deviated rationality

Most of my information I will be posting is from other resources, but with some modifications as I see fit. If it is my work entirely, I will post up that it is. If you don't see me say that, assume it is a collarboration of a lot of different like-minded people. Legend: - Necessities: Items that are crucial to surviving. - High value items: Items that are of great value; should be protected, horded, and used as leverage in barter trade. - Nice to have: Good to have to make life easier, but not needed. - Luxuries: Not needed at all; but they are extremely useful, hard to transport, and can make life incredibly more comfortable. 100 Items to Disappear First 1. Generators (Good ones cost dearly. Gas storage, risky. Noisy...target of thieves; maintenance etc.) 2. Water Filters/Purifiers 3. Portable Toilets 4. Seasoned Firewood. Wood takes about 6 - 12 months to become dried, for home uses. 5. Lamp Oil, Wicks, Lamps (First Choice: Buy CLEAR oil. If scarce, stockpile ANY!) 6. Coleman Fuel. Impossible to stockpile too much. 7. Guns, Ammunition, Pepper Spray, Knives, Clubs, Bats & Slingshots. 8. Hand-can openers, & hand egg beaters, whisks. 9. Honey/Syrups/white, brown sugar (sugars are crucial to diet, also a good morale booster) 10. Rice - Beans - Wheat 11. Vegetable Oil (for cooking) Without it food burns/must be boiled etc.,) 12. Charcoal, Lighter Fluid (Will become scarce suddenly) 13. Water Containers (Urgent Item to obtain.) Any size. Small: HARD CLEAR PLASTIC ONLY - note - food grade if for drinking. 14. Mini Heater head (Propane) (Without this item, propane won't heat a room.) 15. Grain Grinder (Non-electric) 16. Propane Cylinders (Urgent: Definite shortages will occur.) 17. Survival Guide Book. 18. Mantles: Aladdin, Coleman, etc. (Without this item, longer-term lighting is difficult.) 19. Baby Supplies: Diapers/formula. ointments/aspirin, etc. 20. Washboards, Mop Bucket w/wringer (for Laundry) 21. Cookstoves (Propane, Coleman & Kerosene) 22. Vitamins 23. Propane Cylinder Handle-Holder (Urgent: Small canister use is dangerous without this item) 24. Feminine Hygiene/Haircare/Skin products. 25. Thermal underwear (Tops & Bottoms) 26. Bow saws, axes and hatchets, Wedges (also, honing oil) 27. Aluminum Foil Reg. & Heavy Duty (Great Cooking and Barter Item) 28. Gasoline Containers (Plastic & Metal) 29. Garbage Bags (Impossible To Have Too Many). 30. Toilet Paper, Kleenex, Paper Towels 31. Milk - Powdered & Condensed (Shake Liquid every 3 to 4 months) 32. Garden Seeds (Non-Hybrid) (A MUST) 33. Clothes pins/line/hangers (A MUST) 34. Coleman's Pump Repair Kit 35. Tuna Fish (in oil) 36. Fire Extinguishers (or..large box of Baking Soda in every room) 37. First aid kits 38. Batteries (all sizes...buy furthest-out for Expiration Dates) 39. Garlic, spices & vinegar, baking supplies 40. Big Dogs (and plenty of dog food) 41. Flour, yeast & salt 42. Matches. {"Strike Anywhere" preferred.) Boxed, wooden matches will go first 43. Writing paper/pads/pencils, solar calculators 44. Insulated ice chests (good for keeping items from freezing in Wintertime.) 45. Workboots, belts, Levis & durable shirts 46. Flashlights/LIGHTSTICKS & torches, "No. 76 Dietz" Lanterns 47. Journals, Diaries & Scrapbooks (jot down ideas, feelings, experience; Historic Times) 48. Garbage cans Plastic (great for storage, water, transporting - if with wheels) 49. Men's Hygiene: Shampoo, Toothbrush/paste, Mouthwash/floss, nail clippers, etc 50. Cast iron cookware (sturdy, efficient) 51. Fishing supplies/tools 52. Mosquito coils/repellent, sprays/creams 53. Duct Tape 54. Tarps/stakes/twine/nails/rope/spikes 55. Candles 56. Laundry Detergent (liquid) 57. Backpacks, Duffel Bags 58. Garden tools & supplies 59. Scissors, fabrics & sewing supplies 60. Canned Fruits, Veggies, Soups, stews, etc. 61. Bleach (plain, NOT scented: 4 to 6% sodium hypochlorite) 62. Canning supplies, (Jars/lids/wax) 63. Knives & Sharpening tools: files, stones, steel 64. Bicycles...Tires/tubes/pumps/chains, etc 65. Sleeping Bags & blankets/pillows/mats 66. Carbon Monoxide Alarm (battery powered) 67. Board Games, Cards, Dice 68. d-con Rat poison, MOUSE PRUFE II, Roach Killer 69. Mousetraps, Ant traps & cockroach magnets 70. Paper plates/cups/utensils (stock up, folks) 71. Baby wipes, oils, waterless & Antibacterial soap (saves a lot of water) 72. Rain gear, rubberized boots, etc. 73. Shaving supplies (razors & creams, talc, after shave) 74. Hand pumps & siphons (for water and for fuels) 75. Soysauce, vinegar, bullions/gravy/soupbase 76. Reading glasses 77. Chocolate/Cocoa/Tang/Punch (water enhancers) 78. "Survival-in-a-Can" 79. Woolen clothing, scarves/ear-muffs/mittens (winter nights, wool wicks moisture) 80. Boy Scout Handbook, / also Leaders Catalog 81. Roll-on Window Insulation Kit (MANCO) 82. Graham crackers, saltines, pretzels, Trail mix/Jerky 83. Popcorn, Peanut Butter, Nuts 84. Socks, Underwear, T-shirts, etc. (extras) 85. Lumber (all types) 86. Wagons & carts (for transport to and from) 87. Cots & Inflatable mattress's 88. Gloves: Work/warming/gardening, etc. 89. Lantern Hangers 90. Screen Patches, glue, nails, screws,, nuts & bolts 91. Teas 92. Coffee 93. Cigarettes 94. Wine/Liquors (for bribes, medicinal, etc,) 95. Paraffin wax 96. Glue, nails, nuts, bolts, screws, etc. 97. Chewing gum/candies 98. Atomizers (for cooling/bathing) 99. Hats & cotton neckerchiefs 100. Goats/chickens

