Joelk

I bet our tax dollars are paying the staffer whose job it is to delete our posts.

Magpul added to OP

I will be the first to admit I tend to look at things from my perspective, and I thank Compujas for pointing that out as to the NRA classes. I hope everyone interested in training in NJ will post up whatever class/trainer they like, and as I said, I will add them to the list to make it more usefull to all.

I agree that convenience is worth something, but is it worth twice the price? And that is making the assumption that all training is fungible which I do not think is the case. However I am not taking any position as to the comparative quality of any trainers. I will leave that up to each of us as students. I will continue to post class reviews and invites for anyone who may be interested. I would also hope other students will do the same. I know from Tosser's recent NE Shooters 2012 Summit thread at least 5 people from this forum are now going (and splitting travel/lodging costs).

I make all of my training class selections based on the trainer, and then I try to find the closest and cheapest venue. I have trained with a couple of the trainers I listed in NJ. The ones I have traveled to train with I did so because they did not have any classes scheduled in NJ, and then I still select the closest class. However when I take classes in Culpeper, VA, which has become one of my favorite training venues, I normally go with 1 to 3 additional people, and we split the driving (4 hours each way from my house in south Jersey) and hotel expenses so for a 3 day class it costs me about $125 for travel/lodging. If I take a 3 day class in north Jersey I will have to drive back and forth each day (about 3 to 3.5 hours a day, plus gas and tolls) so it would often cost me more to take a class in NJ, and even if I can carpool the NJ classes cost me almost as much to attend as traveling to VA to attend the training of my choice.

While I agree with your concept, I don't think is is practical in reality as every trainer I listed (other than the newly added NRA list) conducts classes at multiple locations (and even some of the NRA trainers conduct classes at multiple locations). Also every one of them will do classes at NJ ranges, if you can secure the range. This can be difficult in at some ranges in NJ. However, I know that a couple of the trainers I listed will be conducting classes at NJ ranges this year.

Hd2000fxdl, I would like this list to be a legitimate tool to anyone seeking training. I will include any and all trainers posted. I am really glad compujas suggested the NRA courses (I will work on adding to that list as I have time) too as there are a ton of them around and I think it is great thing for potential students to see what their options are. Maybe someone who had never considered training, or didn't know where to start, will use one of these lists to get started in training.

Thanks for your input compujas. I realize that I was looking at this from my perspective, having taken the basic NRA classes many years ago I neglected to mention them. I will amend my list with another section for the basic NRA classes. As to the trainers listed in the first list, several of them have done classes in NJ, and ALL of them would do so if someone wants to host them.

Definitely talk to Paul as he is the guy to deal with down here!

No, I have taken some of the courses above in NJ, and at other times I have traveled out of state to take classes that were not offered in NJ.

As the topic of training class prices has come up a few times I thought I would make a post where we can compile various training providers classes and costs. I will start with a few popular trainers, and as people add others I will update the post to reflect the additional input. I have only listed trainers that travel, and thus would be available in NJ if YOU want to host a class. As NJ ranges are often problematic, I find that there are a LOT of classes availabe within a short drive from NJ. I will use the following format, in price order, to make comparison easier: Trainer/Class/price/price per 8 hour day Craig Douglas-Southnarc/ ECQC or AMIS (both FOF)/ $400 for 20 hours/ $160 per 8 hour day Chris Fry-MDTS/ Pistol, Carbine, Shotgun, etc/ $185 per day/ $185 per 8 hour day Magpul/ Precision Rifle 1/ $750 for 4 days/ $187.5 per 8 hour day Magpul/ Dynamic Pistol-Carbine/ $650 for 3 day/ $216 per 8 hour day Pat Rogers-EAG Tactical/ Basic Carbine/ $450 for 2 days/ $225 per 8 hour day James Yeager-Tactical Response/ Fighting Pistol, Rifle, etc/ $450 for 2 days/ $225 per day Kyle Defoor-Defoor Performance Shooting/ Advanced Pistol, Carbine/ $450 for 2 days/ $225 per day Kyle Lamb-Viking Tactics/ Carbine 1.5/ $700 for 3 days/ $233 per 8 hour day Magpul/ Special Purpose-DMR/ $700 for 3 days/ $233 per 8 hour day Larry Vickers-VTac/ Carbine 1, Pistol 1/ $475 for 2 days/ 237.5 per day Rob Pincus-ICE Training/ Combat Focus Shooting/ $500 for 2 days/ $250 per 8 hour day Magpul/ Dynamic Pistol-Carbine/ $550 for 2 days/ $275 per 8 hour day Magpul/ Precision Rifle 2/ $850 for 3 days/ $283 per 8 hour day Magpul/ Shotgun/ $650 for 2 days/ $325 per 8 hour day Thanks for the suggestion Compujas, here are the NRA classes you listed. I would appreciate any more NRA classes anyone wants to list as there are LOTS of NJ providers for these. NRA classes/CCW classes (I will group these by class, in price order) Gun for Hire/ First steps pistol/ $185 for 4 hours/ $370 per 8 hour day Green Acedemy of Personal Protection-GAPP/Basic Pistol, Rifle, Shotgun/ $150 per ?hours/ ? per 8 hour day Shoot NJ/ Basic Pistol, Rifle, Shotgun/ $198 for 11 hours/ $144 per 8 hour day NJ Firearms Acedemy/ Basic Pistol. $225 for 8 hours/ $225 per 8 hour day Shoot NJ/ Personal protection in the home/ $225 for 11 hours/ $164 per 8 hour day Shoot NJ/ Personal protection outside of the home/ $350 for 14 hours/ $200 per 8 hour day Green Acedemy of Personal Protection-GAPP/ Fl-UT CCW class/ $140 per day (prints, photo, notary included)/ $140 per 8 hour day Gun for Hire/ Private instruction/ $300 for 2 hours/ $1200 per 8 hour day(should this be under NRA or the other casses above?) This is just a quick summary I made, and there are a lot of other trainers out there so please help me out with more submissions/info.

