Moutinas

I called Shooters and got a requalification date. Went there a week later. Walked out with the form and emailed a scanned copy to the TR PD. That covers me for now and at permit renewal. Hopefully the fee increase will be struck down between now and next September

Anyone interested in reaching out to the higher court, here is what I just received

This part caught my eye: Applicants requesting to remove any restriction from a permit previously issued by the courts may choose to appeal to a higher court. I made a request tonight asking how I can get this started. If I can do it via email I’ll do it. Maybe some sympathetic judge above the county superior court will send out a rescind order. Ryan did it in Ocean County for the sensitive places. It took one email and I had the rescind in one week. We’ll see what they say.

I've carried with a 5.11 undershirt. It has built in padded pockets under each arm. Got my permit in late September so haven't tried in summer yet. In cool weather it's great. I carry a smaller single stack 45acp on one side and a spare mag on the other. Getting it out in a self defense event you may sacrifice a button but the draw is easy. The pistol is in the same general spot as a shoulder holster which I also use when I know I won't be taking the coat off. I've heard a few reasons, what's your take?

Had dinner without a drink at the local Irish Pub. I’ve been checking the door for no guns allowed, so far in all my travels, not a one. Happily it’s getting so normal being armed in NJ. No one is the wiser and the meal was delicious. The way it should be on all counts.

Mark Smith did his first live Twitter feed, as always his content is tight. https://mobile.twitter.com/fourboxesdiner

Would love to hear any judge ask the state to provide the list of crimes committed by all these new permit holders. When they present the blank pieces of paper, “So what’s your rush to overturn the PI?”

Plain old 45 ACP 230 Grain FMJ

Yup, that’s what I have. Typical NJ doublespeak

All good comments. Didn't think I'd have to state the obvious but here goes. I don't carry in the home, gun and holster come off and is secured. My empty chamber carry is only for when I'm off property while around grandchildren. Hope that makes more sense. Yes to good holster and retention, also obvious. Just thought I'd mention this for anyone else who sees the little ones on visits. It's an extra layer of safety and was common in the US until after WW2. It's still common in many countries today, empty chamber carry.

pushing a stroller, taking them for a drive to a park, normal stuff

Sort of on topic, I keep one semi with an empty chamber for a few specific weekly events. I feel safer around the little ones if I carry on an empty chamber. They like to climb up and God forbid. The barrel always seems to be facing in the wrong direction when toddlers are around. The other is when I know I'm going somewhere that is gun-free. So much easier and safer to drop the mag and stow the pistol in the trunk lock box unloaded. I tried it the other way and during the course of the week and I was loading and unloading too often.

If memory serves, the wording in the website does say residents but as you begin the application there was something for out of state people. Just have your NJ permit and Driver’s license front and backs scanned and ready to upload, they’ll ask for that.

What I do know is the laptop in patrol cars do not have instant access to any NJ PCH database. That was about 5-6 months ago when a trooper I know and trust was asked about this. There may not even be a database on a government server. My guess is the PO would have to call the PD who took the application packet and have someone actually pull the hard copy from a file cabinet.

One of Judge Bumb's colleagues in CA who has been applying law correctly pre-Bruen, is Judge Benitez. Full San Francisco Chronicle article is behind a paywall but viewable as text only here. Here's two pull quotes that are telling: The American Bar Association rated Benitez as unqualified, largely because of what foes described as his unfavorable temperament. But Feinstein (that would be CA's very liberal/progressive US Senator) — who 10 years earlier had sponsored a nationwide federal ban on large-capacity, semiautomatic weapons, which Congress allowed to expire in 2004 — praised Benitez’s “superb demeanor, intelligence, pragmatism and fairness,” and helped him win Senate confirmation on a 98-1 vote. In his April 2020 decision overturning voter-approved background checks for buyers of ammunition, Benitez observed, “Criminals, terrorists and tyrants don’t do background checks.” “I don’t believe this judge would uphold a single gun law anywhere,” Robyn Thomas, then-executive director of the San Francisco-based Gifford Law Center to Prevent Gun Violence, said after Benitez’s 2021 ruling. Gun advocates said the criticisms were unfounded. “The judge is a fair, thorough and thoughtful jurist who holds the state to its burden of proof,” C.D. Michel, attorney for the California Rifle and Pistol Association, the NRA’s state affiliate, said Wednesday. “As a refugee from the Cuban revolution, he has seen tyranny up close and personal.” Michel said the Supreme Court’s new standard “requires the state to present evidence, not platitudes or press conferences, to justify the infringement of the Second Amendment’s fundamental protections. That’s what the governor resents.” Another advocacy group, the Firearms Policy Coalition, called Newsom “just another opportunistic authoritarian politician with a hair stylist.” In the upcoming cases, the group said, “he will lose and he knows it.”