DT? DP? haha. Its DR. Although DP might work too SDT = Im dyslexic when Im waking up. Should have been DST (Disaster Survival Team) DST: Basically it is a small team, either of friends or family, and in different echelons (immediate family, neighbors, nuclear family, ZED, ect.) that you choose the priority to, since these would be the people you work with. You have to consider things like resources, locations, travel routes, skills, health concerns, number (more numbers = disappearing resources, less numbers = easy target) and SHTF planning. In short, you have to build a hierarchy of people you can trust, then break down the resources and intel on everyone and place you have in your plan, and then figure out communication. One thing I stress is that you should not *rely* on technology ever. Use it where *needed* but not rely on it. You can call a DST anything you want, but that is when my DST called in down in NC. Maybe we should work on a new title?

Ideally your SDT should be people you know, are close friends with, and share the same ideals as yourself. They need not be in ZED or NJGF at all. ZED is a great way to expand what people know of survival preparedness, and each of our members can benefit greatly from it. Over the next week I will be posting up articles about SDT's and other survival topics. As far as SDTs that are from ZED or NJGF, this is why we need to organize. When we figure out who is in and where they are it will be much easier to form solid planning and friendships where we know that if something goes down, we can depend on each other if we need to.

This is more like what I was thinking. Maybe less paramilitary but that works too. As long as we are all still having fun and we can organize for events and fun **** like that, we are in good shape. That being said, I agree with Ben and think that we should not segregate from the main forum, or even through each other. We should look at this as one group, not 3, but one group with 3 squads so to speak. Most of all, as so far has been the case, this should be about helping each other out (main forum tradition) and having fun at the same time (with safety and under ZED tradition). Either way a quick FAQ or go to for the basic info needs would only benefit NJZED.