Not to say what is or is not legal Shane, but do you have anything to support your statement? As far as I know neither the NJSP, nor the ATF, has ever specified how to, and/or, if there is a legal way to pin a stock. I am not trying to be a pain in the a**, but looking to see if anyone has some definite info.

As I said on another forum when this came up a while ago, we should just wall it off Escape from New York style and let the problem solve itself. Anything else is just a waste of time and money. Maybe we should relocate Donkey's cheesesteak shop first though. This is coming from a guy who is unfortinately too familiar with Camden, as I have had a car stolen there, conducted several Sheriff's sales there, I have a few friends who grew up there but escaped, and one who still lives there.

I am looking forward to this! I attended a similar event last year (the Mid-Atlantic Training Conference) and it was well worthwhile. You get to checkout an amazing number of trainers/classes for very little $ (even when you factor in hotel/travel it is cheaper than a lot of what is offered in NJ). Here is a review of last year's Mid-Atlantic Training Conference written by Rob Pincus: http://www.downrange...e-success/6387/, and some good pictures/videos taken by an attendee: http://byrong.com/MATC2010/. For all of you shooting Federal's EFMJ loads you may want to check out how they performed in actual gel tests at the conference http://byrong.com/MA...0-BallisticGel/. I was present for the testing, but I will prompt Cameron of GAPP for some more input as the powerball and EFMJ loads were fired by him through his gun.

It looks good. I love that Mega monolithic upper. How is the cheekweld on that ACS-L?

You got me there Maks. If you are practicing for gun games do whatever makes you win. However from a defensive point of view, it makes me cringe to see someone stand still, out in the open, while addressing multiple targets.

Airsoft is a good training tool, just dont forget to use good tactics such as proper movement and cover.

I hope so, but I doubt it. For anyone who feels confident dealing with an up close and personal criminal encounter, please do yourself a favor and do a good force on force class that includes drawing while in contact with your adversary (he isn't going to try to rob you from 7 yards away), and more importantly, dealing with multiple attackers combined with contact/physical assault.

I agree that forum feedback is the best safety net we have! As Paypal has actually locked me for selling a Troy sight (not a gun, ammo, or a "asualt weapon part" which used to be part of their prohibited items) I guess we just see things a little differently. Consequently I would rather buy face to face, or from a reputable online dealer with my credit card at this point.

So you think that when 3 scumbags approach you from the front giving you some BS you will maintain your situational awareness and defend yourself from the guy to your side and the actual agressor behind you too? You must be one hell of a badass to look forward to being surrounded, with 5 to 1 odds against you, and (if complying with the law) bringing a knife to a possible gunfight, not to mention that if you somehow come out victorious, you will be bankrupt from the lawsuits/legal fees. Somehow I don't think "it would be so much fun".

The empty box scam is when a seller sends you an empty box with a tracking number. When you say you never got the item the seller sends the tracking # to paypal (which says you got it) and they drop the investigation. I am not saying anything is perfect, but why support a business that is against something that you believe in?

Unfortunately, when the buyer with a room temperature IQ, lists a gun part in the comment section Paypal may lock your account, and you will have a hell of a time getting any of your $ released. This is what heppened to me when I sold a Troy rear sight several years ago, and the buyer listed it in the comment section. I didn't get my $ back until I sent a letter under my esq letterhead.

I was reading this thread http://njgunforums.com/forum/index.php?/topic/30351-negative-experience-with-marketplace-transactionmember/page__fromsearch__1 where someone said that he “wanted to send to money to him using Paypal being this is the safest way to do a transaction". This really surprised me for two reasons. First is that I have seen countless people scammed with Paypal (such as the empty box trick), so that I don't consider Paypal safe at all. However, more importantly as this is a gun board, is that Paypal is ANTI GUN. This seemed to be common knowledge a few years ago on all of the gun boards, but in recent times it seems to have been forgotten. Maybe some of you newer guys don't know but Paypal used to (and may still, but I no longer use them so I have not kept up) lock accounts for buying or selling anything firearm related. In fact what the gentleman quoted above wanted to do is expressly prohibited by Paypal’s own posted rules (see #2 near the end): https://cms.paypal.com/us/cgi-bin/?cmd=_render-content&content_ID=ua/AcceptableUse_full I would urge everyone to consider this when choosing to use/not use Paypal. I can not understand why any gun owner would choose to financially support a business who is anti-gun. I would also hope that any paypal users understand that Paypal may lock your account for buying/selling anything firearm related, and you will have a hell of a time getting a refund.

While I split my time between MD and NJ I don't own a chopped 17. I do see why someone would consider it in NJ, but I would just get a 19.

1) It is normal, particularly with 15 round mags. 2) I always load my 15 round mags to 14.