why the Bill of Rights was written as it was! There should be NO debate about the government controlling our guns or our right to have them!

The way I was taught, The rights in the Bill of Rights were not given to us by those who penned them. Those rights were given to us from God! Those unalienable rights were enumerated to say that NO government can ever touch those rights as they were God given! God gave us the rights and New Jersey, nor any state or federal government have the right to take them away!

While I strongly support both, I think the First Amendment is potentially more dangerous than the Second.

Welcome back to the Glorious Democratic People's Republik. Many outdoor ranges in NJ allow steel, some even provide hangers. Check websites or call ahead to find out their policy. If you are shopping for a range to join, ask here. We've been to all of 'em, and if you want to check out a place, you can probably get an invite. I hope you also brought a shotgun with you. Every couple of few months we have informal clay shoots at Clinton and Stafford Forge WMAs . If you are gonna be stuck in Jerzy, may as well have some fun turning money into noise.

KC17: "Any response?" He usually responds within a few days, with the holidays I didn't expect an answer until next week sometime. He and Assemblymen McGuckin and Catalano have been solid "No" votes on all of Murphy's illegal abuse of power.

I don't have to train to exercise my first Amendment rights, why should I have to train to exercise for the second? Training is great! I just don't agree with it being mandated!

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Except that the FPID/PP exists in conjunction with the GCA of 68. This means that unless you get willed it, or had/have a residence in another state, you cannot own them without getting a permit. NJ has always been run by statist scumbags. We'd still be a colony if NJ determined how the nation was run.

I am pointing out that it’s not in the tradition of even NJ to require a gun permit to own . Before this new law if one moved to NJ there was no requirement to register the guns or a permit needed to have them .NJ only had a FID to purchase.

Nope, I'm done explaining....you need not worry about Anti's here in NJ because you have them here right on this Forum.....never read the kind of stuff I'm seeing here anywhere else.....good luck with it.

After making 40# of sausage over the last couple of days, I want bacon.

The pen is mightier than the sword.

As a christian, I'll even appeal to the non-religious. You have certain rights that belong to you for existing. Those rights are not granted by your fellow man, because what man gives, he can take away. So there must be a higher authority that man in his corrupt nature, cannot ratify.

No. In court.

I wanted to go shooting yesterday so badly, perfect day for it. I have a lot of shit going on in Jan, maybe the end of Jan or early Feb if we get some decent weather. I also want to get, or make, an oscillator before the next shoot.

Show you NJ? The 2nd Amendment under Bruen isn’t limited to the text and tradition of NJ to use it against an NJ law. Remember that the Bill of Rights only applied against the federal government until it was incorporated under the 14th Amendment. It’s the history, text and tradition of all the founders that is to be considered.

And give them no quarter

No retreat, no surrender.

You cite one law and think that’s the end of it. There are many laws to be considered. like this one: The "Act to Regulate the Militia of the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania" passed 17 March 1777, and the the subsequent Militia Act passed March 20, 1780, together with their amendments, required all white men between the ages of 18 and 53 capable of bearing arms to serve two months of militia duty on a rotating basis. Refusal to turn out for military exercises would result in a fine, the proceeds from which were used to hire substitutes.” https://www.phmc.pa.gov/Archives/Research-Online/Pages/Revolutionary-War-Militia-Overview.aspx Or this: “In Massachusetts Bay, a British colony, all able bodied men, aged between 16 and 60 years had to serve in the local militia. By 1645, some men from this colony were selected from the ranks of the local militia, given extra training and had to be ready for action at short notice. This rapid deployment ability earned them the name Minutemen.” https://totallyhistory.com/minutemen/ note the words : “ given extra training “ You have no idea what you are talking about if you don’t think these men trained together. And you can blow smoke up people’s @@@@ but it doesn’t mean what you think matters . It’s what the court is going to go with. And some matters have to have a practical sense to it. Why did SCOTUS uphold a parade permit process to assemble to protest? Do you know? If you want the necessary 5 votes on the SCOTUS bench, the permit requirement is going to pass the constitutional test with them. Stop killing the messenger because you disagree.

Just to show progress. New York’s red flag law was just declared unconstitutional. New York’s ban on guns in church declared again unconstitutional.

It was also to train as a group. Remember how muskets were used on a battlefield.

First batch is done. That’s 20# of Italian.

You're absolutely right. I have no idea why I got a permit either. I'm just going to burn it and call it a day. ANJRPC, FPC, SAF, NJ2AS, et al, can you guys just give it a rest, please?

Fuck them…because 2A…

Here’s the basic setup… I was able to grind the first 20# of meat in about 20 mins. I used a coarse grind for the Italian sausage, as we prefer the texture like that, and it doesn’t smear the fat as much. I use a hand crank stuffer that could use an upgrade..it works well, but doesn’t have much capacity, and is kinda messy to work with. I should quit being a cheap Greek and spend some money to upgrade. Lol Don’t be afraid to STOP and put the metal parts of the grinder or the stuffer back in the freezer for awhile. Anything that touches the meat should be cold as hell.

25 permitless states require no training.....when are you guys here in NJ going to recognize what our US Constitution is really about and stop creating more obsticals for yourselves.......I can't believe some of this stuff.....your, your own worst enemies ....omo.

Yep. It would be another point of contention but we know where SCOTUS will go with on that issue. And frankly, a little bit of training protects us all. I could teach a revolver ( double action only) in less than an hour in my opinion.