Free spirited I get, and reading through that thread may answer the questions I had, but its a lot to read and it would be MUCH easier to just have them all answered in one post instead of trying to search through all of the other posts which wont answer it. Just trying to make things easier for those who are interested to join in on the fun. Having these things would definitely help stream line organization for events and get togethers for even more hippie action

I've been trying to locate information on ZED for a while, and get most of my information from Krdshrk. That said, there isn't a whole lot about ZED at all. So, I think we (or rather, full members since I have yet to meet with you all) should have some sort of Mission Statement that tells people what ZED is about, what we like to do, and other things like that. I know this is a fun group and not to serious, but I like the idea and think it has a lot of potential as a group of friends that can have a lot of fun and go shooting or get together for events of our own. Here is a list of suggestions if you guys do the MS: - ZED: what does it stand for? Zombie Elimination Detail I assume? - How do you get into ZED? Is there a sign up or requirement list? - How often do you get together? - Where do you get together? - What chapters are there? - Who is leading ZED and each of its chapters? - Resources for equipment to slay those soulless heathens? - What reading material is awesome (Max brooks, Richard Matheson, ect) - How do you get promotions (if there are any) - How do you get to become part of the leadership?

Airsoft is a touchy, if not shady subject in NJ. I know tons of people that play it, and those of us who play airsoft and own real steel (what airsofters call actual guns) are generally very on edge about some (most) of the players. Especially those of us who have LE/MIL experience. That being said, my question to you all is this: With your knowledge of the sport and what it entails, what is your general opinion on it and what experience have you had with it? The reason I ask is because the topic came up and through my own personal experience Airsoft is a very misunderstood sport. If you have questions about it, please post them or PM me, and I will be glad to help. After a few days or a week of reading/answering posts, I will post another topic about airsoft that I hope will show you guys some of the stronger points of airsoft that you may be very interested in.

Wow, I killed this thread with 2 WOT. My sincere apologies fellas. If anyone wants to ask questions about airsoft, please PM Krdshrk or myself and we will be more than happy to answer your questions. (I can only speak for myself, but Krdshrk is a pretty stand up and nice guy, so I can only imagine that he would as well)

Bare Minimal Costs to get into Paintball: $515 ($237 w/ only 4000 rnds) This includes: - reburbished gun (just the gun) ($35) - 2 Co2 Tanks ($25.98) - 200 rnd hopper ($4.99) - 20k rnds (or 4k if you go with the $237 number) (20k = $349.99 2k = $39.99) - Paintball mask ($17.95) - Chest protector ($29.95) - Neck protector ($6.95) - Tube belt (3 tubes) for extra ammo ($19.95) (also comes with 3 ammo tubes for free) - Gloves ($9.95) This does not include any other gear, like the paintball specialized pants, shirts, gun cases, barrel blockers, .and I went with the cheapest possible products. Airsoft BMC: $368 (again, low end essentials) - Gun Muzzle Velocity: 350FPS; Magazine Capacity: 600 rounds; Package Includes: Gun, magazine, battery, charger, sling, manual, cleaning rod ($109.95) - Extra battery ($29) - Better charger (most chargers that come with guns are crap) ($28) - Chest rig (holds 3 magazine pouches (6 mags total) 2 utility pouches 1 radio pouch 1 miscellaneous pouch ($19.99) - 20k rounds of ammo ($46) - Goggles (full seal) ($20) - 1 Hicap magazine (600rnds) ($20) - 5 pack Midcap Magazines (110 rnds each) ($45) - Gun bag ($25) - Gloves ($9.99) Again, this is bare minimal and low end stuff compared. Keep in mind the ammo prices, though, that is key. Thats where airsoft just dominates as far as expenses are concerned. PB Ammo: 20k = $349.99 2k = $39.99 AS Ammo: 20k = $46 .00 5k = $11.50 In both cases, I didn't factor in full cammies/paintball uniform gear, boots, hydration carriers, or other personally chosen equipment. I will not that you dont need the chest or neck protector for paintball, but it is rare that I see people without them. Also, average game costs = $30-50 for airsoft, not sure how much it is for paintball. In the end, airsoft is a LOT cheaper, and the rest of my opinion is bias. (about game play and approaches to the game)