Years ago IIRC, Barrett refused to sell to state and local officials in CA because it citizens could not purchase the same product. The firearm industry should boycott the tyrannical states like ours and not do business with them. I realize that would be a problem for PD's all over the state but maybe it's time. They can always buy through surrogates in PA or elsewhere. Yes it would be an inconvenience and cost more but it would send a message. Imagine if the NJSP issued a PO to SIG USA and they returned it with an explanation. Sorry we don't do business with government agencies in states that are actively trying to put us out of business. Then SIG gets on FOX and explains what happened and why. SIG could always change that policy once NJ changes their ways.

Well . . In times past I'd agree. The big difference is Bruen. Now that all states and federal enclaves are moving to shall issue, reciprocity may be tolerable to the Schummers of the world. Under the right conditions and if it's bundled with something that they want, could happen. There where folks on this forum and elsewhere who where convinced carry would never happen in NJ, never. Now we have carry. We are on a winning streak, let's keep the momentum going as long as we can.

President Obama had a similar Constitutional disconnect. Not sure if it's ignorance or worse. They may know then subtly lie to the low information public. The President famously said the Constitution gives citizens rights. We all know that is not true. Our God given rights predate the USA, the founding documents and all the Amendments protect these rights. It's a fine point but makes a huge difference. When the powers gives you something, they can take it away which would be any tyrant's preference.

So our governor is is encouraging people to post gun free zone signs. The first person who is robbed or worse at gunpoint will wonder why his sign was not honored, hmmmmm. Maybe we should pass a law removing qualified immunity for stupid advice offered by state officials so people can drag politicians into court.

You guys have your own set of hurdles to regain freedoms. We've been chipping away at the bad laws and enjoying some freedoms. How is the application process and wait time for CCW in MD?

Wait, what? Does our distinguished governor realize the fellow he praised is the same supposed right wing judge that slapped NJ down? I had to double check the last name, how can Judge Quraishi be the same guy? Wow, talk about egg on the governor's face, ha.

If you take the example of a school in a strip mall part of the TRO: https://www.njgunforums.com/forum/index.php?/topic/105458-nj-concealed-carry-locations-and-regulations/ The Court acknowledged the State’s concession that notwithstanding the very broad language used in the statute (“any part of the buildings, grounds, or parking area”) the scope of prohibition on multi-use property (strip malls, office buildings, churches with schools, etc.) is limited only to the actual prohibited use itself and not other uses and also does not include shared features such as shared parking lots, hallways, elevators, etc. then so long as you are not in the playground, it would appear you are in the park which is legal for now. Even if the playground shares parking, paths and grassy fields, you and the PO should know where the playground is. Interestingly there was discussion on the lack of clear definition of "school" in the new law. Same goes for "playground". Is the baseball field a playground? How about the basketball court? This all needs to be hashed out so we can protect our children.

https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.njd.506033/gov.uscourts.njd.506033.53.0.pdf Great preemptive directions by the court. In essence Bumb is telling the Senate & Assembly can come to the party but not to whine about public interest or how dangerous firearms are. Those days are over, I love winning. === This matter comes before the Court upon the Motion to Intervene on Short Notice by Nicholas P. Scutari, President of the New Jersey Senate, and Craig J. Coughlin, speaker of the New Jersey General Assembly (together, the “Presiding Officers”). . . At the same time, the Court implores the Presiding Officers to focus their argument on the legitimate legal issues pending before this Court after the clear dictate from the United States Supreme Court in New York State Rifle & Pistol Ass'n, Inc. v. Bruen, 597 U.S., 142 S. Ct. 2111 (2022). The Presiding Officers note that they intend to “provide perspective on the critical public health, safety and welfare issues that led the Legislature to enact Chapter 131.” [Docket No. 47-1, at 7.] But the Bruen Court expressly stated that “the government may not simply posit that the regulation promotes an important interest” in the Second Amendment context. Id. at 2126. Instead, “the government must demonstrate that the regulation is consistent with this Nation's historical tradition of firearm regulation.” Id. Additionally, pursuant to Rule 65, relevant factors for the Court to consider at the preliminary injunction phase include the public interest and possibility of harm to other interested persons. As the Court considered in its earlier Opinion in Koons, the State, thus far, has failed to present any “empirical evidence to suggest that concealed carry permit holders are responsible for gun crimes or an increase in gun crimes in New Jersey, which they cite as justification for the law.” [Docket No. 34.] Such evidence is certainly relevant to these factors. However, the Presiding Officers must keep the litigation progressing on the right track. All agree that violent crimes involving firearms are tragic. But the dictate of Bruen is clear: “legislative interest balancing is understandable—and, elsewhere, appropriate — [but] it is not deference that the Constitution demands here.” Bruen, 142 S.Ct. at 2131. While the Legislature may disagree with Bruen, it may not disobey it.

+ this, also, once the duty to inform drops, doesn’t the new law include a felony charge?

My permit has restrictions “none” checked and a list of handguns I qualified with. So the PO looking at the permit should think . . . The original court order has the sensitive places which I had rescinded by a subsequent court order. However the original still has the handguns listed with some wording saying I can carry these. So a prosecutor looking at the permit and court order should think . . . I know what I think but it’s anyones guess what PD, prosecutor or grand jury would think.