Shane45

The pertinent question incoming! What is your actual total budget? The rifle is but a piece of the puzzle. Lots more needed.

I do not agree with everything Nappan says. But I didnt go to law school either. But I dont think Nappen is the source of this information. It is something I have been hearing in NJ for over 30 years!

Well...... if you were a former Sniper, Former Instructor at Rifles only, etc etc etc like Frank G, I'd say get whichever you want because the skillset is well established. I actually prefer short barrels for 308. All my short action Accuracy Internationals were 20" 308's or were 20's soon after I got them.

The one thing I like about the RPR is the ease with which you can swap barrels. I dont know about the other budget minded systems but I do know there are really good barrels made for the RPR that you can swap yourself.

Ray, there are ALL kinds of articles out there of people getting into PRS for very little money on all the new, decent, budget minded rifles out in 6.5. And I hate to break it to you but the rifle price between 308 and 6.5 is negligible if existent at all. Just about every line thats available in 308 is available in 6.5. So your argument makes no sense at all. And if you really understood, you would know what you think is new, isnt. It has just finally made mainstream adoption. 260 Remington has been around since the 90's. What made the 6.5CM so popular was the availability of match grade ammo at the price point of FGMM. Simple as that. 260 has a slight advantage but it never gained popularity. Why? $67 a box for match ammo! Even today its still pricey. (edited to clarify the point that 260 and 6.5CM are nearly identical ballistically and fire the same projo) Here is the bottom line though. Its a short action. So I really dont care what stays and goes. Its only a barrel swap. So if a new hotness emerges, when this barrel is done, I'll switch over on the next barrel. Its just a barrel.

Ray, I really hate it when you devolve the discussion because of your determination to push a bad position. Ringing steel where, at the 308 only matches because no one runs a 308 competitively anymore?

Let me restate your supposition. No you should not pass up on a trim hammer just because a framing hammer will be better for...the framing you need the hammer for. Picking the inferior tool is silly Ray

This is true, however, if you dont reload and your dropping almost $5k in ammo, you accept and understand barrels are consumable.

Ray, I would agree that the consumer should be cautious about marketing. This is prudent. I am NOT a fan of boutique calibers. With that being said, the advantages of the 6.5, for example, are extremely well established. It has moved far far far beyond a boutique caliber to full adoption. Do you think SOCOM would have adopted 6.5cm if there wasn't significant advantage to it? When I did a precision rifle Demo with Cadex Defence for the Egyption military, they were interested in going 6.5 as well. It is the direction of the short action caliber for precision rifle. If it was 10 years ago, even though I was already running these calibers since about 04, I would have still recommended the 308 for many of the reasons you stated. But not now. There is simply no point in it other than you want a 308. I love 5.56. I love 308 and still have quite a few in gas guns as the platform is mature. .45 is home for me and still relevant especially with the rise of capacity restricted states. 10mm was introduced in 1983 so Im not sure where your going with that one. 300Blk has got a lot of momentum but Id still consider it a bit boutique and Im not sure I truly see the utility of it.

That is not possible. I was coherent and non contrarian! ! Adder, if you ARE going to reload, then the .260 has a tiny advantage. But if your going to live in the factory ammo world for the vast majority of your shooting, then go 6 or 6.5cm.

At this stage of the game I see no point in starting with a 308. Especially if you intend to shoot to 1k. The price difference between match 308 and 6.5 is negligible. Why handicap yourself? I no longer even have a 308 in a bolt action precision rifle. I love the 308, I really do! But its time has passed.

I see. If it was moving, I could see it messing with harmonics, but I would have theorised that would have resulted in a grouping issue, not actual keyholing. There was no jacket "smear" inside the brake? Hope you dont mind my questions. Topic is interesting to me.

If the brake was moving, you would be able to feel it. Id be more curious about the concentricity of the brake which can be a little tricky on AK's.

If it was belt fed with quick change barrels it would have me!

Which is why I say large pattern AR etc etc. Saying AR10 is like calling all 4 wheel drives Jeeps :). I never disputed cost. Lets clarify your contention. More reliable how? General operation and mean rounds between a malfunction? In other words are you saying that the ar15 counterpart would have less stoppages per 1000 rounds vs the 308?

Well, AR10's are strictly Armalite. And BTW I have not found M1As to be reliable! They can hang in a casual range environment but seem to go off the rails when pressed in higher round count training sessions. My LMT MWS was very reliable and won the mil trials in Europe. My OBR is very reliable and has done very well in trails behind the wire and in deployment. My SR25 EMC is very reliable and has done very well in trails behind the wire and in deployment. I have not had a single malfunction in any of these rifles. I have run them in crappy conditions and they have been run excessively dirty and some have run in the environment that really tests an ar, lots of rounds in little time. No issues. But of course this is anecdotal. Samples of 1 if you will. But the reputations of these specific rifles indicate that most have the same experience.

Not a fan of Sig AR's but the Virtus and Rattler pistols have my attention.

Are you calling my 308 fat!?? Shit my 308 is lighter than an HK MR5.56 or a CZ805! And I contend just as reliable as either of those reliable rifles. I agree a lot to like in the 6.5 world but Ive been a proponent there from when I had my GA Precision in 260 rem back in 2005ish IIRC.

Of course you have to pick what fits for you. I think we are in agreement except for this "Yes, a quality made 308 rifle is just about as reliable as an AR but not quite." Im curious about the not quite. What makes you say that?

It wasn't a serious match or anything but I was able to take 1st with my 308 at a 2 gun style match against a field of 5.56's. I do not find my 308 punishing at all! But you could certainly tell the big difference of energy on target when I hit the steel vs the 5.56's! It wasnt until then people realised I was running a 308.

My AR pattern 308 is every bit as reliable as my SCAR17. They are about even in weight. The AR is more accurate by a margin. Big? As in dimensions? A 5.56 may meet your needs. But your claim appears to be 308 AR's cant make weight and are unreliable. I contend that the right one is absolutely reliable and makes weight. I pursued this path because I wanted 1 rifle capable of room clearing through the front door and making an 800 yd shot out the back door. (a wide spectrum of capability)

Gotcha.

300 Norma is capable.

Yeah but thats not a belted magnum in the pic, and 338 LM is off the table and the other calibers aint hitting at 2300. Given the non disclosure, it must not be a current offering of the rpr.

Looks like 300 Norma, which is what my rifle is chambered in :D. I dont think 6.5 is getting to 2300!