Let me add my bit here, as I also play a lot of airsoft, and with KrdShrk on quite a few occasions. Airsoft is currently legal. Reason being: you can sell them (legally) without needing a FID card. Not to mention that there are production companies similar to paintball that have to be insured, legally, and they are. There will always be legal battles, mainly due to kids or people lacking a few chromosomes using them in public. That said, all airsoft guns need an orange tip, legally. That said, I have spoken to many police officers and lawyers about this, and there really isn't any knowledge about them to classify them as illegal. Airsoft guns shoot a 6mm plastic bb using either Co2, Green Gas (pure propane mixed with silicone), or aircompression. Generally the baseline weight for a bb is .20g. That said, you find a lot of .12g at the big places like Dicks or what have you. If you are seriously interested in airsoft, stay away from those places for anything related to airsoft. Also, you have to keep in mind how much damage these things can (or more realistically, can't) do. A typical 9mm bullet has 583 joules of energy, where as the average airsoft bb has about 1-1.5 joules of energy. That said, as long as you are wearing ANZI rated goggles, you should be fine as long as you keep your mouth shut. Ideally you should wear a paintball mask or something to cover your face, but *many* dont, and that is fine if you are willing to accept the consequences. I have been hit in the face more times then I can count, and at times it can hurt pretty bad, but nothing that is serious in the slightest. I will say you can come across mesh goggles, not lensed ones, and you must stay away from these. BBs can splinter very easily on these, and I know 2 people who are now blind in one eye due to wearing this type of goggle. BBs can penetrate skin, but it is rare. In our local community, we have rules and such that have been very effective at avoiding this. Basically minimum engagement (generally 15-25 feet no-shoot area) rules fix it depending on the power of the gun. Pricey: It can be a bit pricey to get into, but after that its one of the cheapest sports out there. You can get a decent clone or low end (note: dicks guns are basically the lowest end, and useless unless you dont want to play in big games or you just want to plink around) gun for about $100-175 if you know where to look. Some guns actually get more expensive than there real steel (what airsofters call real guns) counterparts (Systema guns cost in the order of $1300-$1500) but thats not the norm. A good gun with decent power costs about $200-400. Typically you need cammies, anzi rated eye protection, boots, a gun, battery, charger, magazines, and ammo. Thats about it. Again, it can be expensive to get into, but after that its cheap as hell. Gun Prices: low: $100-175 Mid:$200-400 High:$400-750 Luxury: $800-1600 Average is about $250 Ammo: 5000 rnds can cost about $12-20; 20,000 rnds: $40-60; but this is all depending upon the weight and company. Firepower is basically K-mart brand, not good at all for high end guns. 2000 rnds for painball: $40-70. 20,000 rnds: $350-500 So there is the big difference in price. Remember also that airsoft is mainly battery powered, not Co2, so you don't have to worry about that, either. Not to mention you dont need all of the other absurd equipment associated with paintball. So how do you know if you hit someone? Its based off of honor. We weed out the cheaters pretty quick in our community, but they still exist, as they do in paintball (wipers). Basically when you get hit, you YELL "HIT!" until you are no longer being fired at, and bring out a "Dead rag" which is a red piece of cloth that lets everyone know you were hit. Next post is a general break down of minimal costs to get into and play each.

Thanks for all of the advice guys, really appreciate all of the different points of views Im reading here.

According to Sig the 556 IS gas, the 516 is piston. I linked it.

Im in for tactical/strategy lead unless someone down here is more qualified. KrdShrk can vouch for me. - 5 years USMC, HOD as E-5 - SRT training - EVOC Qualified (expired) - Basic and Advanced Scout training - Tactical CQB trained - Strong background/foundation on Tactics for CQB and Field, no quals or certs yet (working on that) - Expert Marksmen Qualified in the USMC with the M16A2 (50 - 500yds) - 15+ styles of martial arts/combative arts training Future: - Dynamic Pistol Course - Sig Pistol Courses - Sig Pistol Instructor - Urban Escape and Evasion - Urban Survival - Winter Scout - Wilderness Survival - Tracker Curriculum Looking great so far, right off the bat we have Medical and Combat experience

To be honest, I've only ever shot one shot gun, and that was an Automatic Benelli in the military. Ideally though, I would suppose a pistol grip pump action, and I would probably go with rifle like sights

Whereas I appreciate the input, what I am looking for is a comparison chart on all of the specs. Is one available?