Actually, it could be. That’s the well regulated militia part. The American citizens are the militia and the well regulated was the training — at least the call up for training or action. Remember the minutemen . It’s in the historical context of Bruen .

As this works it's way through the courts I continue to contact my state Senator & Assemblyman. Both voted against the new laws and I'm waiting for a reply to the most recent questions i sent the. Dear Senator Holzapfel, The recent passage of A4716 followed by S3214 solely on the strength of Democratic numbers in both houses of the legislature. Will the Republican members, all of whom voted against these bills, stand by without some ethics investigation of those supporters who knowingly and admittedly voted for an unconstitutional law? Where is the outcry about the malfeasance in office and disregard of their oath of office to uphold the U.S and State constitutions. Can the average citizen ever expect to see honorable representation again? Thank you for your support of those you represent, and for your consideration of this issue.

I believe there are currently 25 states with permitless carry and this is what we have to deal with.....we need a new and clear understanding of just what is meant by our 2nd Amendment Right so everyone is on the same page and not second guessing any longer.....hopefully some court judge will finally get to that.......omo.

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Really....well that's your opinion.....show me where these requirements that you say "aren't really a high bar" are stated in the 2A of The Bill of Rights..........all this concocted crap is in violation of our 2A .......guess you feel it's not......suppose you love the insurance requirement also. IMO, your a prime example why we're in the shape we are here....Liberal Gun Owners....if you even own one.....omo.

Irreguardless..........it's the truth... Kavanaugh should have not included those thoughtless remarks...omo.

This was the parts that were included in my kit. There was no part specific to the Mini 14 versus the Mini 30 for my year.

without the Kavanuagh comments, none of this would have gone this far........omo.

they were all pretty clear. the original documents are pretty clear. yet.....here we are.

Thanks, but $22 shipping and tax kills it for me. Comes out to $350 per 1K. We have seen much better deals lately.

Don't get me started on Fed Ex. A couple of months ago, we had ordered a specific printer for the business when our current one went down (over $1000.00 item, the sender shipped it with special instructions "Direct Signature Required"). Driver faked the delivery and stole it off the truck. Of course Fed Ex denied this could have happened and expected me to believe that they delivered it to a wrong address. Yeah, someone that didn't order something has it show up at their door (a 4 1/2 foot 80 lb box no less) and knows what name to sign. When I asked to see the signature of the receipient, they "didn't have that information.". They are at a 95% failure rate of delivering to my address - I'm in my shop at 7am every morning and EVERY time tracking will say "Attempted delivery at 10:30 am, business was closed" when I was here, usually with the front door open and never once has there been a call tag left. The printer issue caused a missed deadline costing me a $1200 job. My wife & I ordered ammo online and paid extra for signature required - they left it on the doorstep of a wrong address with no signature. I no longer do ANY business with a company that uses them and always let them know why I'll shop elsewhere. Even dropped a vendor that I typically do 8-10K yearly with ZERO accountability from them always. Biggest POS company I have ever dealt with that employs liars and thieves. Wish them nothing but the worst.

"Fees to apply for a carry permit would also go up from $2 to $200." At current levels (300k applied) that's $30 million a year or $60 million every two years. They will use this as a war chest to clog up the courts for years with BS laws that we'll be funding! Disgusting. So $200 to apply,$50 to get fingerpinted, $100 + dollars to qualify, and probably about another $50 - $75 in assorted fees (notary, passport pics, ammo). So $400 minimum to apply for the permit. And then you have to start the renewal process about every 18 months at probably the same costs I'm assuming. Though I'm sure they'll rise. How is that not cost prohibitive? What other Constituional protected rights do you have to pay exorbitant fees to exercise and "renew" every two years??

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"They" need to be spanked for stuff like this.

You're reading the wrong section of 2C:3-4. What you quoted are the general rules, which include when you are out in public. This is what applies when you are in a dwelling: Note that it says a dwelling, not your dwelling and what little you have to do to justify deadly force in c.(2)(b). c. (1) Notwithstanding the provisions of N.J.S.2C:3-5, N.J.S.2C:3-9, or this section, the use of force or deadly force upon or toward an intruder who is unlawfully in a dwelling is justifiable when the actor reasonably believes that the force is immediately necessary for the purpose of protecting himself or other persons in the dwelling against the use of unlawful force by the intruder on the present occasion. (2) A reasonable belief exists when the actor, to protect himself or a third person, was in his own dwelling at the time of the offense or was privileged to be thereon and the encounter between the actor and intruder was sudden and unexpected, compelling the actor to act instantly and: (a) The actor reasonably believed that the intruder would inflict personal injury upon the actor or others in the dwelling; or (b) The actor demanded that the intruder disarm, surrender or withdraw, and the intruder refused to do so. (3) An actor employing protective force may estimate the necessity of using force when the force is used, without retreating, surrendering possession, withdrawing or doing any other act which he has no legal duty to do or abstaining from any lawful action.

A right is not absolute. For example, you have the right to freedom of religion but not to human sacrifice. Heller and Bruen state that quote plainly.

no sir.........under the Militia Act, each individual was supposed to be fitted out with a good musket, cartridge box and cuttoe / knie or ax.....had nothing to do with training.....stop making up crap you haven't researched.....your a nightmare to our cause.....omo.