See notes below. I think Im going to agree with you on this. No need in having that many rifles of basically the same caliber, anyway. Will do, thanks for the advice. Are they as accurate/dependable? Nato Chambered and Civilian chambered are different, and this can cause issues with firing. The Nato jacket is thicker, IRC. I could be wrong though. This is a good point. Going to have to go with this logic. See notes below on this one. Mall ninja? I just like to be thorough. I don't just skirt around on basic ideas or generalities. I wanted to put everything I was thinking out there so you guys could point me in the right direction. Also, my cat killed my laptop, and I have been busy with college and training. So now Im back I understand what you mean with the new systems, though, the ACR is sweet in concept, but at 9+lbs and an awkward stock system Im not to keen on it, yet. I was stationed in MCAS New River (Right next to Camp Lejuene) and was only deployed once, to Djibouti Africa no less. Finally, unless they have failed to update their site, the 556 is Gas Operated, and the 516 is Piston. In all variations the 556 is gas, and the 516 is piston. So if there is something I am missing please let me know. Go to the specifications section in the links below: Sig 556 Company Information 516 Company info

Im looking for a shotgun comparison thread or chart, for tactical/personal/home defense shotguns. So far I've come down to either Mossberg or Benelli, but nothing in the way of models. Can anyone point me in the right direction?

Prepping is easy, just go to the dollar store or local farmers market for the little stuff like tape, IFAK, rope, candles, ect. Most items are fairly easy to come by now.

Just went to the site, they claim the 556 is gas operated, not gas driven piston? Edit: You meant the 516, and I just got a chub

I am looking to get a few new guns, 2 or 3 rifles, 1 shot gun, and maybe a few pistols. My questions are on the rifles and shot guns. Let me start with giving you my purpose. I am beginning my collection for home/self defense purposes, but with a SHTF preparation in mind. Do I think that it will ever happen? I give it about a 50/50 chance within the next 10 years. But, that is a debate for another time, and not on topic. Just a way of helping you guys help me. Rifles: I am looking for a Piston operated rifle, ideally of the AR variants. Anyone have any advice on what models to seek out and what models to avoid? The only ones I've seen are the ACR and the impossible to find HK417. Ideally I would like a 5.56 nato round capability, not a regular .223/5.56 (cartridge differences, power and such) Considered so far: - HK417 - ACR I also want a bolt action .223 or .308 rifle. Probably going with the .223 since ammo would be easier to come by. Keep in mind that this is going to be for hunting, either this year or in a SHTF situation. Considered so far, but not very knowledgeable on specs: - Remington 700 XCR II - M40A3 (I see these occasionally, I was wondering how you would check authenticity, and yes, I know its a modded 700) - R700 SPS - R700 VTR This will not be a hunting shotgun purchase, yet. This will be for home defense as well. All I know about shot guns are the automatic Benelli's I used in the USMC, and they kicked some ass. But for this application, I'm pretty sure I dont need a shotgun. The barrel should be short (legally) though, and I'm not looking for extended round capacity. It should also be noted that I prefer corrosion resistant guns, like the XCR. Not a must, but a preference. Eventually I plan on getting 3 Glocks as Back up guns to my main pistols. I already have a Sig 226 9mm and a Kimber Raptor Pro II 1911. I plan on getting a .40 at some point or a revolver with some personality(ie power). Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Also, Ill have some contacts look into that guy. He seems fishy but part of the specops/blackops community is the fact that they are anonymous, unless they train/work together. So chances are they might not know eachother. Either way, I always BG anyone training martial/combative arts.

I want to do MDTS but I think Sept might be bad, and on top of that sept is the only thing listed in NJ for a few months. Ill see what I can do, and look into gun for hire. Anyone hear anything about the courses ran at HarborSite?

That thing looks like a shemale. You think its sexy as hell until the camera pans down, and then youre just confused and feel violated.

I am looking for training courses to get started with my tactical education. MDTS is the only one Ive found in NJ that holds anything of interest so far, the next closest being in PA (Sig Sauer Academy). I have considered going to Tactical Response, but that is a bit of a hike. Does anyone have any suggestions for me? It should be noted I plan on going to join the PD and eventually SWAT, and I have experience in the USMC with general tactics, some minor SRT training (while I was an MP) and other basic courses. Courses Im interested in: - Non-Lethal Combat Techiniques/Tools - Defensive/Combative Pistol - Defensive/Combative Carbine - Defensive/Combative Shotgun - CQB Pistol/Carbine/Shot Gun - Shooting on the move - SERE - Wilderness Survival (only know of Onpointtactical) - Any Armor courses - Urban Surival - Scout Training - Tracker Training - Edged Weapon Fighting - HPR sniping

Self/Home defense. *some* target shooting.